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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns

 
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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/5/2008 5:10:33 PM   
george1972

 

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Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Of course, my frustration over the bogged down attacks along the bank of the Donetz was high. So this turn I would teach those Russian SOB's they should have run for the awesome might of the Wehrmacht last turn.

The screenshots show how that operation went:




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/5/2008 5:35:52 PM   
george1972

 

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Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		This defeat had serious repercussions as I had to abort my drive East of Rostov and pull back those units to set up another attack for the next turn. AG South was effectively halted in its drive for Stalingrad.

Next to this, some of my air strikes had run into strong Russian Fighter opposition coming from Stalingrad and Novorosk. I had already chosen to go for the Caucasus, but now I really had to throw everything I could make available into that drive to succeed. So this turn saw the last offensive operations of AG South in the Northern sector of its front.




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/5/2008 5:45:38 PM   
george1972

 

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Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		The North is turning into a sideshow for me now, as my focus is on the Southern area of the Front. AG North has to pull units out of their drive towards Moscow since they are facing annihilation by Red Air Force attacks. In the middle of the line it performs another deliberate attack but overall it looks as if AG North has reached its apex.




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/6/2008 10:13:58 AM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Russian turn 23.

The production and routing:




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/6/2008 10:17:02 AM   
seille

 

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Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		The north.

Time to fight back.
While George focusses on the south my focus is in the north.
Here is actually my only chance for effective attacks.






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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/6/2008 10:21:40 AM   
seille

 

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Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		The south.

Critical as always. We still do not have the troops available we need for good defense
especially in Maikop area. Maybe i´ll regret the decision not to send more troops
to Maikop.






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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/6/2008 10:24:28 AM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		As a little extra for this turn i created another forces overview
showing my main armies seperated and a total overview.




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/6/2008 4:24:34 PM   
TheArchduke


Posts: 407
Joined: 2/7/2008
Status: offline 		Hmm, the loss of air superiority towards the Soviets will spell the doom of the northern front. Stalingrad is safe and Maikop can not be taken by 2-3 lone units.

I think George´s push in the south should have been more vigorous and especially the Sevastopol area should have been attacked after the winter.

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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/6/2008 5:56:50 PM   
george1972

 

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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheArchduke
Hmm, the loss of air superiority towards the Soviets will spell the doom of the northern front. Stalingrad is safe and Maikop can not be taken by 2-3 lone units.


All true. The situation before Stalingrad seems to be bogging down into positional warfare and the push towards Maikop is much too light to succeed. It will be won be the side that manages to press more reinforcements into the fight than the other... But production-wise, the Germans don't have an edge here.

Similar to Seille's last post, I also compiled a list of strengths of my various AG HQ's and the results are less gloomy than I thought at the time. The Wehrmacht still retains an edge in supporting weaponry, be it a little edge. But in the infantry department, the gap with the Red Army is widening steadily but surely.

One thing I had not expected was the edge in tanks and the fact that the Luftwaffe fighters were almost up to par with the Red Air Force.




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/6/2008 8:18:29 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		A look at the various sectors of the front. 

Northern Sector: Finland + AG North vs Leningrad Front

              Germany   Russia    Ratio (approx.)
Truck            10       25       1 : 2
Light Tank        6        5       1 : 1
Engineer         47       51       1 : 1
Inf. Gun          5        -       5 : 0
AT Gun            2        3       1 : 1
Level Bomber      3        -       3 : 0
Horses           64        2      32 : 1
Flak              9       13       1 : 1
Machinegun       25        -      25 : 0
Scout             1        -       1 : 0
Mortar (I + II)  33       57       1 : 2
Bazooka          11        -      11 : 0
Staff           100      211       1 : 2
Divebomber        6        6       1 : 1  (Supported by 11 Divebombers from the Smolensk Front)
Rifle II        565      125       4 : 1
SMG II          162      704       1 : 5
Fighter II       27       18       2 : 1  (Supported by 53 Fighters from the Smolensk Front)
Artillery II     23       12       2 : 1


The situation in the North seems to be balanced, were it not for the support the Russians receive from the Smolensk air group. 

Central Sector: OKW + AG Center vs Smolensk Front

              Germany   Russia    Ratio (approx.)
Truck            31        5       6 :  1
Light Tank        9        5       2 :  1
Engineer         94        -      94 :  0
Inf. Gun         13        -      13 :  0
Horses           78        -      78 :  0
Flak             20        9       2 :  1
Machinegun       24       51       1 :  2
Scout             2        -       2 :  0
Mortar (I + II)  48       26       2 :  1
Bazooka           -       34       0 : 34
Staff           180      241       1 :  1
Divebomber        -       11       0 : 11  (Supporting Leningrad Front)
Rifle II        515     1038       1 :  2
Fighter II        -       53       0 : 53  (Supporting Leningrad Front)
Artillery II     12        -      12 :  0


In the Center, the bad infantry ratio is hardly offset by the advantages in tanks and artillery. A determined push by the Russians could cause me a lot of trouble. 

Northern Ukraine: AG South vs Stalingrad + Orel Fronts

(Orel Front was missing from Seille's overview)

              Germany   Russia    Ratio (approx.)
Truck            25       20       1 :  1
Light Tank       14       11       1 :  1
Medium Tank       -        1       0 :  1
Engineer         38        -      38 :  0
Inf. Gun          7        -       7 :  0
Horses           56        -      56 :  0
Flak              9        8       1 :  1
Machinegun       19       11       2 :  1
Scout            15        -      15 :  0
Mortar (I + II)  21        -      21 :  0
Bazooka          32        9       3 :  1
Staff           148      176       1 :  1
Divebomber        9        9       1 :  1
Rifle II        610      563       1 :  1
Fighter II       44       15       3 :  1
Artillery II     15        4       4 :  1


Here the situation is evening out, with only the German advantage resting mostly in air and artillery assets. 

Southern Ukraine: Romania vs Maikop + Sevastopol Fronts

(Sevastopol Front was missing from Seille's overview)

              Germany   Russia    Ratio (approx.)
Truck            23        9       2 :  1
Light Tank       13        3       4 :  1
Engineer         48       17       3 :  1
Inf. Gun          3        -       3 :  0
AT Gun            -        3       0 :  3
Horses           50        3      16 :  1
Flak              9        6       2 :  1
Machinegun       20       12       2 :  1
Mortar (I + II)  26       19       1 :  1
Bazooka           3        -       3 :  0
Staff           114      107       1 :  1
Divebomber        5        4       1 :  1
Rifle II        522      436       1 :  1
Fighter II       21       10       2 :  1
Artillery II     16        1      16 :  1


In this sector, we still have air superiority, and overwhelming artillery support. But in grunts, the situation is evening out very quickly now. The only thing going for me here is the fact Seille has to send his green troops straight into battle against my more experienced forces. This should enable me to maintain a high kill ratio and perhaps make some progress.

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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/6/2008 8:22:00 PM   
george1972

 

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From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Turn 24 - September 25, 1942

It's late September in the second year of the Campaign, and the German army still hasn't defeated its enemy nor manage to secure the resources required to sustain the war effort indefinitely. Despite the capture of Leningrad, I'm now lagging behind my historical counterparts, which is not a good sign.

The report at the start of the turn was another:




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/6/2008 9:24:55 PM   
george1972

 

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Joined: 6/19/2008
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Status: offline 		The overview of the various front has been split into 3 screenshots now, since the area of operations has become very large due to my offensive in the Ukraine. First, the Northern part:




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/6/2008 9:27:34 PM   
george1972

 

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Status: offline 		The second shot shows the area around Kursk and Kharkov. AG South's flank here has become very extended. I'm convinced that if Seille starts sending his surplus troops from the Smolensk front to attack this flank, my Southern offensive must be aborted or I risk losing both AG South and Romania.




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/6/2008 9:29:43 PM   
george1972

 

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Status: offline 		And finally, the Southern-most area of operations. Maikop falls to my attacks, but my troops are dangerously exposed. My stronger but less numerous units always run the risk of being outflanked by weaker but more numerous Red Army units.




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/6/2008 11:24:54 PM   
rickier65

 

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Things look pretty grim George.

Rick

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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/7/2008 3:59:31 AM   
TheArchduke


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Status: offline 		Hmm, doing the right thing to late? You are finally concentrating on Maikop and Stalingrad, whilst pressuring the north (and especially the center..)
But I fear Seille will be swamping you in troops soon. Or will he? I thought the campaign was a very long affair.

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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/7/2008 9:31:00 AM   
seille

 

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From: Germany
Status: offline 		You guy´s will wonder what will happen.
For now i´m the guy whi is in trouble especially in the south.
In the north it would be the same without my air superiority.

Btw, every time george focussed on something i did the same.
I focussed my production on that area. Mostly this worked.
For example between Leningrad and Murmansk or several times in front of
Moscow.

However the situation in the south is out of control now for my russsians.
The problem is like always the strong german artillery combined with
air superiority + the few but VERY powerful units of AG South ans Romania.
Not to forget the fact George is building a lot of fortifications everywhere.
A very similar strategy of myself in former games ended with a victory..... 

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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/7/2008 9:33:17 AM   
seille

 

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Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Russian turn 24




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/7/2008 9:36:53 AM   
seille

 

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Status: offline 		North and Center.

Several very good attacks in the north finished off 3 german units including about
100 infantry and at least a half dozen artillery II + several other equipment.
First time the russians did a well organized ground attack supported by planes AND artillery.




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/7/2008 9:40:16 AM   
seille

 

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Status: offline 		The south.

Not much to report here except the fall of Maikop

@archduke
Never underestimate the power of XP and a good unit mix.
I did and it was a mistake




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/7/2008 10:36:57 AM   
TheArchduke


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Status: offline 		Hmm, another bunch of green troops near Maikop, only with 41 strength protecting the HQ. I would predict that George will attack through that corps right to the HQ thereby making your Maikop Front implode. Not good I guess.

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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/7/2008 11:02:16 AM   
seille

 

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From: Germany
Status: offline 		I had not the production to place more here.
Losing Maikop is bad sure, but losing the north/south connection would have been a little disaster.
I had 3 cities produce for the Maikop front (including Maikop self), all i had available at this time.

On my radar i had at this time only 2-3 german units. That these units have strong artillery
and soon air power available i didn´t know.

I still think to keep my northern forces strong enough was a key point.
Due to this strategy it was possible to cause a nice damage up there in the last turns.

Near Maikop i would play different now i think. Using the VERY green troops is not good.
They are no opponents, just victims....
But at this time i had to delay the german advance as good as possible, so i throwed my green troops
direct into the fights.

Btw, these troops near Maikop are not only green they have after the fights in german turn mostly
very low readiness.

We both didn´t play any "do or die"-strategy, we played mostly careful waiting for the other player making
a mistake. Actually i make the mistake to underestimate George´s push to Maikop.

Only due to our style we´re able to present you guy´s here such a AAR. I don´t think there are other games of russia
1941 which runned over the full distance. Most others i played ended before 1943...

It was no easy game for both of us. One crisis after the other.
George is a tough opponent now compared to the games we played before.

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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/7/2008 2:30:02 PM   
TheArchduke


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Status: offline 		Well, I hope I can play a match against George or you soonish. My long time opponent BoronX took a pause from AT.

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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/7/2008 7:42:43 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
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From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		George is doomed.

_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/7/2008 9:47:08 PM   
seille

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

George is doomed.


Forget this
He is still very strong. And he´ll show you this soon in this AAR....

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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/8/2008 11:55:37 AM   
george1972

 

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Joined: 6/19/2008
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Status: offline 		Turn 25 - October 15, 1942

Not a happy start: again high losses and one unit of artillery is wiped out completely. I did not have the transfer capacity last turn to get it out of harms way, since Seille's air force took out most trucks of AG North. Also I was a bit too bold in my attacks last turn, so this is the price I had to pay.





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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/8/2008 11:59:26 AM   
george1972

 

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Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Army Groups North and Center are in trouble, but Center doesn't know it yet. AG North withdraws but is not in pristine condition. Leningrad is threatened and not sufficiently garrisoned. I also transferred out the Luftwaffe, essentially giving up this area.

In the Center I was still in an offensive mood, but that was soon to change...




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/8/2008 12:03:47 PM   
george1972

 

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Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		On AG South's northern flank, things are quieting down. After last turn's attacks, I transferred out most of my units so I could put more strength into my push towards Stalingrad. I did have one little disaster though: Kharkov fell to partisan units!!

Argh! Turns out I misread the briefing and thought that partisans only appear in Riga, Minsk and Kiev. No way, they can appear in ANY producing city. Damn. This means I cannot use the city for my production for at least 2 turns and have to repair it as well. Another setback in an already gloomy autumn.




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/8/2008 12:12:23 PM   
george1972

 

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Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		In the Kuban, my spearhead is in trouble. It is cut off by more numerous but weaker units, but they can launch a devastating concentric counter-attack on my troops.

The plan is to have the follow-up forces break the ring and then reinforce the bridgehead. The powerful German artillery pounds the Russians on the far bank and as the smoke clears it turns out the bridge is down! Ouch! Engineers are rushed forward, but they lack sufficient AP to construct a new bridge.

So my plans are changed: the spearhead now fights in reverse to recapture the river bank and even more troops are sent that way to burst across the river in the next turn.

Remembering Guderian's maxim "klotzen nicht kleckern", the Luftwaffe launches a massed air strike against Novorosk.

AG South continues to build up strength on the Road to Stalingrad, but the Russians are getting reinforced too.




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/8/2008 12:17:26 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		At this point in the game I though Seille would only have to do two things to defeat me within 10 turns: continue to pressure AG North and Center but most importantly, execute a hard drive towards Kharkov/Kiev from the North using forces from the Smolesnk, Orel and 3rd Fronts. My defensive screen here was paper-thin, but I had no choice but to gamble on a little period of hesitation on the Russian side. If they acted too late, the SS Panzer Corps would probably save the day in January... (Or so I hoped).
Of course, due to the fog of war, Seille could not see my troops around Voronezh were gone, so that might give me the time needed...

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