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Stealth fighter question - 12/22/2008 5:26:46 AM

Cyrano dX

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Joined: 11/22/2008
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Was playing the Hot Rocks scenario from the EC2003 GUIK battleset, blue side. Latest db.

In it you have at your disposal 8 F-117's. I tried using them as specified (at night, High altitude) and as soon as they entered a radar zone (groups of 2) they were immediately shot down.

Am I using them incorrectly ?
Will the B2's get shot down just as quickly ?

Thanks

< Message edited by JohnnyNeptune -- 12/22/2008 5:27:36 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Stealth fighter question - 12/22/2008 6:57:56 AM

Cyrano dX

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Actually I think I figured it out. You need to send send in one plane at a time. In other words no groups. They went undetected once I sent them in solo.

(in reply to Cyrano dX)

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Harpoon Classic Scenarios - 12/22/2008 8:14:09 AM

hermanhum

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Now, you have piqued my interest...

Why should it be any different if you sent in groups of the planes as opposed to the an individual aircraft?

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RE: Harpoon Classic Scenarios - 12/22/2008 8:46:36 AM

Cyrano dX

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Only thing I can think of is that when going solo the game calculates radar return differently than when in a group ???

All I know is when I sent in a group of two's they got shot down at 4 different targets (with radar cover)the moment they entered missile range.
When I sent them in solo, they all hit the targets and got out without getting noticed.

(in reply to hermanhum)

Post #: 4

RE: Stealth fighter question - 12/23/2008 6:40:09 PM

CV32

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From: The Rock, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnnyNeptune
Was playing the Hot Rocks scenario from the EC2003 GUIK battleset, blue side. Latest db. In it you have at your disposal 8 F-117's. I tried using them as specified (at night, High altitude) and as soon as they entered a radar zone (groups of 2) they were immediately shot down. Am I using them incorrectly ? Will the B2's get shot down just as quickly ? Thanks

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnnyNeptune
Actually I think I figured it out. You need to send send in one plane at a time. In other words no groups. They went undetected once I sent them in solo.

A group of two aircraft shouldn't be any more detectable than a single aircraft. Larger groups do have a negative effect on detectability.

Not sure why you had bad luck with groups of two, other than to say that (1) the enemy air defense system (IADS) in the "Hot Rocks" scenario is pretty dense; (2) the F-117 is not invisible; and (3) there are means of detection other than radar.

_____________________________

Brad Leyte
HC3 development group member for HCE
Author of HCDB official database for HCE
Harpgamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to Cyrano dX)

Post #: 5

RE: Stealth fighter question - 12/23/2008 7:39:20 PM

Cyrano dX

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quote:

A group of two aircraft shouldn't be any more detectable than a single aircraft. Larger groups do have a negative effect on detectability.

That's what I thought as well.

quote:

Not sure why you had bad luck with groups of two, other than to say that (1) the enemy air defense system (IADS) in the "Hot Rocks" scenario is pretty dense; (2) the F-117 is not invisible; and (3) there are means of detection other than radar.

What surprised me was that it was at the edge of the radar coverage at night (high alt) with no enemy planes in the vicinity. 4 different groups of two and all got shot down immediately at different locations around Iceland. Ran the exact same attack solo (same path) and all hit and got out unscathed.
No big deal, I'll probably run the scenario again just to see if I can repeat both the shoot down and the successful attack. When I do, I'll report the results. Maybe it was just weird bad luck.

Subsequently I ran the SIOP scenario, I sent the B2's solo into the heart of the Kola peninsula radar coverage at night (med/high alt), hit the targets and got out no problem.

(in reply to CV32)

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RE: Stealth fighter question - 12/24/2008 2:02:10 AM

TonyE

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From: MN, USA
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Consider me interested too. If you had a B-2 and an F-117 in the same group I could a little bit understand a greater detection percentage (if you have two units in the group then you have two sensor chances against the group instead of one). But two F-117s are treated as a single unit but qty 2 internally and don't give that same two detection tries (except if the two F-117s have different loadouts).

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Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to Cyrano dX)

Post #: 7

Harpoon Classic Scenarios - 12/24/2008 2:58:10 AM

hermanhum

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I tested for this problem and was unable to confirm it.

I used the Hot Rocks scenario, set up a test situation, and had the F-117s attack my red bases in pairs. I did not detect them until about 3nm away. Sometimes, I did not detect them at all and they successfully delivered their bombs unmolested. The ones that got detected were shot down. I never detected them at maximum range of my SAMs.

I think that your bomb groups may very well have been detected by a fighter on patrol or an airborne radar. If you see something different, please post up a saved game file so that everyone can take a look at it.

Sorry, I was unable to replicate your results.

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RE: Harpoon Classic Scenarios - 12/24/2008 6:03:41 AM

Cyrano dX

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OK I ran the scenario again and the results weren't as clear cut as the first time where the solo planes were far more successful than the grouped ones.
Most groups (not all) still got detected and shot at at the edge of the SAM cirlces, the Solos usually (not always) went undetected, hit their targets and sometimes were shot at afterwards.
I think that the first time I ran it I must have inflicted some damage to their air defenses before sending the solo attacks. I think I would need to run dozens of attack runs to make any conclusive remarks.

I also noticed that (I think) that sending them in at medium altitude was better than high. Again not scientific since I ran too few sample attacks to make any conclusive observations.

My overall impression is that to use these F117's best, its best to degrade air defenses so as to make sure detection circles don't overlap, make sure (as much as possible) other airplanes aren't in the area and then send in solo planes at medium altitude at night. I'm not so certain that solo vs Group is that big of deal but I'll need to run more tests.

(in reply to hermanhum)

Post #: 9