France's surrender

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War I] >> Guns of August 1914 - 1918 >> France's surrender

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France's surrender - 8/21/2008 4:31:30 PM

EdinHouston

Posts: 100
Joined: 7/26/2008
Status: offline

I am curious about other players' experiences about what it takes to make France surrender.

I played the game solitaire quite a few times as the Germans, and it seemed like French casualties didnt matter too much. What mattered was taking their cities (assuming no food problems). In every game, I took the 3 northeastern cities (Dunkirk/Lille/Arras) for 14 points, the border forts for 17 points, and Paris and Epernay for 33 points. But in no case was that enough for France to surrender. It seemed like I needed another 10 or 15 points from Dijon, Rouen, Orleans, or Lyon. In a couple cases I had destroyed most of the french army (literally down to a few units) and France still didnt surrender until more cities fell. In a game against a human opponent, the same seemed to be true, but in a game as the TE against a human player, France surrendered after Paris fell, even though I still held Epernay, Rouen, Dijon, and everything behind that (and my casualties werent that bad, I still had around 24 french corps, mostly full-strength).

I guess I thought I had a good idea what it took to make France surrender, and that by keeping my army mainly intact I thought I could survive even if I lost Paris so long as I didnt lose more of the towns behind that (Rouen, Dijon, etc). But obviously that wasnt the case.

Also it seems like casualties play much too small of a role in determining when a nation surrenders, and that cities are the key (assuming of course that food isnt a problem). That was a surprise to me, because before I started playing the game, I would have thought that a nation whose army was mainly intact could keep fighting even if it lost some cities, whereas a nation whose army was mainly destroyed would probably surrender, even if it still held on to some key cities. Obviously that was a mistaken assumption because in GoA it seems to be the other way around.

Which leads me to some questions about morale and exhaustion:

1) does exhaustion only affect morale when you lose an exhaustion level? (ie, casualties dont affect morale continually, but rather in a large step when you lose an exhaustion level).

2) does 1 city point equal 1% of morale (ie, 1 morale point)?

3) when your exhaustion increases a level, the manual says you lose 20% of morale. I assume thats 20% of your initial 100%?

4) when a nation enters the war on your side, does it give a morale boost to your other nations? Does it give a morale decrease to opposing nations?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Ed

Post #: 1

RE: France's surrender - 8/21/2008 6:58:03 PM

FrankHunter

Posts: 2111
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

1) does exhaustion only affect morale when you lose an exhaustion level? (ie, casualties dont affect morale continually, but rather in a large step when you lose an exhaustion level).

No, its continuous. Every turn the casualties you took are added up and the effects on morale are figured.

quote:

2) does 1 city point equal 1% of morale (ie, 1 morale point)?

No, it would be if all countries had 100 morale points. So in the case of France with 75 morale points, losing 15 city vps would be 20%.

quote:

3) when your exhaustion increases a level, the manual says you lose 20% of morale. I assume thats 20% of your initial 100%

?

Yes

quote:

4) when a nation enters the war on your side, does it give a morale boost to your other nations? Does it give a morale decrease to opposing nations?

Yes and yes. And when a nation on your side surrenders it hurts your morale and helps the other side.

(in reply to EdinHouston)

Post #: 2

RE: France's surrender - 8/21/2008 8:11:01 PM

EdinHouston

Posts: 100
Joined: 7/26/2008
Status: offline

Thanks for the feedback, its very helpful.

So if France loses the three northeastern towns (-14 pts) and the four border forts (-17 points), that means they have 75 - 31 = 44 points left. Basically that means if they lose Paris (-30 points), they are down to 14 morale points, and can not afford to hit exhaustion level 1 (-15 points). And its hard for me to see how they can avoid exhaustion level 1 against a determined German advance. So if France loses Paris, they are likely to surrender, or at least be on the very brink.

Re: points from diplomacy, I assume Belgium and Luxembourg are a wash (France gets bonus morale if Germany attacks them but then loses it again when they surrender). France would lose some morale when Turkey enters the war, and maybe some more when Bulgaria enters, but would gain some morale if Italy enters. So France isnt going to get much (net) help from diplomacy, at least not in the timeframe needed if Germany pursues a 'France-first' strategy.

BTW, now I see why France surrendered in my game as the TE. I lost Paris and hit exhaustion level 1 on the same turn, and since I was at about 40 morale going into the turn, 40 - 30 - 15 = surrender ;) If Italy had entered the war, France might have been saved, at least for a while.

< Message edited by EdinHouston -- 8/21/2008 8:13:10 PM >

(in reply to FrankHunter)

Post #: 3

RE: France's surrender - 8/21/2008 8:22:16 PM

FrankHunter

Posts: 2111
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

So if France loses Paris, they are likely to surrender, or at least be on the very brink

Yes, they don't automatically surrender for losing Paris but given average circumstances it will probably bring it on.

Diplomatically, it is close to a wash but there's a random element to each so results can vary.

(in reply to EdinHouston)

Post #: 4

RE: France's surrender - 8/21/2008 8:28:01 PM

EdinHouston

Posts: 100
Joined: 7/26/2008
Status: offline

Thanks again for the help and the timely response. Much appreciated.

(in reply to FrankHunter)

Post #: 5