Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines.

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines.

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> TOAW III Support >> Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines.

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines. - 7/24/2008 8:22:45 PM

rasmus

Posts: 14
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

I have just had a the rather unpleasant experience of having enemy reinforcements arrive behind my lines. I am very sure that they arrived in hexes under my control. (I would post a screenshot, but I am currently unable to use my screengrabbing program.) According to the manual, this should not be allowed.

From the briefing:

Land Units
Most Land units will always appear at the location given in the
Formation Report, if that location is available. A location is only
considered to be available if it is either friendly-controlled or
located on a map edge. If for some reason the location is not
available, units scheduled to appear on a map edge will instead
appear at some other available location along the same map
edge, within two hexes. Units scheduled to appear away from a
map edge will only enter when the location becomes friendlycontrolled.
Is there a bug or have I missed something?

Post #: 1

RE: Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines. - 7/25/2008 1:20:52 AM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline

I don't know what your exact situation is, but I had the same thing occur in FitE. With the 'front' well east of this location, all of sudden I noticed some enemy activity in the area of this screen shot. I sent some mp's to investigate and found that a guerilla unit had converted a 'regeneration' hex and an entire Soviet army had appeared. I don't think it's a bug, as the scenario has to be designed that way (although this situation can be designed that way unintentionally). In my opinion, I don't like it.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to rasmus)

Post #: 2

RE: Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines. - 7/25/2008 3:10:50 AM

Silvanski

Posts: 2506
Joined: 1/23/2005
From: Belgium, residing in TX-USA
Status: offline

This can be solved by giving all units in a formation eligible to reconstitute a fixed reconstitution hex well behind friendly lines, in FitE that can be around Gorky

_____________________________

The TOAW Redux Dude

(in reply to sPzAbt653)

Post #: 3

RE: Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines. - 7/25/2008 6:18:54 AM

Boonierat

Posts: 539
Joined: 11/11/2003
From: The Boonies
Status: offline

As far as I can tell the only units able to enter in enemy-controlled hexes are guerillas.

_____________________________

(in reply to Silvanski)

Post #: 4

RE: Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines. - 7/25/2008 1:24:23 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Boonierat

As far as I can tell the only units able to enter in enemy-controlled hexes are guerillas.

Yes Boonie, but the bloody guerillas convert the hex ownership and then the hexes are elligible to 'regenerate' units. You can have an entire NVA division, or more, pop up in occupied territory!

'This can be solved by giving all units in a formation eligible to reconstitute a fixed reconstitution hex well behind friendly lines, in FitE that can be around Gorky '

I thought FitE had reconstitution already fixed at Gorky ? Actually, I should look into it today and see if I can tell what the circumstances are that affect this.

(in reply to Boonierat)

Post #: 5

RE: Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines. - 7/25/2008 1:59:54 PM

Boonierat

Posts: 539
Joined: 11/11/2003
From: The Boonies
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Yes Boonie, but the bloody guerillas convert the hex ownership and then the hexes are elligible to 'regenerate' units. You can have an entire NVA division, or more, pop up in occupied territory!

Tunnels!

_____________________________

(in reply to sPzAbt653)

Post #: 6

RE: Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines. - 7/25/2008 5:14:29 PM

rasmus

Posts: 14
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

Please note that it was not a recostitution, but a scheduled reinforcement that arrived on an enemy controlled hex, without prior conversion of ownership.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Boonierat)

Post #: 7

RE: Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines. - 7/25/2008 6:17:01 PM

Boonierat

Posts: 539
Joined: 11/11/2003
From: The Boonies
Status: offline

Its only one hex away from a map edge though?

_____________________________

(in reply to rasmus)

Post #: 8

RE: Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines. - 7/25/2008 8:03:10 PM

rasmus

Posts: 14
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

Does that mean it is available?

(in reply to Boonierat)

Post #: 9

RE: Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines. - 7/25/2008 9:16:25 PM

JAMiAM

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline

When were the screenshots taken? Are you sure that the units appeared in those hexes? Or, did they appear on the map edge hexes and move to those positions? Possible, also, is that units appeared on the map edges during previous turns, converted the adjacent hexes, and later reinforcements appeared. Hard to tell with the no borders option enabled, exactly what the case is here.

(in reply to rasmus)

Post #: 10

RE: Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines. - 7/26/2008 5:23:57 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rasmus

... a scheduled reinforcement that arrived on an enemy controlled hex ...

I would have to say that there is no way this could happen. What scenario is this, and what turn ?

(in reply to rasmus)

Post #: 11

RE: Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines. - 7/26/2008 6:17:13 PM

Curtis Lemay

Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

ORIGINAL: rasmus

... a scheduled reinforcement that arrived on an enemy controlled hex ...

I would have to say that there is no way this could happen. What scenario is this, and what turn ?

Technically, it can be done, if the designer employed a "Set ownership 1/2" event.

(in reply to sPzAbt653)

Post #: 12

RE: Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines. - 7/27/2008 3:31:44 AM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

ORIGINAL: rasmus

... a scheduled reinforcement that arrived on an enemy controlled hex ...

I would have to say that there is no way this could happen. What scenario is this, and what turn ?

Technically, it can be done, if the designer employed a "Set ownership 1/2" event.

Technically then, they would be arriving in a friendly controlled hex, but good point anyway. I was thinking about urban hexes converting themselves as the only way. I'd still like to look at this scenario to see what the situation is.

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)

Post #: 13

RE: Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines. - 7/27/2008 10:11:54 AM

rasmus

Posts: 14
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

When were the screenshots taken? Are you sure that the units appeared in those hexes? Or, did they appear on the map edge hexes and move to those positions? Possible, also, is that units appeared on the map edges during previous turns, converted the adjacent hexes, and later reinforcements appeared. Hard to tell with the no borders option enabled, exactly what the case is here.

The screenshot was take at the beginning of player 1s turn. The units around the ARMBDEs has been moved to show hex ownership, but has not entered any enemy controlled hexes. The border option is enabled, but the newly arrived units only control the hex they are in. I have uploaded a screenshot from the end of my previous turn to clarify.
Game is Braunschweig 7.1 by Daniel McBride,converted from COW.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to JAMiAM)

Post #: 14

RE: Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines. - 7/27/2008 10:14:13 AM

rasmus

Posts: 14
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

I forgot to mention. No paratroopers or guerillas are in the hexes.

(in reply to rasmus)

Post #: 15

RE: Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines. - 7/27/2008 1:31:58 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline

'Game is Braunschweig 7.1 by Daniel McBride'

I don't have this scenario, can someone direct me to where I can obtain it?

(in reply to rasmus)

Post #: 16

RE: Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines. - 7/27/2008 4:21:59 PM

Curtis Lemay

Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

I have it. There are no "Set ownership" events in it.

From the looks of it, the unit that arrived is part of the 4/6th Gd Corps that arrives on turn 47. There is one unit identical to the one shown that arrives on that hex (64,1). However, the rest of the Corps (multiple divisions) should have arrived on hex 64,0 just north of it - a map edge hex. Somehow, they were blocked, but the unit away from the map edge was not.

Rasmus, was this game turn 47?

(in reply to sPzAbt653)

Post #: 17

RE: Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines. - 7/27/2008 8:11:19 PM

rasmus

Posts: 14
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

I have it. There are no "Set ownership" events in it.

From the looks of it, the unit that arrived is part of the 4/6th Gd Corps that arrives on turn 47. There is one unit identical to the one shown that arrives on that hex (64,1). However, the rest of the Corps (multiple divisions) should have arrived on hex 64,0 just north of it - a map edge hex. Somehow, they were blocked, but the unit away from the map edge was not.

Rasmus, was this game turn 47?

Yes it was.

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)

Post #: 18

RE: Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines. - 7/28/2008 4:27:50 PM

Curtis Lemay

Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

Ok. I created a test scenario with reinforcements sceduled to arrive in the 0 row and the 1 row. Sure enough, the 0 row reinforcements were blocked and the 1 row reinforcements arrived. Clearly, something got screwed up at some point. This is a bug.

Rasmus got off light. There should have been an army arriving in 64,0, instead of a division in 64,1. His opponent should be howling.

(in reply to rasmus)

Post #: 19

RE: Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines. - 7/28/2008 7:49:49 PM

rasmus

Posts: 14
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

Ok. I created a test scenario with reinforcements sceduled to arrive in the 0 row and the 1 row. Sure enough, the 0 row reinforcements were blocked and the 1 row reinforcements arrived. Clearly, something got screwed up at some point. This is a bug.

Rasmus got off light. There should have been an army arriving in 64,0, instead of a division in 64,1. His opponent should be howling.

Au contraire. I had plenty of available reserves to effect surrounds and destroy the newly arrived overstacked and unentrenched soviets while they were vulnerable. Had this not been the case it would indeed have been a major pain.

Thanks for the thorough responses.

< Message edited by rasmus -- 7/28/2008 7:50:24 PM >

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)

Post #: 20

Page: [1]

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> TOAW III Support >> Reinforcements arriving behind enemy lines.

Page: [1]