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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns

 
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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 9/25/2008 2:22:05 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		My plan for the time after the "german summer" is to protect Murmansk and start counterattacks
against AG North with the target to deliberate Leningrad.
But same time i have also protect Moscow and other key points.
Focus must be in the north for now. When the germans take Murmansk very soon this game
is over....

(in reply to seille)
Post #: 181
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 9/28/2008 4:29:30 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Turn 20 - July 7, 1942

Seille has moved his forces back all across the front. This yields me a lot of territory, but that's one thing the Russian player has plenty of in this game.

The Wehrmacht advances on all fronts again, just as in the previous summer, only this time against a more powerful and experienced opponent.

My production is still shipped mostly to AG North. Despite the taking of Leningrad, my gut feeling tells me AG North needs more strength for the coming battles. Of all the Army Groups, it has received the smallest share of reinforcements over the last year, but since it managed to stay out of any major battles, has retained most of its initial strength. But during the fierce fighting for Leningrad, some units ended up in a pretty bad shape and need to be restored to full strength for when the initiative shifts back to the Red Army.




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(in reply to seille)
Post #: 182
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 9/28/2008 5:23:26 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		I'm not reporting any detailed battle reports this turn. Most of my attacks were aborted prematurely because my troops had too far to travel to conduct a full battle. So all my kills this turn came from a lot of smaller attacks.

The screenshot shows the northern half of the front:




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Post #: 183
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 9/28/2008 5:28:06 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		The Southern half of the front shows more spectacular gains in terrain, but the sheer size of the country "soakes up" my advancing units and creates ever more separation between the various axes of advance.

Somehow I did not think of turning the Kriegsmarine HQ into a "real" HQ to have it take control of part of the front. I didn't think I could spare the resources to give it sufficient trucks and staff at this time. It would have been smarter to convert it during the first year and then deploy it in the Ukraine as the front widened.




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Post #: 184
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 9/28/2008 5:49:58 PM   
tweber

 

Posts: 1411
Joined: 6/27/2007
Status: offline 		Hi George,

With the benefit of hindsight, do you think it would have been better in the late Spring / early Summer to build some level bombers and try to knock out Moscow and then targets in the South (Stalingrad, Maikop, Sevastopol)?  Also, you are almost at the point were a few paras can cut the Eastern road isolating the north from the south.


(in reply to george1972)
Post #: 185
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 9/28/2008 6:52:10 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I had 60 fighter II in Moscow area. My good handling of them let George act VERY careful with his planes there
Only during the bonus turns i had them at "not intercepting". But for a levelbomber attack during this small time window
a awesome timing is needed. Too risky for a player like George. He never play do or die and this is good !
Paratroopers are always a problem, but most back areas were defended by either ground troops and/or air units.
I always took a look where Georges nearest airfields were and what he could do.
Overall George was too careful at some points of the game especially with his air units. But his use of artillery was not bad.
He had me on the ropes several times already but he did not realize it or wasn´t able to finish me off.

I´ll post my new turn tomorrow.

I forgot:
I have some flak in Sevastopol and a small fighter unit near Kerch to defend against paratroopers.

< Message edited by seille -- 9/28/2008 6:57:08 PM >

(in reply to tweber)
Post #: 186
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 9/29/2008 12:59:18 AM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Actually, I never considered the use of level bombers in a strategic bomber role in this scenario (I play it a bit too historic, perhaps ). Also the use of paratroopers didn't come up to me either. Part out of respect of Seille's air forces, part because of the huge distances involved. Although your suggestion is something worth considering, as it provides an alternative way of lowering Russian production.

My biggest problem at this time in the game was that I did not realize how stretched Seille's lines were at certain places, because everytime I achieved some kind of breakthrough, the next turn I would see 2 - 4 new units blocking my path. This gave me the impression he had a substantial number of units behind the front, even though he actually didn't.

I would definitely play this scenario very differently now

(in reply to tweber)
Post #: 187
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 9/29/2008 3:35:38 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Hehe, George feared the most of the time my non existing backyard army

(in reply to george1972)
Post #: 188
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 9/29/2008 3:40:53 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		German turn 20.

First my production and routing.
You´ll see i send the most reenforcements to Smolensk (Center) and Leningrad (north) since this were
in my eyes the most important areas. And i never had enough production at this point of the game.
The german army is in much better shape.






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Post #: 189
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 9/29/2008 3:46:52 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		The north and the center:

Even with german bonus the german army can´t conquer my territory without risk.
The trap i built last turn behind Leningrad worked.
The Wehrmacht spearhead was attacked from 5 directions by mostly infantry!

In the center i neutralized a important engineer unit. Unfortunately i wasn´t able
to locate the real german spearhead there. A armored unit of very high value.




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Post #: 190
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 9/29/2008 3:54:45 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		In the south i´m in trouble, but actually there is nothing i can do since i need my fresh troops in the north
and center. For now i want to keep control there even this means to lose control of the south.
If you want to defend everything you defend nothing.....




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Post #: 191
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 9/29/2008 7:23:20 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Turn 21, July 27, 1942

My last bonus round. Up until now I had not really inflicted a lot of casualties, so I had to step up my game a bit and hit the Russian units hard. Since in their turn, they still would be handicapped, I could always extract myself out of sticky situations on my next turn, if need be.

I decided to copy Seille's production overview, also showing what goes to which HQ. As a note, OKW received 9200 supplies, while it received requests for 10800. I still hadn't figured out how to set my supply production correctly




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< Message edited by george1972 -- 9/29/2008 7:24:00 PM >

(in reply to seille)
Post #: 192
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 9/29/2008 7:35:40 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		The Russian counter-attack near Leningrad had startled me. My units were very good, but I had just a few of them and could not rebuild them at this rate, so I had to keep them alive better. The unit that initially encircled Leningrad a few turns ago, was still rebuilding in the rear, a dim shadow of its former self...

Near Leningrad, I decided against a push towards some objective, but to just try and kill as many Russians as possible this turn. No real major battles were fought, but overall I dealt the Red Army a bloody nose.

Further South, my mobile attack towards Tula ran into opposition and I decided to high-tail it back.

I've been looking at the map over these last few turns now, and realize that I could have developed additional pressure on Moscow using AG South. There were no Russian armies that could threaten AG South from the East, aside from some remnants that weren't being reinforced. And AG South could have thrown at least 6 units of 150+ strength into a Northern attack, supported by the bulk of the Luftwaffe.

This would of course have been a complete "do or die" gamble, in that it just had to succeed to yield me anything, but if it had succeeded, I think the Russian position would have become very difficult. Ah, hindsight. I think the next time I play this scenario, I'm gonna meticulously keep track of each Russian unit in the field, plot it against known production capacity and see what my opponent could possibly have left where I could not see it. Or perhaps use some fighters on recon missions...




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Post #: 193
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 9/29/2008 7:45:57 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		In the South, things are much, much easier. All opposition in front of the Wehrmacht is thrown back with heavy casualties and the advance crosses the high-water mark of last year's offensive.

Seeing how the Red Army is melting away here and after crossing the Don southwards without seeing any new Russian units, I finally notice that the Russian reserves in this sector are non-existent.

This is the moment I decide to put my focus on the Southern part of the front. Production is redirected to AG Romania and AG South with the emphasis on the former. Their mission: seize Maikop, Baku and Stalingrad before the new year and develop a thrust towards the North in the Spring of 1943.

The Russian defenders were non-existent at this moment and what defenders would show up would be green and unorganized. By pushing hard I could retain the initiative and so capture sufficient production to meet the Soviet Union on even terms in 1943, even with their additional production facility.

But I had to be swift. If I could not capture Baku quickly enough, I would be facing a huge army in the second half of 1943 that I could not possibly hope to defeat. Time was of the essence...




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Post #: 194
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 9/30/2008 5:35:13 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Russian turn 21.

Like George i´ll not longer post detailled battle results.
Just the important ones. Other wise it will be too much work
with all the fights. Icons will always show the fights.

Production:




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Post #: 195
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 9/30/2008 5:36:37 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		The north and center:





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Post #: 196
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 9/30/2008 5:46:13 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		The south:

With the fall of Rostov the germans opened the backdor to Maikop and Baku.
I fear i´ll be in real trouble soon....

Look at my forces. This is what i call bad shape. All the hard fights and the complete south front
got only a few dozen infantry and one or two tanks per turn.
No wonder that it looks like this.
But i can´t say it often enough. Even i could have stopped the germans int he south this means
risking to lose Murmansk and later Moscow.




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Post #: 197
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 9/30/2008 10:04:43 PM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline 		Looks like the Soviets are doing quite well in the North and Center - at the cost of losses in the south.

Rick

(in reply to seille)
Post #: 198
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/1/2008 3:14:09 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Yes, Rick that´s right. The south is the price i pay for keeping the north and center under control.
I still think it was the right decision since i felt George wanted to go for Murmansk.
I must say George was a long time very passive at some points of the front. Crimea for example
or the center. But he´s very active now in Leningrad area and the complete south except the crimea.
In the south the front is moving....

(in reply to rickier65)
Post #: 199
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/4/2008 12:02:24 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Turn 22, August 16, 1942

In mid-summer, my bonus turns come to an end. Thanks to them I managed to build up some momentum in the far North and most of the South. But my killing spree will not last and I need to move quickly to make the most of the opportunities offered.

My production sees a strong flow into the Southern theater, but I keep a trickle of reinforcements going to the other fronts as well. I still don't dare to go all out for a specific goal. Will this come back to haunt me? Time will tell.




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(in reply to seille)
Post #: 200
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/4/2008 12:06:44 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		In the North, resistance is stiffening. The end of my bonus rounds of course has something to do with that, but the terrain isn't favorable for offensive operations either. Despite this, AG North manages to take Demyansk and push towards the East, but most of AG North is deployed in a defensive line in front of Leningrad.

AG Center has lost all attacking spirit when looking at the enemy strength in front of it. The little attack launched against the left flank of the Smolensk front is aborted and the units involved deploy into a loose line between the upper Dniepr and Orel.




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Post #: 201
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/4/2008 12:13:13 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		In the South things couldn't be more different from the North. There is hardly a Russian soldier to be seen and I continue my advance. As the Luftwaffe is transferring to airfields closer to the front, their support this turn is limited and so two of my attacks are repulsed with heavy losses despite numerical superiority. Not a good omen.

Nevertheless I manage to push across the Don east of Rostov and throw a bridgehead across the Kuban, putting me just 2 hexes from Maikop. My unit density is low however and my usual fear of mobile enemy units cutting off my spearheads is slowly getting stronger. For now, I'm prevented from covering my flanks due to a lack of units on the ground. So instead I just keep pushing towards my objective: Maikop and ultimately, Baku/Grozny.





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Post #: 202
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/4/2008 12:17:00 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		The Crimea has become a sideshow of little relevance. If I had taken Sevastopol first during the Summer offensive, I would not have been able to advance as far as I have now and I cannot spare additional troops to clean out the Crimea. I feel a bit like Rommel who had to bypass Tobruk in '41 since he lacked the strength to take it.

If I manage to get Maikop, Baku and Stalingrad, I will have sufficient production to continue fighting the Red Army in 1943 and sending a detachment to finally clean out the Crimea.




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/4/2008 3:41:50 PM   
Shambling Strider


Posts: 123
Joined: 1/16/2008
From: Canada
Status: offline 		This AAR is great! Very well detailed and visually impressive.

Thank you for this good work Sir!

_____________________________

War is patience.

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Post #: 204
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/4/2008 4:44:04 PM   
TheArchduke


Posts: 407
Joined: 2/7/2008
Status: offline 		Hmm, the soviet front breaks apart but George seems way to spread up.

Some are going north, some are taking Voronezh, some don´t manage to break through the road to Stalingrad, some east of Rostov and some to Maikop.

Imo a good big push to Maikop or Stalingrad with covering forces holding the other fronts would have been better. I don´t see George having enough forces to exploit each front.

(in reply to Shambling Strider)
Post #: 205
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/4/2008 7:01:32 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Russian turn 22.
Finally the german bonus is gone. Time to think about the
current situation and the coming month´s.

In the north and center we look stable now. Especially in Leningrad i stabilized
the situation by placing a lot of infantry in the heavy forest where it can gain XP
for the upcoming attacks.
Yes, attacks are planned there !

They turn step by step from "Murmansk defenders" to "Leningrad attackers"

The good situation in these area will hopefully allow us to focus more down south
where in larger areas we have no existing front.









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< Message edited by seille -- 10/4/2008 7:03:16 PM >

(in reply to TheArchduke)
Post #: 206
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/4/2008 7:05:08 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		The north/center




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Post #: 207
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/4/2008 7:08:10 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		The south, not funny to look at from my point of view....




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Post #: 208
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/5/2008 3:28:10 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheArchduke

Hmm, the soviet front breaks apart but George seems way to spread up.

Some are going north, some are taking Voronezh, some don´t manage to break through the road to Stalingrad, some east of Rostov and some to Maikop.

Imo a good big push to Maikop or Stalingrad with covering forces holding the other fronts would have been better. I don´t see George having enough forces to exploit each front.


You're probably right. Before the Summer offensive, I should have picked a main objective and thrown my full weight into it. I would either have succeeded gloriously or failed miserably. The most obvious mistake I made throughout this game was getting "carried away" by tactical successes in certain areas. I must say that I have learned a lot from this game, especially about long-term thinking.

(in reply to TheArchduke)
Post #: 209
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/5/2008 5:04:26 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Turn 23, September 5, 1942

Last turn I looked at my spare PP count (well over 80) and decided to spend some of it. Fighter III was a long way away and I needed an offensive boost now. So I decided to upgrade to Mortar II. As long as I could protect them properly, they would survive (being second-line troops) and gain experience, making them excellent killers in attacks.

Seille's attacks showed his air force was back at the front again and it still was bigger than mine. What could I do against it? Earlier in this AAR, Seille mentioned that I should have concentrated my Fighters into a single big group. This has obvious benefits when intercepting incoming attacks, but also leaves you with less options for providing air support to your ground troops. Looking at how AT models air combat however, leads me to believe the strategy of keeping your air force split up in the face of larger enemy fighter groups is a quick way to lose your air force...

My production for this turn:




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(in reply to george1972)
Post #: 210
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