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RE: Memo - 7/21/2008 6:05:27 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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Ian,

You're right, the layout could be improved. If you saw what I started with (inherited from CWIF), though, (smaller font size and absolutely no white space) ...

I just threw in the flag at the end where I had room.

I need a long wide panel for the Resource Locations, so there is a strong visual imperative to make the Summary Panel the same width.

The buttons are almost certainly going to change since CWIF used "Aviod a hex/sea area" to determine the path from a resource to a factory; and that design decision received more criticism from the players than any other element of CWIF. Although, I haven't worked on a replacement design yet.

I would like the Insert Map and Resouce Locations panel to be as big as possible.
---
I'll play around with the layout some more this morning.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 1291

RE: Memo - 7/21/2008 6:06:18 PM

Froonp

Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline

There are a lot of numbers here.
A few of them, the most significant and important ones, should be highlighted either by another color, or simply by being bold.

For example :
Production Multiple.
Production Points after SB
Build Points Available.
Oil Resources Saved (well, I don't know if this is this one, but the one that shows how many Oil you will have saved AFTER production is important to know -- the one before is not really important, as either it is a saved oil or a printed oil, but this has the same effect to it is unimportant to know)
Build Points saved.

"Point" should be added beside "Production", so that it reads "Production Point" instead of "Production". "Production" is vague, and "Production Point" is something that is defined in the rules.

Write "Oil" instead of "Oil Resources". This takes room for un-needed information IMO.
Same for normal Resources, write "Resources" instead of "Other Resources". Better, use "RP", for Resource Points.

Also, what are the "Saved Build Points Used" ? This form is before production is done, so you don't know how many are used.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 1292

RE: Memo - 7/21/2008 6:19:40 PM

meisterchow

Posts: 284
Joined: 12/12/2007
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Ooooooh, I cannot wait to get my grubby little hands on this game!!!! Again, Steve, you are doing a fantastic job of compiling important information into readable formats for players.

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Post #: 1293

RE: Memo - 7/21/2008 7:42:22 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

Here is today's first revision (from Brute Force).

I still have a few visual touchups to do, but I was able to increase the number of locations visible at one time to 10.

The list of locations needs to be sorted, and sortable by the player.

The label for Newly Saved (Oil Points) should be changed to Being Saved. I want to look into how that is different from Controlled.

I really haven't examined the code in detail to see where these numbers come from, though I have run through all the calculations for generating production and build points.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 1294

RE: Memo - 7/21/2008 8:26:30 PM

Froonp

Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here is today's first revision (from Brute Force).

I still have a few visual touchups to do, but I was able to increase the number of locations visible at one time to 10.

The list of locations needs to be sorted, and sortable by the player.

The label for Newly Saved (Oil Points) should be changed to Being Saved. I want to look into how that is different from Controlled.

I really haven't examined the code in detail to see where these numbers come from, though I have run through all the calculations for generating production and build points.

This is an immense progress to me !!!
Now things are clear in the upper part, with the bold headings !!!!

Congratulations !

I just don't like very much the icon for the uncontrolled resources. What does pressing this button will display ?

Also, and this is true for all forms where flags are used as buttons, it would be more beautiful, and the players would understand immediately that the flags are buttons, if the flags had a bottom & right shadow.

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Post #: 1295

RE: Memo - 7/21/2008 8:41:08 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here is today's first revision (from Brute Force).

I still have a few visual touchups to do, but I was able to increase the number of locations visible at one time to 10.

The list of locations needs to be sorted, and sortable by the player.

The label for Newly Saved (Oil Points) should be changed to Being Saved. I want to look into how that is different from Controlled.

I really haven't examined the code in detail to see where these numbers come from, though I have run through all the calculations for generating production and build points.

This is an immense progress to me !!!
Now things are clear in the upper part, with the bold headings !!!!

Congratulations !

I just don't like very much the icon for the uncontrolled resources. What does pressing this button will display ?

Also, and this is true for all forms where flags are used as buttons, it would be more beautiful, and the players would understand immediately that the flags are buttons, if the flags had a bottom & right shadow.

Well, I thought about using just a solid white flag for uncontrolled resources (held by neutral minor countries) but that didn't seem quite right. I am open to sugestions, ... and examples (BMP 24 bit color, 84 pixels wide by 56 pixels high).

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 1296

RE: Memo - 7/21/2008 8:43:06 PM

Norman42

Posts: 244
Joined: 2/9/2008
From: Canada
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I would just put the resource symbol on a white flag for uncontrolled.

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Post #: 1297

RE: Memo - 7/21/2008 8:54:03 PM

Froonp

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From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Norman42

I would just put the resource symbol on a white flag for uncontrolled.

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Post #: 1298

RE: Memo - 7/21/2008 8:56:23 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Norman42

I would just put the resource symbol on a white flag for uncontrolled.

Since oil resources are also shown, perhaps non-oil and oil images side-by-side?

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 1299

MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/21/2008 8:59:40 PM

Froonp

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From: Marseilles, France
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Or :

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Post #: 1300

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/21/2008 9:03:53 PM

Froonp

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From: Marseilles, France
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or...

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Post #: 1301

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/21/2008 9:04:34 PM

Froonp

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From: Marseilles, France
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Or...

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Post #: 1302

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/21/2008 9:05:20 PM

lomyrin

Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
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I was not too happy with your first versions of the form but now it has improved a great deal and it is looking very good.

Lars

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Post #: 1303

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/21/2008 10:52:26 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

I was not too happy with your first versions of the form but now it has improved a great deal and it is looking very good.

Lars

My first attempt is rarely the final version. People point out weaknesses and then I can work on buffing and polishing.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 1304

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/21/2008 11:43:51 PM

Taxman66

Posts: 1665
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Columbia, MD. USA
Status: offline

I'd consider adding "Neutral" or "Uncontrolled" either under the button or as a transparent text over the button.

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Post #: 1305

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/21/2008 11:52:23 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

I'd consider adding "Neutral" or "Uncontrolled" either under the button or as a transparent text over the button.

Neutral doesn't work since some resources are owned by neutral countries and shipped to major powers that are at war (e.g., Swedish resources).

I don't like Uncontrolled as a label because it is 4 syllables, but it is the most accurate adjective I've been able to come up with.

==============
Second version from today (from the start of Global War, so Vichy France does not exist). While more comments are welcome, I consider this done, by the way.

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< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 7/21/2008 11:54:09 PM >

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Steve

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Post #: 1306

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/21/2008 11:54:41 PM

terje439

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*edited*

< Message edited by terje439 -- 7/22/2008 12:45:23 AM >

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Post #: 1307

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/22/2008 12:26:09 AM

Plainian

Posts: 212
Joined: 9/22/2006
From: Dundee in Scotland
Status: offline

New layout looks good. Its layed out in a logical way which makes sense and you can easily follow. Only thing I don't like is the "Total Resources" section. It looks a bit lost where it is? I like the way that the national flag is on the left and the factory information is directly under it. Sort of like national information. Is there any way of moving the Total Resources heading and figure under this as well?

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Post #: 1308

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/22/2008 1:42:47 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian

New layout looks good. Its layed out in a logical way which makes sense and you can easily follow. Only thing I don't like is the "Total Resources" section. It looks a bit lost where it is? I like the way that the national flag is on the left and the factory information is directly under it.�Sort of like national information. Is there any way of moving�the Total Resources heading and figure under this as well?�

I seriuously thought about it. There isn't room without making things look squished though.

On the other hand, there are 2 good reasona for placing it where it is: (1) it is arguably the most important number, so giving it is own place with a lot of space around it is good, and (2) it is a sum of oil & non-oil resources, which are in the two columns above and to its left.

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Post #: 1309

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/22/2008 2:38:06 AM

Orm

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From: Sweden
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I would like the Build Points Available in bold since that may be the most important piece of information on the form.

-B

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Post #: 1310

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/22/2008 3:13:20 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I would like the Build Points Available in bold since that may be the most important piece of information on the form.

-B

Ok. Mainly because it is the number that is used by the next form in the sequence of play (Production).

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Post #: 1311

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/22/2008 1:58:40 PM

Neilster

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Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
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As a suggestion, how about "Free resources"?

Cheers, Neilster

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Post #: 1312

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/22/2008 3:33:30 PM

bredsjomagnus

Posts: 141
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Sweden
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Nice form but...

I think it would be better if it, under the action column, said for example "2/2 used", "0/1 used" instead of, as it is now, "2 unused". That would make it easier to get the "factory situation".

Magnus

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Post #: 1313

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/22/2008 6:36:13 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bredsjomagnus

Nice form but...

I think it would be better if it, under the action column, said for example "2/2 used", "0/1 used" instead of, as it is now, "2 unused". That would make it easier to get the "factory situation".

Magnus

I have some extra room for that panel so I think I will make the Action column wider.

That will let me have the entry read: "2 of 2 Producing", "1 of 3 Producing", "0 of 1 Producing".

This presents the information as a positive. 'Unused' is slightly harder to understand and visually looks similar to 'Used'.

I prefer "0 of 1" instead of 0/1, which requires the player to interpret what the slash means.

Thank you for pointing out this weakness.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 1314

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/22/2008 7:40:19 PM

YohanTM2

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Joined: 10/7/2002
From: Toronto
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Dormant?

Idle?

Free?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

I'd consider adding "Neutral" or "Uncontrolled" either under the button or as a transparent text over the button.

Neutral doesn't work since some resources are owned by neutral countries and shipped to major powers that are at war (e.g., Swedish resources).

I don't like Uncontrolled as a label because it is 4 syllables, but it is the most accurate adjective I've been able to come up with.

==============
Second version from today (from the start of Global War, so Vichy France does not exist). While more comments are welcome, I consider this done, by the way.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 1315

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/22/2008 10:24:50 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yohan

Dormant?

Idle?

Free?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66
I'd consider adding "Neutral" or "Uncontrolled" either under the button or as a transparent text over the button.

Neutral doesn't work since some resources are owned by neutral countries and shipped to major powers that are at war (e.g., Swedish resources).

I don't like Uncontrolled as a label because it is 4 syllables, but it is the most accurate adjective I've been able to come up with.

Thanks, but ...

I'm just hard to please I guess.

Some major powers have more resources than factories, or they are unable to set up convoy pipelines to carry all their resources to factories, so those resources are not used. Players might interpret Dormant, or Idle as including those resources.

Free just has many possible interpretations which are not what is intended.

I am resigned to using Uncontrolled (perhaps I'll get use to it).

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 1316

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/22/2008 11:31:07 PM

sajbalk

Posts: 264
Joined: 7/11/2005
From: Davenport, Iowa
Status: offline

What is the category under build points for "no path" indicate?

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Post #: 1317

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/23/2008 12:03:34 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

What is the category under build points for "no path" indicate?

I don't know.

I will have to read through the code to see how CWIF calculated this number. Then maybe I can figure out what the implied restriction on spending saved build points is all about.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 1318

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/23/2008 1:11:56 AM

Orm

Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Thanks, but ...

I'm just hard to please I guess.

Some major powers have more resources than factories, or they are unable to set up convoy pipelines to carry all their resources to factories, so those resources are not used. Players might interpret Dormant, or Idle as including those resources.

Free just has many possible interpretations which are not what is intended.

I am resigned to using Uncontrolled (perhaps I'll get use to it).