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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns

 
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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/24/2008 10:45:13 AM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		As an intermezzo, the overview of the forces at in Turn 30, the turns you just saw. I've taken the German overview at the start of their turn and the Russian overview at the start of theirs (so after the German move).

Compared with the overview of Turn 24, it shows some remarkable differences.

Despite a hefty production in Tanks, German tank strength has fallen by 14%, while the Russians managed to increase their tank strength by 100%.

The Russian advantage in Staff, Rifle and SMG is also increasing rapidly while German Infantry Strength has fallen by 10%.

The most unexpected figure found here is the fact the Luftwaffe's fighter strength is almost 25% higher than that of the Red Air Force's fighters. It has taken about 20 turns to repair the damage in that area, but the results are very welcome.

Overall, the Wehrmacht remains more lavishly equipped with supporting weaponry, especially the Mortar II units and of course more mobile. The investment in horses last year has paid off in the advances made during the last summer/fall campaign.

But... now the '43 production has come on-line. This makes the production war look like this:

Germany:
2 major centers (50k)
3 minor centers (15k)
6 captured minor (30k)

Total: 95k

Russia:
5 major centers (125k)
2 minor centers (10k)

Total: 135k

Without the '43 production and the pending fall of Baku, this game would surely have ended in a German victory. But now, the clock is ticking in favor of the Russians...




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/24/2008 11:23:44 AM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Germany, Turn 31, February 12, 1943

I divert some production to AG North. I have sufficient PP's now to upgrade to Rifle III, but I will be needing a truckload of supplies to upgrade my troops so the full effect of this upgrade will not be felt in the short term.




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/24/2008 2:51:15 PM   
Grymme

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 12/16/2007
Status: offline 		Really nice AAR

I have some thoughts/questions of a tactical nature.

If you look at the overview you can see that George uses Inf guns to some degreee. He hase 18 of them. Seille has none.

I am wondering in what role George uses them and for Seille, why he doesnt use them? there is clearly a difference in policy here.  

Also why neither of you seem to use scouts and/or AT-guns?

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Post #: 303
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/24/2008 3:03:19 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		AT guns are not bad, but i use them only in static defense.
At this point of the game i don´t want to be much longer defensive.
I want to attack. Unfortunately the only place i can do it is Leningrad....

Inf guns are offensive weapons. George bought his for defensive if i remember right
(he wrote this in one of his production reports). I have no idea how they perform
in defense, but in offensive they are not bad especially against fortifications.
I try to keep my forces at least at foot speed, so mortars are my choice. Use them mostly
in Leningrad together with SMG. A good combination.

I would like to use units like scouts, but i need PUNCH..POWER.
My opponent already fights with level III infantry, so i cannot waste any ressources
for scouts even i would like to use them. But i have to set priorities.
During this game i had never the luxus for extra research or extra units. I was happy to replace my losses.

AT gun...I used bazookas early in this game, but i was not happy with.
Imho they aren´t effective enough.

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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/24/2008 3:17:11 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		The idea I had was that Inf Guns are "rear area" troops, so they keep firing on the enemy during the entire battle. But in practice, I was more happy with mortars. They are rear area troops as well but it's less of a disaster if you lose one of them...

The Northern front shows AG North retreating to the West and the Finns entrenching in Leningrad. To mobilize troops recently hit by Seille air attack, I had to transfer out their guns to get my movement rate up in order to escape the inferno.




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/24/2008 3:21:29 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		In the South heavy battles are fought East of the Volga. The Russian rate of reinforcements is tremendous and I'm at a tactical disadvantage due to the fact the Russian can come from any direction.

Maikop is given up by the Russians. Almost 5 months after it was first captured, the city is now secured by the Romanian-led forces. Will there still be time to make the most of this success?




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/25/2008 1:47:47 PM   
Appren


Posts: 179
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline 		Enjoyed reading this AAR, and trying my luck against Seille myself in a game now, I wonder if he end up sending my Germans back to Berlin or not :)

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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/26/2008 12:40:03 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Russian turn 31.
Very hard fights with my focus on Leningrad and the south now.
Leningrad is nearly broken. Germans run away, so i can send most
of my fresh troops now to the south.
I also plan to send my planes down south as fast as possible.
At this point i had no idea that Germany had more fighters than i had overall.

As a addittional protection against the german plane masses in the south i plan
to give most of the units in Stalingrad area two flak guns. This will make german
air attacks much harder.




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/26/2008 12:42:06 PM   
seille

 

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From: Germany
Status: offline 		The north and center




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/26/2008 12:46:21 PM   
seille

 

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Status: offline 		The south.
We did some attacks with concentric bonus. Near Stalingrad the only way
to be successful against the germans.
The german units have a much better unit mix and a high advantage in XP.
All we can do now is to throw MASSES of reenforcements into the battle.
Two production centers support Stalingrad now. Unfortunately the open terrain is very bad for us
and we have no engineers there.




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/26/2008 3:01:19 PM   
TheArchduke


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Joined: 2/7/2008
Status: offline 		Off the top of my head I predict that the south will fall, if George turns south from Stalingrad, whilst he will loose the north. If this happens, well things could still develop into quite a stalemate..

Which was probably the case.
The question is if Helsinki is holdable if George doesn´t reinforce his northern flank.

< Message edited by TheArchduke -- 10/27/2008 7:00:04 AM >

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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/28/2008 8:26:31 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Germany, Turn 32, March 4, 1943

This turn I am pleasantly surprised by a spell of very good weather. Since both Stalingrad and Maikop are starting to produce now and Leningrad is still in my hands (though not for long), on the production side, things look bright.

I was unpleasantly surprised by the fact that Seille upgraded to Rifle III just one turn after me. He had some very good luck getting two R&D events in quick succession. One other thing I noticed during this AAR, is that my U-Boat arm was completely ineffective. Not a single Murmansk convoy was hit in the whole game up until this turn...

But, as I already had some Rifle III in some front-line units, better mobility and only green troops opposing me in several key areas, this was the time to hit hard.




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/28/2008 8:27:35 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		(This hitting hard excludes the Northern part of the front, ahem)




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/28/2008 8:29:18 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		In the Center the SS shows what fully mechanized and experienced units can do against a feeble opponent in good weather.




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/28/2008 8:34:56 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		In the South the battles rage on. The situation at Stalingrad is now most critical, since the Russians on the East bank of the Volga are getting stronger, while AG South's strength is not going as fast as its opponent's. If I'd had Baku now, I would not have had any problems keeping this area under control.

Nevertheless I launch a series of attacks and enlarge the bridgehead and straighten my lines to prevent counter-attacks. If Seille needs to divert troops to other sectors I might still come out of this fight on top...

The Romanians pursue the Russians towards Baku, but the poor terrain hampers my advance.




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/28/2008 8:49:06 PM   
TheArchduke


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Status: offline 		Seeing the massive forces east of Stalingrad why did you decide that diverting forces were a good idea? Especially the Luftwaffe retreat puzzles me.

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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/28/2008 8:56:25 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		One of the drawbacks of an AAR is that I don't always remember why I made some moves. This is one of them. The most logical reason I can think of is that I was planning to send it to support AG North in case of some catastrophe in the North... But in hindsight, it was a pretty bad decision.

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Post #: 317
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/28/2008 9:08:20 PM   
Smirfy

 

Posts: 1057
Joined: 7/16/2004
Status: offline 		Hi great AAR. I was wondering in the South how much effort would it have taken to put some LB's between Baku and Sevastopol to reduce both. Is it a viable tactic in MP?

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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/28/2008 11:13:35 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I´ll answer for George. Most of the time i had seveal locations well protected by Flak and/or fighters.
In Sevastopol i had a couple of flak which would make any levelbombing expensive and not very effective.
In Baku i had some fighters, so LB attacks are possible only with enough fighters escort.
But it would have been possible.
I think George had not enough production capacity and lost already too many of his initial 10 LB.
I use LB myself not very often. They are effective only with a good surprise and if you come with higher numbers
for a one time knockout. The next turn the target is usually hard defended....

I´ll do my next turn tomorrow

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Post #: 319
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/29/2008 9:43:28 AM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		I had no real experience in using LB against cities, so I wasn't sure of their effectiveness. During this game I used most of them in the ground attack role. I don't really know how many bombers it would take to level a minor or major production center, maybe something to try out in a game against the AI.

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Post #: 320
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/29/2008 10:24:11 AM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		You would need about 20 LB for a very good one time effect to major production sites.
Flak defense would reduce the effect a lot, so i would not call LB a safe bet.
In a europe 1939 game i used LB IV. They have power. This is real destruction.
But in a russia game i would wonder if somebody will go to levelbomber III or IV....

< Message edited by seille -- 10/29/2008 10:43:36 AM >

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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/29/2008 10:26:48 AM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Russian turn 32.

Not enough prodution this turn, but we needed all the PPs to egalize the german advance in tech.
German propaganda want the readers thinking we get our tech for free (like Germany), but we have
to work for !!






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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/29/2008 10:35:44 AM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		The north:

A good place to be for a russian soldier. Here they survive at least 6 months
while in the south usually less than 2 month´s after the commanders threw
them into the fight without enough training.

The red army recaptured Leningrad using strong air and artillery assets
and is now on their way to attack Helsinki. In a second direction we go to Riga.
At least the russian command thinks the forces are strong enough to go for both targets.
We´ll see if this is true. We have to reduce the german production power and we have to force them to
reenforce the north.




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/29/2008 10:40:08 AM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		In the south the situation is dramatic.
We have actually no chance to fight the germans back to Stalingrad and reconnect Baku
to the russian empire. Near Baku it looks not much better. Even we installed a nice front
north of Baku (as a defense against AG south from Stalingrad) we have not much left to stop the romanians
west of Baku. All we can do is to retreat and use the terrain as good as possible.
Each turn we can delay the fall of Baku is good for Russia !! And it´s obviously yet that we can only delay the fall
of the city.




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/29/2008 10:42:33 AM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		For Voronezh/Kursk area i have no screenshot, but after the arrival of SS units there
and the Luftwaffe i´m now in full defense. Our lines are stable there.
Sevastopol the same. But Germany tries to cross the Kerch straight now.
They want Sevastopol. But the crimea is well defended....

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Post #: 325
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/29/2008 11:53:49 AM   
TheArchduke


Posts: 407
Joined: 2/7/2008
Status: offline 		Is Sevastopol still able to produce anything apart from supplies as it is cut off now?

Can´t wait to see how this campaign turns out.

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Post #: 326
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/29/2008 12:09:42 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Look at my production posting
I actually produce 820 supply and two artillery guns.
Lol, i must have been still optimistic here.....

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Post #: 327
RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/29/2008 4:27:21 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Germany, Turn 33, March 24, 1943

Russia struck back as expected, but I'm not worried about that. What worries me more is the alarming rate at which new Russian armies appear in the steppe, which means that sending reinforcements North is out of the question... Baku, Baku, I need Baku!!




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/29/2008 4:28:12 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		The situation in the North and the Crimea:




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RE: George vs. Seille - A Russia 1941 AAR over 60 turns - 10/29/2008 4:31:05 PM   
george1972

 

Posts: 366
Joined: 6/19/2008
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		The "Death's Head" offensive is coming up against well-prepared enemy positions... Still, I scared the "mighty" Shock armies away from Kharkov and Kursk. Heroes of the Soviet Union, ha!




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