Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: lomyrin

Per the CWiF code Danish convoys placed in Thorshavn and remaining there after Denmark has been conquered by Germany make the Faroes CW controlled as are the convoys.  CWiF also makes them CW controlled after the Danish conquest if there were no units of any kind there.

Is this intended to simulate that the CW has some undefined small presence in the Islands ?

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ORIGINAL: brian brian
Is there enough flat ground in the Fareoes to make an airstrip there without some effort (landing an Engineer)? I'm sure there is an airport there today, but was there in WWII? What I'm getting at is maybe they could be mountain hexes to simulate that. Pictures I've seen show mostly rather forbidding Fjords combined with hilly terrain.

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ORIGINAL: Orm
Hilly terrain is not enough to be mountains. So lets make sure that there really is mountains on The Faraoes Islands first.

-Orm

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ORIGINAL: Orm

According to Wikipedia the Farao Islasds are - "The islands are rugged and rocky with some low peaks; the coasts are mostly bordered by cliffs. The highest point is Slættaratindur, 882 metres (2,894 ft) above sea level"

I can agree that there are some terrain that could count as mountain. But there is also alot of clear. So you have to decide if it is enough mountainous terrain to affect the combat enough to make it mountains.

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ORIGINAL: Froonp

I vote for the whole Islands to be mountain hexes, and for the Minor Port hex to stay Clear hex.

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ORIGINAL: Norman42

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ORIGINAL: Froonp

I vote for the whole Islands to be mountain hexes, and for the Minor Port hex to stay Clear hex.

Agreed.

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ORIGINAL: brian brian

Torshavn looks good and the rest mountains. I really doubt anyone would fight over the rest of the hexes, and especially not if a notional unit was actually in supply. Without the islands being on a zone boundary, they aren't real useful to the Germans anyway. Maybe though, in that rare game where an Admiral is in charge in Germany....these hexes will be interesting to have. Some day in MWiF I'll try a heavy naval game, when I don't have to spend six hours just getting the pieces together to start up a game of World in Flames.

That's what I thought too Orm, would make an interesting vacation, but then I love the outdoors and the north but I've never been anywhere that is treeless. I'd like to someday. I think maybe I was reading a piece in the Smithsonian magazine about the area.


Here is a different question I've never thought about before...I frequently forget this possibility on the defense. Can the defender declare Emergency HQ Supply after the attacker has announced an attack and thus significantly change the odds? I would assume so but just never thought about it until I saw the possibility in a solitaire CyberBoard game I've started up. How would it fit into the attack-decision sequence? At the Defensive HQ support phase?

If this has been worked out earlier in the thread (I think so? I can rarely get the search feature working right.) just point me to the post #s... ???

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ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian


Here is a different question I've never thought about before...I frequently forget this possibility on the defense. Can the defender declare Emergency HQ Supply after the attacker has announced an attack and thus significantly change the odds? I would assume so but just never thought about it until I saw the possibility in a solitaire CyberBoard game I've started up. How would it fit into the attack-decision sequence? At the Defensive HQ support phase?

If this has been worked out earlier in the thread (I think so? I can rarely get the search feature working right.) just point me to the post #s... ???

In CWIF (and MWIF) a player right clicks on a unit to bring up a "unit menu". If the unit is an HQ and it can provide emrgency supply, then the owner can invoke that at any time. This follows RAW; or at least I believe it does so. For PBEM it is more problemmatic.

I have some slight concern about timing here (milliseconds between the program executing the code for a land attack and the defneder making a last minute decision) and I'll examine it more closely when I redo the entire land combat sequence to support NetPlay.

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ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
In CWIF (and MWIF) a player right clicks on a unit to bring up a "unit menu". If the unit is an HQ and it can provide emrgency supply, then the owner can invoke that at any time. This follows RAW; or at least I believe it does so. For PBEM it is more problemmatic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian
Here is a different question I've never thought about before...I frequently forget this possibility on the defense. Can the defender declare Emergency HQ Supply after the attacker has announced an attack and thus significantly change the odds? I would assume so but just never thought about it until I saw the possibility in a solitaire CyberBoard game I've started up. How would it fit into the attack-decision sequence? At the Defensive HQ support phase?

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ORIGINAL: oscar72se

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian
Here is a different question I've never thought about before...I frequently forget this possibility on the defense. Can the defender declare Emergency HQ Supply after the attacker has announced an attack and thus significantly change the odds? I would assume so but just never thought about it until I saw the possibility in a solitaire CyberBoard game I've started up. How would it fit into the attack-decision sequence? At the Defensive HQ support phase?

Actually, I am not sure. But our group has always treated this in the same way as defensive HQ support. The difference being that the HQ is turned face down immediately (as opposed to ordinary HQ support where the HQ gets turned face down after Advancing After Combat). Maybe we are wrong?

Starting to get curious...

/Oscar

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ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here is today's logic puzzle in WIF rules.

1 - The Axis move naval units (A) into sea area X, where they are intercepted by Allied units. The Axis decides to fight through, so a naval combat takes place. After the first round of the naval combat, some Allied units (B) are forced to abort.

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If the aborted units move immediately, problems can arise. For instance, ...
2 - The Allied units B pass through sea area Y while aborting/returning to base, where they are intercepted by Axis units already in the sea area Y. The Allied units have to fight through, so a naval combat takes place. As a result of the first round of this naval combat, some Axis units (C) are forced to abort.

3 - What happens if the Axis units execute their abort/return to base through sea area X?

Just to give you the current status at this point:
- we are still in the Axis naval movement phase,
- the Axis units A are trying to fight through sea area X,
- we are between naval combat rounds 1 and 2 sea area X,
- the Allied units B are trying to perform their abort/return to base and are fighting their way through sea area Y,
- we are between naval combat rounds 1 and 2 in sea area Y
- the Axis units C are trying to perform their abort/return to base from sea area Y, and want to pass through sea area X.

I - As a slight simplification of this mess, I propose delaying all aborts/return to base due to combat until the end of the naval combat in the sea area (quiescence). Then at least we will know that the naval combat in sea area X isn't between rounds.

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II - I further propose that all aborts are concluded before 'normal' naval movement recommences. Which in the above example means that the Axis units A would still be in sea area X when Axis units C enter the sea area as part of their abort/return to base. Since A in in the sea area, then they might get involved in further combat when C enters. Once C completes its return to base, then B will complete its return to base, and then A can continue moving.

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ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here is today's logic puzzle in WIF rules.

1 - The Axis move naval units (A) into sea area X, where they are intercepted by Allied units. The Axis decides to fight through, so a naval combat takes place. After the first round of the naval combat, some Allied units (B) are forced to abort.

You need also to mention that the interception roll was successful, otherwise the reader might think that all interceptions are automatic.

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If the aborted units move immediately, problems can arise. For instance, ...
2 - The Allied units B pass through sea area Y while aborting/returning to base, where they are intercepted by Axis units already in the sea area Y. The Allied units have to fight through, so a naval combat takes place. As a result of the first round of this naval combat, some Axis units (C) are forced to abort.

3 - What happens if the Axis units execute their abort/return to base through sea area X?

Just to give you the current status at this point:
- we are still in the Axis naval movement phase,
- the Axis units A are trying to fight through sea area X,
- we are between naval combat rounds 1 and 2 sea area X,
- the Allied units B are trying to perform their abort/return to base and are fighting their way through sea area Y,
- we are between naval combat rounds 1 and 2 in sea area Y
- the Axis units C are trying to perform their abort/return to base from sea area Y, and want to pass through sea area X.

I - As a slight simplification of this mess, I propose delaying all aborts/return to base due to combat until the end of the naval combat in the sea area (quiescence). Then at least we will know that the naval combat in sea area X isn't between rounds.

I'd say that this is the way it is played indeed by some group playing the game. But you need to create groups of Aborting ships : Those aborted in round 1, those aborted in round 2, etc... Each group aborting separately one after the other, and not as a big group.

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II - I further propose that all aborts are concluded before 'normal' naval movement recommences. Which in the above example means that the Axis units A would still be in sea area X when Axis units C enter the sea area as part of their abort/return to base. Since A in in the sea area, then they might get involved in further combat when C enters. Once C completes its return to base, then B will complete its return to base, and then A can continue moving.

Why not.

This is a rare occurence that you have to take care of in programming the computer game, but that I never have encountered in 12 years of gaming WiF FE intensively, so I guess that around the table we would have had simplified it this way too.

As a note, remember that units initialy aborted, and then aborted again in a new interception, don't have their movement allowance and rate renewed, they still have to abort within range of their initial sea area where they aborted in the first place (this is in the FAQ, as question Q11.4-9 -- that is a question about overruning ships, but whose answer can be converted to this case).

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ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Is it really necessary to have each group abort separately for each round? Typically naval combats were over within 24 hours, which in the WIF time scale is instantaneous. Subdividing it further by combat round seems excessive.

The other problem here is that ships from multiple major powers and both sides might be aborting. That's especially true if one side decides to call it quits. To prioritize who aborts first I am planning on having the side that moved ships in the area abort first. For normal naval combat it is the side which chose to initiate the combat. But here I am going with the side that 'provoked' the combat by having its ships enter the area.

When multiple major powers are aborting from the same side, they can choose to do that in whichever order they like.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
The other problem here is that ships from multiple major powers and both sides might be aborting. That's especially true if one side decides to call it quits. To prioritize who aborts first I am planning on having the side that moved ships in the area abort first. For normal naval combat it is the side which chose to initiate the combat. But here I am going with the side that 'provoked' the combat by having its ships enter the area.

When multiple major powers are aborting from the same side, they can choose to do that in whichever order they like.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Is it really necessary to have each group abort separately for each round? Typically naval combats were over within 24 hours, which in the WIF time scale is instantaneous. Subdividing it further by combat round seems excessive.

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ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
The other problem here is that ships from multiple major powers and both sides might be aborting. That's especially true if one side decides to call it quits. To prioritize who aborts first I am planning on having the side that moved ships in the area abort first. For normal naval combat it is the side which chose to initiate the combat. But here I am going with the side that 'provoked' the combat by having its ships enter the area.

When multiple major powers are aborting from the same side, they can choose to do that in whichever order they like.

RAW does state that the active side decides to abort first. So even if initiated by the opponent in the Opponent's Naval Combat step, it is the active side that must decide first whether to abort.

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ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

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ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
The other problem here is that ships from multiple major powers and both sides might be aborting. That's especially true if one side decides to call it quits. To prioritize who aborts first I am planning on having the side that moved ships in the area abort first. For normal naval combat it is the side which chose to initiate the combat. But here I am going with the side that 'provoked' the combat by having its ships enter the area.

When multiple major powers are aborting from the same side, they can choose to do that in whichever order they like.

RAW does state that the active side decides to abort first. So even if initiated by the opponent in the Opponent's Naval Combat step, it is the active side that must decide first whether to abort.

Defining the Active side is a little difficult to do at times.

The standard cases are easy:
For naval movement it is the phasing side.
For naval combat initiated by the phasing side, it is the phasing side.
For naval combat initiated by the non-phasing side, it is the non-phasing side.

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But when an overrun occurs and naval units are forced to rebase (within twice their range) it gets messy:
A - The Axis overruns during land movement, the Allies rebase, naval combat occurs and both sides have units to abort,...
B - The placement of a partisan unit causes units to have to rebase, and the same sequence as above occurs.
C - The declaration of Vichy causes units to rebase, ...
D - Complete conquest of a country causes units to rebase,...
E - There are several more of these ...

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This is why for the non-standard cases I prefer to simply go with: whichever naval units 'just' moved into the sea area have to abort first.

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Aborting groups of units from the same combat separately still doesn't appeal to me. If the first combat round aborts a single unit and then that side decides to go home, you want the player to move the two groups (single unit & everybody else) separately?

EDIT: There are messy consequences if you answer the last question yes. In theory, the sea area from which units have already decided to go home could become engaged in another naval combat.