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A question about the tax thing... - 7/29/2008 12:30:49 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		Some time ago I almost bought CoI - almost, because I had the amount of money listed in store, but when I proceeded to the checkout it added some kind of tax and it suddenly turned out that I don't have enough money to buy it. I was pretty disappointed.
I have never encountered such thing when shopping online.
What's the deal with it?

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 7/29/2008 12:31:34 PM >

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RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/29/2008 12:37:50 PM   
ANZAC_Tack


Posts: 392
Joined: 7/9/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		In australia, we got  GST, 10% on all goods and services. local taxes apply with games? makes sence if its law, you are purchasing a good/service. but yes, i havent seen this before,but i have only bought 1 non local item online ever(USA).

CoI must be pretty cheap by now? didnt it go out in box form to shops? 2 word...bargain bins...

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RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/29/2008 1:01:19 PM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4605
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo
I have never encountered such thing when shopping online.


Really ?

Are there still countries without a Sales Tax / VAT or whatever it's called ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo
What's the deal with it?


VAT / Sales Tax depends on where you live - that's why an online store can only add it to your bill after it's got your shipping info, and it's never part of the advertized price.

IIRC the worst country is Sweden with 25% VAT added, and we're certainly in the top 5 with 21%

If VAT stops you from buying a game there's basically 3 things you can do :

1) Vote in another government who lowers the tax
2) Relocate to another country
3) Get a better paying job

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 3
RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/29/2008 1:28:32 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo
I have never encountered such thing when shopping online.


Really ?

Are there still countries without a Sales Tax / VAT or whatever it's called ?

I think he probably means where it's not evident on the purchasing page.

I do quite a bit of purchasing online and the "norm" is to show the sales tax with the item being purchased...not at the end of the process as Matrix has it.

(in reply to sterckxe)
Post #: 4
RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/29/2008 1:58:00 PM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4605
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
I do quite a bit of purchasing online and the "norm" is to show the sales tax with the item being purchased...not at the end of the process as Matrix has it.


Yup - but only at sites where you're "logged in", i.e. where they've got your mailing address - so the VAT can be calculated on-the-fly - same thing for S&H.

Total Price = basic price + VAT + S&H - always has been and always will.

So I'm surprised when someone tells me he was surprised by the VAT that got added - I've never known otherwise - it either gets added at the beginning of the transaction or at the end, but everyone who purchases stuff online knows it's going to be added.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

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RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/29/2008 2:59:14 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

So I'm surprised when someone tells me he was surprised by the VAT that got added

That's because VAT is almost always calculated into displayed price so that the buyer can know how money he has to have. I never had a situation when I had to pay more than listed price.

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Post #: 6
RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/29/2008 7:17:42 PM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4605
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

So I'm surprised when someone tells me he was surprised by the VAT that got added

That's because VAT is almost always calculated into displayed price so that the buyer can know how money he has to have. I never had a situation when I had to pay more than listed price.


Right - when you're logged-in at that webshop, so they know your location, hence your VAT. Amazon has this for instance. But *every* webshop I know where you don't login up front lists basic prices without VAT. Could you point me to one which magically knows my VAT rate without me being logged in ? Very curious.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

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Post #: 7
RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/29/2008 8:08:40 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		In the states there is sales taxes based on where you live and if you buy from out of state, you are not required to pay the taxes at the point of purchase. So, mail order and i-net purchases from out of state avoid the in state sales taxes. Some states don't have sales taxes at all.

Now, the state of California has one of the highest sales taxes in the USA and they have put a line item on the tax forms for a person who wants to "confess" their sins and pay the state taxes for items purchased out of state. I wonder how many people are actually doing this ?



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RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/29/2008 9:15:55 PM   
Doggie


Posts: 3244
Joined: 9/19/2001
From: Under the porch
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

Are there still countries without a Sales Tax / VAT or whatever it's called ?



Yes. I don't pay a dime in taxes for stuff I order online. Yet.


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Post #: 9
RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/29/2008 9:20:39 PM   
Zap


Posts: 3639
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline 		Did'nt you know there are no tax sinners in california?

< Message edited by Zap -- 7/29/2008 9:21:59 PM >

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RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/29/2008 10:46:33 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Well, there are online-shops billing their games solely in $ and not charging additional VAT for shipments outside US. What makes stuff considerably cheaper if you live in Eurozone.

Speaking about Gamersfront from Shrapnell here and I wonder why Matrix can't do this as well.

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Post #: 11
RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/29/2008 11:07:39 PM   
sullafelix

 

Posts: 1520
Joined: 1/11/2005
Status: offline 		Yes in the US you don't have to declare it but I know three people who it has come back to bite them in the butt. But all three were nailed for extremely large amounts of purchases through TV shopping QVC etc..

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Post #: 12
RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/30/2008 7:55:47 AM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		That's crazy. Shouldn't taxes be paid where the seller is located?

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People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

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Post #: 13
RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/30/2008 9:25:23 AM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow
Well, there are online-shops billing their games solely in $ and not charging additional VAT for shipments outside US. What makes stuff considerably cheaper if you live in Eurozone.


Yes and all those packages are very likely to be checked by the countries customs, have import and VAT taxes put on top of them and then you even have to go to your local customs office (sometimes even the next airport!), pick the package up, have to answer silly questions stand in line for an hour and pay the taxes yourself. If that is preferable, I don't know

quote:


Speaking about Gamersfront from Shrapnell here and I wonder why Matrix can't do this as well.


Our shop infrastructure and fulfillment is run by Digital River as many of you know. DR is required to collect taxes for the customs. Digital River is the leading online shop solution and fulfillment agency they do not get away with it and on top of it want to spare their overseas customers the above mentioned hazzles.

We also have no influence on how DR runs their business in this regards.

GamersFront gets away with this little snipplet, as featured by many small online shops all over the world:

"On foreign orders, in addition to our charges for shipping and handling, there may be other fees assessed, such as import fees or added taxes. These fees are beyond our control and are not the responsibility of Shrapnel Games or any of our Vendors."

This however lets the customer in the dark about the above mentioned usual customs procedures.



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Post #: 14
RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/30/2008 11:15:34 AM   
Widell


Posts: 913
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: Trollhättan, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
I do quite a bit of purchasing online and the "norm" is to show the sales tax with the item being purchased...not at the end of the process as Matrix has it.


I guess as long as you can make the site aware of which country and/or state you´re in, the full cost could be calculated prior to checkout...


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RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/30/2008 4:35:20 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

Well, there are online-shops billing their games solely in $ and not charging additional VAT for shipments outside US. What makes stuff considerably cheaper if you live in Eurozone.

Speaking about Gamersfront from Shrapnell here and I wonder why Matrix can't do this as well.


Because it would severely prejudice Digital River's ability to trade with EU citizens in future if they don't play ball - same for everybody else who has chosen to comply with the EU directive. It's purpose is actually to prevent 'unfair' competition; if the retailer of the game was EU based they have no alternative but to charge the higher price and account for the tax. They would therefore be at an immediate - and substantial - disadvantage if EU customers could buy exactly the same product in the same way (a downloaded game) from a US distributor instead, to the extent such businesses could not survive.

In the case of 'hard' goods, these can indeed get picked up at customs and that has indeed happened to me in the past with a couple of HPS titles. I think the only reason it doesn't any more is staff cuts in enforcement, certainly in the UK (I work for the 'enforcers' albeit doing something else). The other thing is that VAT registration is turnover dependent, so goods will always be available from smaller suppliers without needing to pay the VAT whether they are based inside or outside the EU.

< Message edited by Hertston -- 7/30/2008 4:37:38 PM >

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Post #: 16
RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/30/2008 5:20:21 PM   
Widell


Posts: 913
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: Trollhättan, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow
Well, there are online-shops billing their games solely in $ and not charging additional VAT for shipments outside US. What makes stuff considerably cheaper if you live in Eurozone.


One other reason is that it is most likely illegal, either on the behalf of the supplier or the customer. Also notice it is not additional VAT, it is VAT for the country/state you are shipping to, regardless of if the shipment is physical or not.

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RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/30/2008 5:36:02 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Ok, I unterstand this point. Albeit I'm missing the glory days when one could subscribe to online games as UO or Everquest and had to pay same fee as US customers, without VAT to be charged. On the other hand I don't get why european customers are not supposed to pay in USD. With the current exchange rate I consider it as a blatant disadvantage to pay € 40,99 for a game which otherwise get offered for $ 49,99.

For Gamersfront products I probably got lucky when UPS delivered to my door and I didn't get bothered by custom authority. Maybe the merchandise value was too low. :)

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Post #: 18
RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/30/2008 7:48:44 PM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4605
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow
With the current exchange rate I consider it as a blatant disadvantage to pay € 40,99 for a game which otherwise get offered for $ 49,99.


I just checked it and Matrix most recent World War 2 - Road to Victory game is $40 for the US and 26 Euros for me. Seems extremely correct to me given that at today's rate 26 Euros is $40.51

Could be wrong about it, but I think Matrix has a policy of calibrating their various prices in different currencies every 3 months - if the dollar goes up a bit in between those calibrations, us Euros win a bit, if it lowers we lose a bit. In the long run it evens out which is good enough for me.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to Lützow)
Post #: 19
RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/30/2008 11:43:46 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

On the other hand I don't get why european customers are not supposed to pay in USD. With the current exchange rate I consider it as a blatant disadvantage to pay € 40,99 for a game which otherwise get offered for $ 49,99.



So would I, but like sterckze I can't see where this is happening. Actually I calculate that, as of today, you are actually €1.33 better off paying for Kharkov in Euros and not $US (ignoring the VAT).

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RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/31/2008 12:16:09 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow
On the other hand I don't get why european customers are not supposed to pay in USD. With the current exchange rate I consider it as a blatant disadvantage to pay € 40,99 for a game which otherwise get offered for $ 49,99.


I don't think you pay your coffee in colombian Peso based on what it is worth in Colombia, right


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RE: A question about the tax thing... - 7/31/2008 12:45:48 PM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4605
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck
I don't think you pay your coffee in colombian Peso based on what it is worth in Colombia, right


I always try to pay in peanuts as it's that what I get from my boss too

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx


(in reply to Marc von Martial)
Post #: 22
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