RE: THE THREAD!!!

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> RE: THE THREAD!!!

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 9:39:15 PM

bobogoboom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus
If you havn't yet picked it up, i'd highly recommend Masse's "Castles of Steel" In addition to analysis of Jellicoe and his leadership, it also covers the other major players and how naval strategy developed and played out during the war.

great book i am about a quarter of the way through it. i want to read dreadnought next.

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Post #: 3511

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 9:45:18 PM

thegreatwent

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I have enjoyed both Massie's books. Currently I am reading "The Rules of the Game" by Andrew Gordon. It is dry compared to Massie but the book seems well done.
The Canopus was not a dreadnought and was too slow. A true dreadnought with the fleet would have put the ball in Spee's court IMO.

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Post #: 3512

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 9:45:33 PM

Nikademus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus
If you havn't yet picked it up, i'd highly recommend Masse's "Castles of Steel" In addition to analysis of Jellicoe and his leadership, it also covers the other major players and how naval strategy developed and played out during the war.

great book i am about a quarter of the way through it. i want to read dreadnought next.

Dreadnought is also excellent. I devoured the pages. Amazingly interesting history of the close knit and complicated relationships all the royal houses had with each other and how it all cascaded into what became WWI.

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Post #: 3513

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 9:46:09 PM

Terminus

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This was a proper, old-school Threadite discussion. Had he been here, Robert would have been proud.

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Post #: 3514

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 9:49:10 PM

bobogoboom

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that or he would of had a heart attack because i started a normal rational discussion about something other than alcohol

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Post #: 3515

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 9:51:11 PM

thegreatwent

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Bobo, you constantly make me laugh out loud. And yes you have gone contrary to your stereotype.

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Post #: 3516

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 9:51:54 PM

bobogoboom

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i try to bring a little humor to the thread.

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Post #: 3517

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 9:53:28 PM

anarchyintheuk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thegreatwent

The Canopus was not a dreadnought and was too slow. A true dreadnought with the fleet would have put the ball in Spee's court IMO.

It still had big guns and the decision would still have been Speer's to engage. Oddly, had the Canopus joined Craddock it would have been very similar to an incident in WW2 w/ S&G's descendent's veering off vs. engaging one of the R classes.

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Post #: 3518

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 9:53:33 PM

Terminus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus
If you havn't yet picked it up, i'd highly recommend Masse's "Castles of Steel" In addition to analysis of Jellicoe and his leadership, it also covers the other major players and how naval strategy developed and played out during the war.

great book i am about a quarter of the way through it. i want to read dreadnought next.

Dreadnought is also excellent. I devoured the pages. Amazingly interesting history of the close knit and complicated relationships all the royal houses had with each other and how it all cascaded into what became WWI.

I'm really glad I read "Castles of Steel". It cured me of my hero-worshipping of Churchill.

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Post #: 3519

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 9:54:48 PM

anarchyintheuk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus
If you havn't yet picked it up, i'd highly recommend Masse's "Castles of Steel" In addition to analysis of Jellicoe and his leadership, it also covers the other major players and how naval strategy developed and played out during the war.

great book i am about a quarter of the way through it. i want to read dreadnought next.

Dreadnought is also excellent. I devoured the pages. Amazingly interesting history of the close knit and complicated relationships all the royal houses had with each other and how it all cascaded into what became WWI.

I'm really glad I read "Castles of Steel". It cured me of my hero-worshipping of Churchill.

Dardanelles didn't?

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Post #: 3520

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 9:55:04 PM

Nikademus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thegreatwent

I have enjoyed both Massie's books. Currently I am reading "The Rules of the Game" by Andrew Gordon. It is dry compared to Massie but the book seems well done.
The Canopus was not a dreadnought and was too slow. A true dreadnought with the fleet would have put the ball in Spee's court IMO.

Right, Canopus was an old Pre-Dreadnought and the very reason she was there was to bolster Craddock's aged (and somewhat decrepid) old armored cruisers. While not fit for the battleline anymore (which was pretty much the case for all pre_Dreads though it took until after Jutland for Scheer to finally come to that conclusion), her 4 old 12inch guns would have given Spee pause. Spee could also have outrun a Dreadnought battleship as well so using an old PBB of which the UK had the largest # (enough that some could be used as mine bumpers), made perfect sense. Spee however could not outrun a BC and thats what doomed him.

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Post #: 3521

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 9:58:49 PM

Nikademus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Dardanelles didn't?

Alan Moorehead's Gallipoli is a good choice for that particular battle. Don't see Churchill as a bad guy here. The idea almost succeeded initially and then later after the bog down....another golden opp reared it's head but was wasted. Fault must be shared in part by Kitchener who initially refused army help...then later by the local CinC who's hands off approach helped throw the campaign away. One must credit Kemel though for his decisive leadership on the Turkish side.

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Post #: 3522

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 9:59:16 PM

bobogoboom

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From: Dallas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus
If you havn't yet picked it up, i'd highly recommend Masse's "Castles of Steel" In addition to analysis of Jellicoe and his leadership, it also covers the other major players and how naval strategy developed and played out during the war.

great book i am about a quarter of the way through it. i want to read dreadnought next.

Dreadnought is also excellent. I devoured the pages. Amazingly interesting history of the close knit and complicated relationships all the royal houses had with each other and how it all cascaded into what became WWI.

I'm really glad I read "Castles of Steel". It cured me of my hero-worshipping of Churchill.

Dardanelles didn't?

for me it was his complete arrogance and him making all is decisions on the assumption that the englishman was so far superior to everyone else. he got a hell of a lot of people killed with that attitude.

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Post #: 3523

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 10:06:31 PM

anarchyintheuk

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From: Dallas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Dardanelles didn't?

Alan Moorehead's Gallipoli is a good choice for that particular battle. Don't see Churchill as a bad guy here. The idea almost succeeded initially and then later after the bog down....another golden opp reared it's head but was wasted. Fault must be shared in part by Kitchener who initially refused army help...then later by the local CinC who's hands off approach helped throw the campaign away. One must credit Kemel though for his decisive leadership on the Turkish side.

Good points. I tend to think of that campaign as a go big or stay at home kind of campaign. It might have worked if they went big with the initial attack. Once they didn't, they should have stayed at home.

Does Gallipoli go into any detail on why Hamilton was chosen?

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Post #: 3524

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 10:14:38 PM

Nikademus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Does Gallipoli go into any detail on why Hamilton was chosen?

I'll have to double check.....IIRC i think it was the typical reason in the UK Army....."seniority" After that...Kitchiner seemed to have a good opinion of him and at the time Kitchiner's word was golden and his power near absolute (where army matters were concerned at least)

Hamilton again....IIRC was compentant enough, but his major failing was that he didn't want to step on anybody's toes....and believed in a hands off management style that was again, typically British...i.e. he would offer advice and ideas as "suggestions" rather than "orders" which left his subordinates free to dismiss or take. This same issue came up in WWII in the Desert with Auchenlick as well. Unfortunately in the case of Galipoli, some of Hamilton's corp/divisional commanders were very poor.

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Post #: 3525

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 10:16:19 PM

VSWG

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Keep those book recommendations coming, guys! I know nothing about this topic (naval warfare in WW1), what is the best intro?

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Post #: 3526

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 10:18:47 PM

anarchyintheuk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Does Gallipoli go into any detail on why Hamilton was chosen?

I'll have to double check.....IIRC i think it was the typical reason in the UK Army....."seniority" After that...Kitchiner seemed to have a good opinion of him and at the time Kitchiner's word was golden and his power near absolute (where army matters were concerned at least)

Hamilton again....IIRC was compentant enough, but his major failing was that he didn't want to step on anybody's toes....and believed in a hands off management style that was again, typically British...i.e. he would offer advice and ideas as "suggestions" rather than "orders" which left his subordinates free to dismiss or take. This same issue came up in WWII in the Desert with Auchenlick as well. Unfortunately in the case of Galipoli, some of Hamilton's corp/divisional commanders were very poor.

Looks like another book goes on the wish list. Y'all have a good night.

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Post #: 3527

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 10:21:37 PM

thegreatwent

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In addition to Massies's books I can recommend A Naval History of World War I by Paul Halpern, Jutland 1916 by Nigel Steel and Peter Hart, Coronel and the Falklands by Geoffrey Bennett and The Rules of the Game by Andrew Gordon. Have fun

.

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Post #: 3528

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 10:28:24 PM

VSWG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thegreatwent

In addition to Massies's books I can recommend A Naval History of World War I by Paul Halpern, Jutland 1916 by Nigel Steel and Peter Hart, Coronel and the Falklands by Geoffrey Bennett and The Rules of the Game by Andrew Gordon. Have fun.

I will.

Thanks!

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Post #: 3529

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 10:39:03 PM

bobogoboom

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i find ww1 far more interesting than ww2. there is less black and white a lot more gray and a lot of the people on both sides of the war running stuff were related. it's very interesting. plus it is the end of a historical time period where ww2 is more of a beginning.

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Post #: 3530

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 11:33:24 PM

niceguy2005

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Xoing

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Post #: 3531

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 11:37:34 PM

bobogoboom

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Today's Nik sighting.
it appears nik is in fear for his life the ducks are mad about the fate of their cusion rubber and have created this to attack nik.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 3532

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 11:38:04 PM

bobogoboom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

Xoing

KaBoing!

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Post #: 3533

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 11:49:09 PM

USSAmerica

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From: Graham, NC, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus
If you havn't yet picked it up, i'd highly recommend Masse's "Castles of Steel" In addition to analysis of Jellicoe and his leadership, it also covers the other major players and how naval strategy developed and played out during the war.

great book i am about a quarter of the way through it. i want to read dreadnought next.

Castles of Steel is the only source I have read to date on the action at sea during WWI. I found the book to be a great read, and would highly recommend it. I plan to start in on some other WWI reading at some point.

Hmmm... maybe after some more rum.

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Post #: 3534

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 11:51:20 PM

niceguy2005

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

Today's Nik sighting.
it appears nik is in fear for his life the ducks are mad about the fate of their cusion rubber and have created this to attack nik.

it looks like a trojan ducky.

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Post #: 3535

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 11:52:52 PM

USSAmerica

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Post conch fritters and rum punch on the beach for dinner - Tithe.

I hope everyone is well. I'm holding down the fort here in paradise.

If anyone has a Brother Mynok sighting, please let him know that I have connectivity down here, and have my laptop with me, but alas, I have no turn in my inbox.

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"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

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Post #: 3536

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 11:54:57 PM

niceguy2005

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quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

Post conch fritters and rum punch on the beach for dinner - Tithe.

I hope everyone is well. I'm holding down the fort here in paradise.

If anyone has a Brother Mynok sighting, please let him know that I have connectivity down here, and have my laptop with me, but alas, I have no turn in my inbox.

Then how can it possibly be paradise??

_____________________________

Artwork graciously provided by Dixie

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Post #: 3537

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 11:58:15 PM

VSWG

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Post #: 3538

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/24/2008 11:58:35 PM

pasternakski

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

i try to bring a little humor to the thread.

And you do. Very little.

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Post #: 3539

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2008 12:00:46 AM

bobogoboom

Posts: 3799
Joined: 2/13/2006
From: Dallas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

Post conch fritters and rum punch on the beach for dinner - Tithe.

I hope everyone is well. I'm holding down the fort here in paradise.

If anyone has a Brother Mynok sighting, please let him know that I have connectivity down here, and have my laptop with me, but alas, I have no turn in my inbox.

Then how can it possibly be paradise??

no stress that the turn brings

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I feel like I'm Han Solo, and you're Chewie, and she's Ben Kenobi, and we're in that bar.
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Post #: 3540

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