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Calling All BG Civil War Designers! - Grand Scenario!

 
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Calling All BG Civil War Designers! - Grand Scenario! - 10/27/2008 2:01:16 AM   
dth

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 6/11/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		Gents! I found out how to modify nearly every aspect of the game. I can create new maps by modifying them with the Eastern Front map editor and with a little bit of modification the maps load into the Battleground Civil War scenarios.

I’m looking to create a grand scenario on Amry->Corp->Division (unit size) level. I've changed the movement and weapons data to reflect the maps size aspects (also the stack limit for the divisiona sized units).

Turns = 15 minutes (represent a weeks movement)
Dusk = Fall/Spring movements
Night = Winter movements

Scenario covers the complete civil war using all existing Battleground and HPS OOB I could find. I've modified them into one large OOB using DIVISIONS as unit size.

The only problem I'm having is getting the naval units to work. The OOB files don't like the addition or removal of Gunboats. Does anyone know how to add or remove Gunboats in the OOB without causing errors? Another problem is that I’m limited to only 1 Gunboat (HPS has a couple of boats in their scenarios!). Here is another naval question, should units be able to transport accros the water or should it be restricted to only Gunboats? What do you think of minimum movment points needed to use rail lines for quick troop movement across the large map?

I've added a picture of the 2D map here in the post- preview of early map. Let me know your thoughts on building the BIG scenario or if you would be interesting in helping complete the scenario.

BRD!





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RE: Calling All BG Civil War Designers! - Grand Scenario! - 10/28/2008 7:51:19 AM   
Ashantai

 

Posts: 137
Joined: 10/16/2006
Status: offline 		Sounds very interesting to me. How are you going to handle the mountains and rivers on the map?

I have a feeling it could work well! Keep it up.

(in reply to dth)
Post #: 2
RE: Calling All BG Civil War Designers! - Grand Scenario! - 10/28/2008 4:12:22 PM   
dth

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 6/11/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		I scanned a map of the Eastern US with the main geographical features.  I will use the elevation settings in the EF map editor to set the elevations.  The sample maps seem to work well but I can't do anything about the line-of-sight file.  I don't think that will be problem because the scale is 20km per hex and nothing has the range beyond a hex so LOS shouldn't be an issue.

I did crack the naval unit problem in the OOB and will be able to add naval units into the game as well.  I'm still trying to figure out the max units per hex on this scale as obviously there were large divisions/corps/armies covering a 20 km area.  The actual units (division) sizes range from 3,000 to 8,000 men.  I was thinking of setting the maximum hex setting to 30,000 men which would allow an entire corp/army to fit in a hex.
 

(in reply to Ashantai)
Post #: 3
RE: Calling All BG Civil War Designers! - Grand Scenario! - 10/28/2008 5:26:49 PM   
elcidce

 

Posts: 198
Joined: 7/2/2004
From: Lugoff, SC
Status: offline 		Watch out for the changes in many areas of the southeastern US. There have been dams build since the war that will throw off your mapping across the dammed valleys. In SC there are Lake Murray and Lake Wateree. Both are controlled with dams. I think there are several in Tennessee and one near Atlanta if I am not mistaken.

Good luck. If I had the skills to make a contribution, I would. I cant wait to see the final product.

_____________________________

The Citadel
G Company
Class of 1991

(in reply to dth)
Post #: 4
RE: Calling All BG Civil War Designers! - Grand Scenario! - 10/28/2008 5:26:49 PM   
elcidce

 

Posts: 198
Joined: 7/2/2004
From: Lugoff, SC
Status: offline 		dup

< Message edited by elcidce -- 10/28/2008 5:29:23 PM >

_____________________________

The Citadel
G Company
Class of 1991

(in reply to dth)
Post #: 5
RE: Calling All BG Civil War Designers! - Grand Scenario! - 10/28/2008 5:26:49 PM   
elcidce

 

Posts: 198
Joined: 7/2/2004
From: Lugoff, SC
Status: offline 		dup.

< Message edited by elcidce -- 10/28/2008 5:29:09 PM >

_____________________________

The Citadel
G Company
Class of 1991

(in reply to dth)
Post #: 6
RE: Calling All BG Civil War Designers! - Grand Scenario! - 10/28/2008 7:44:04 PM   
andym


Posts: 1117
Joined: 7/12/2006
From: Kings Lynn UK
Status: offline 		It would be awesome if when 2 opposing corps meet then a snapshot battle between them(like a mini scenario)which would influence the game play.

_____________________________

Press to Test...............Release to Detonate!

(in reply to elcidce)
Post #: 7
RE: Calling All BG Civil War Designers! - Grand Scenario! - 11/11/2008 12:09:18 AM   
marcbarker


Posts: 1213
Joined: 7/6/2008
Status: offline 		also northwest alabama wheeler dam on the tennessee, the coast line has changed tremendously in sc since the CW. Ft wagner is gone...folly coast line has changed , port royal etc. if you could get your hands on some scans of navigation maps of the era in the area you want to do that could help.

_____________________________

games:
1. AGEOD Blue and Gray
2. John Tiller's Battleground Series
3. Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord
4. Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
5. V for Victory Games
6. Silent Hunter III
7. Silent Hunter IV
8. Rise and Fall of the Third Re

(in reply to andym)
Post #: 8
RE: Calling All BG Civil War Designers! - Grand Scenario! - 11/11/2008 12:17:39 AM   
marcbarker


Posts: 1213
Joined: 7/6/2008
Status: offline 		coastal carolina




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_____________________________

games:
1. AGEOD Blue and Gray
2. John Tiller's Battleground Series
3. Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord
4. Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
5. V for Victory Games
6. Silent Hunter III
7. Silent Hunter IV
8. Rise and Fall of the Third Re

(in reply to marcbarker)
Post #: 9
RE: Calling All BG Civil War Designers! - Grand Scenario! - 11/16/2008 12:22:53 PM   
dth

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 6/11/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		Barker,

Thanks for the Map info! I'm currently combining all the units into divisional scale. The problem is that I created the file to make a OOB for TOAW where I could use multi weapons to create the division. Here, I can only use 1 weapon to make the division. I will have to take the largest number of the division and combine all other numbers to that unit type/weapon. I guess with artillery I will have to do the same thing? An example would be AoTenness->Hill'sCorp->Breckinridge's Division. He has 4 Howitzers and 10 Napoleons in his division. I would have to combine them to make it 14 Napoleons to reduce the unit to 1 artillery unit for the division. Here is a list of the units in an excel table:


I'm still working on the map details (bitmap image, mapeditor and the OOB). I will keep you posted and the scenario develops.

BRD!




Attachment (1)

(in reply to marcbarker)
Post #: 10
RE: Calling All BG Civil War Designers! - Grand Scenario! - 11/16/2008 6:18:11 PM   
Brigz


Posts: 1162
Joined: 1/20/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dth

Barker,

Thanks for the Map info! I'm currently combining all the units into divisional scale. The problem is that I created the file to make a OOB for TOAW where I could use multi weapons to create the division. Here, I can only use 1 weapon to make the division. I will have to take the largest number of the division and combine all other numbers to that unit type/weapon. I guess with artillery I will have to do the same thing? An example would be AoTenness->Hill'sCorp->Breckinridge's Division. He has 4 Howitzers and 10 Napoleons in his division. I would have to combine them to make it 14 Napoleons to reduce the unit to 1 artillery unit for the division. Here is a list of the units in an excel table:


I'm still working on the map details (bitmap image, mapeditor and the OOB). I will keep you posted and the scenario develops.

BRD!


At this scale individual weapon rating would seem irrelevant. There would be no range as the units would have to fight adjacent to each other. You are talking at least 15/20 miles per hex aren't you? Artillery units wouldn't be necessary either unless you just wanted to add in an extra factor to each battle.

Seems like instead of using individual weapons for each division it would be better to invent a division rating scale and substitute this for weapon rating. Exp: Elite Inf, First Line Inf, Second Line Inf, Elite Cavalry, Partisans, etc. Give each rating a specific value and capability. Same could apply to the strength numbers of the divisions. Giving the divisions a scaled strength number might make the battles fit the time scale better and make the strategic concept of the game flow better.

_____________________________

“You're only young once but you can be immature for as long as you want”

(in reply to dth)
Post #: 11
RE: Calling All BG Civil War Designers! - Grand Scenario! - 11/24/2008 7:02:10 PM   
Ashantai

 

Posts: 137
Joined: 10/16/2006
Status: offline 		How do you plan to deal with routing? I mean, if units can only move 1 hex normally, what happens if they up and flee 5 hexes after losing a small number?

(in reply to Brigz)
Post #: 12
RE: Calling All BG Civil War Designers! - Grand Scenario! - 11/26/2008 1:02:02 AM   
marcbarker


Posts: 1213
Joined: 7/6/2008
Status: offline 		Sounds like he wants to marry a strageic srmy level with a regiment battle.....sort of pg3 meets cs.....sounds like a 2 game system...like and AGEOD ACW toplevel when forces meet it kicks into the BG type stuff...plausible, but very time consuming sounds like....sounds like fun

_____________________________

games:
1. AGEOD Blue and Gray
2. John Tiller's Battleground Series
3. Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord
4. Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
5. V for Victory Games
6. Silent Hunter III
7. Silent Hunter IV
8. Rise and Fall of the Third Re

(in reply to Ashantai)
Post #: 13
RE: Calling All BG Civil War Designers! - Grand Scenario! - 11/26/2008 1:03:19 AM   
Brigz


Posts: 1162
Joined: 1/20/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ashantai

How do you plan to deal with routing? I mean, if units can only move 1 hex normally, what happens if they up and flee 5 hexes after losing a small number?


That's a good point. Maybe this game engine just isn't geared up for strategic.

_____________________________

“You're only young once but you can be immature for as long as you want”

(in reply to Ashantai)
Post #: 14
RE: Calling All BG Civil War Designers! - Grand Scenario! - 11/27/2008 8:11:10 PM   
marcbarker


Posts: 1213
Joined: 7/6/2008
Status: offline 		what if you played a top leve; strageic game for example Forge of freedom...then when a balle occurs it gives the option to decide whether to initiate BG or not

_____________________________

games:
1. AGEOD Blue and Gray
2. John Tiller's Battleground Series
3. Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord
4. Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
5. V for Victory Games
6. Silent Hunter III
7. Silent Hunter IV
8. Rise and Fall of the Third Re

(in reply to Brigz)
Post #: 15
RE: Calling All BG Civil War Designers! - Grand Scenario! - 12/6/2008 1:31:33 PM   
dth

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 6/11/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
Barker/Dave,

I've been working on this Strategic version in TOAW and BG Civil War.  Both have their advantages and disadvantages.  The TOAW has the ability to setup the detail units by division and the BG Civil War scenario is limited with the units.  Also I can create the naval units/details better with the TOAW version.  The thing I like best about the BGCW version is the casualty/victory report and the leader capabilities.  In the TOAW you don't get the casualty report nor do you get any leader advantages.  This is why I've trying the Grand Scale Scenario in both programs.  My biggest desire would also to be able to create such a Grand Scale Scenario with PG2.  As there are map limitations, this idea is dead for the moment.  I truly believe that could be one of the best all-time classic games, on a Grand Scale, if it only had that capability.  To date, I still haven't found anyone who can open-up the PG2 maps beyond their small 44 x 39 (?) size maps.  Till then, I'll keep working on my second choice...the Civil War Grand Scale Scenario.  Thanks for the input guys.  I'm trying to workout the movement for rail, naval transport and landing areas.  I'm also having limitation problems with the Gunboats vs. Naval units.  They only can go in water areas and not rivers so I either need to make major rivers full water hexes or limit gunboats to ocean movement.  I would also have to give units water movement capability in column formation to allow for naval transport.  Question is how much movement should they be allow in the 1 week scaled turn?  To eliminate full costal deport, I will put non-movement hexes along the costal hexes and only leave the port hexes/cities open for movement.  In the TOAW, this problem is fixed with gunboats only moving on river areas and naval movement done only in deep water hexes.  In addition, units can only do sea transport when units depart from a harbor hex.  This is what I mean about the pros/cons of the two programs.

BRD!

(in reply to marcbarker)
Post #: 16
RE: Calling All BG Civil War Designers! - Grand Scenario! - 12/6/2008 9:41:23 PM   
marcbarker


Posts: 1213
Joined: 7/6/2008
Status: offline 		Look at the CS series... the new updates have rail movement embedded...seems like you could do something with that short of decompiling the Executable

_____________________________

games:
1. AGEOD Blue and Gray
2. John Tiller's Battleground Series
3. Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord
4. Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
5. V for Victory Games
6. Silent Hunter III
7. Silent Hunter IV
8. Rise and Fall of the Third Re

(in reply to dth)
Post #: 17
RE: Calling All BG Civil War Designers! - Grand Scenario! - 1/28/2009 8:57:30 PM   
CW BUFF

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 1/28/2009
Status: offline 		Hey Guys,
Let me know when this Grand Scenario is complete, sounds like it will be very interesting. Will it be an add on to the current John Tiller's CW Battlegound?

(in reply to marcbarker)
Post #: 18
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