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Designer Shortcoming: GoA

 
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Designer Shortcoming: GoA - 12/23/2008 5:56:44 PM   
mantrain

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline 		I think that this game, alought fun to play, could have been designed in a more imecable manner, particulry with respect to Amphib operations. It's beyond me how, when playing triple Entente, I can control corresponding sea zones. allocated amphib transport, and it's willy nilly whether or not amphip will be able to occur. It seems very arbitrary, and know way for a commander to know, at what point he will, or will not be able to amphib.
Post #: 1
RE: Designer Shortcoming: GoA - 12/23/2008 9:30:57 PM   
FM WarB

 

Posts: 292
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline 		The naval game is very abstracted. I'm not even sure which coastal hexes are amphibiously invadable as there are no map port graphics. and I've been concentratieng on the CP.

(in reply to mantrain)
Post #: 2
RE: Designer Shortcoming: GoA - 1/8/2009 3:31:58 PM   
warguppy

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 1/4/2009
Status: offline 		Before I say anything I'll admit to not owning the game yet. But I will say one thing  about the subject that, regardless of  not owning the game, is still true. Amphibious operations were rare in WW I and generally didn't go off well so I would think that it's more of a reflection of historical reality than poor design. But as I said, I don't own the game and am merely commenting on how things were historically.

_____________________________

It's all fun and games til someone gets hurt. then it's just fun.

(in reply to FM WarB)
Post #: 3
RE: Designer Shortcoming: GoA - 1/9/2009 10:27:53 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Actually there were rather a lot of amphibious operations in WW1 - but they were generally not on hte scale of WW2 or Gallipoli, and normally the commanders recognised that they were pretty dodgy and didn't carry them out in the face of expected opposition - examples of significant forces (eg a brigade or more) apart from Gallipoli include German operations in the Baltic especially the offshore islands, and the British invasions of East Africa in 1914.

As for naval & amphib ops in the game - it's definitely not the most user-friendly interface.....but it is workable IMO - you get used to it after a while.

(in reply to warguppy)
Post #: 4
RE: Designer Shortcoming: GoA - 1/10/2009 4:20:05 PM   
warguppy

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 1/4/2009
Status: offline 		I suppose it's a matter of interpretation. Amphib ops on a tactical scale I don't think really count as 'operations' per se. But I suppose it's a matter of semantics...

_____________________________

It's all fun and games til someone gets hurt. then it's just fun.

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 5
RE: Designer Shortcoming: GoA - 1/11/2009 4:18:16 PM   
mantrain

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline 		After some experience I have gotten past my amphib problems....I still haven't been able to amphib into enemy controlled hexes, though I am not sure I would be well-advised to do so.

(in reply to warguppy)
Post #: 6
RE: Designer Shortcoming: GoA - 1/11/2009 5:49:50 PM   
Stwa


Posts: 484
Joined: 8/12/2005
Status: offline 		For some reason, I was under the inpression you could only amphib from port to port? And you must control the sea hexes along the way, right?

(in reply to mantrain)
Post #: 7
RE: Designer Shortcoming: GoA - 1/22/2009 5:25:56 PM   
EWGuttag


Posts: 81
Joined: 1/20/2009
Status: offline 		Stwa and mantrain,

You can only amphib from port (and not all ports, London being an example of one that doesn't work) to port, and you must also control the Sea Zone to do it.  Also, you need to allocate at least 4 transports to the Sea Zone to make an amphib happen.  In fact, one strategy for the CP player who does a West move into France (via Schlieffen) is to contest the North Sea to try to block the British initially from getting onto the continent (at least for some period of time).  From what I've seen amphib in the Med is trickier as you usually have fewer units for the TE to amphib if you're relying on the few units you get in Egypt.  (I'm not sure you can even amphib all the way from England, and it would at least require amphib transports in each Sea Zone you use.)  It likely gets easier to amphib in the Med later for the TE, especially when Italy comes in and you can amphib from an Adriatic port that's in the East Med Zone.  My 2 cents for what it's worth.

(in reply to Stwa)
Post #: 8
RE: Designer Shortcoming: GoA - 1/23/2009 9:06:20 AM   
hjaco

 

Posts: 872
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		I have some corrections to some of this

First it depends on which patch you are using, but this is how it is supposed to work:

1) You must control all sea areas through which you will move troops. Control is determined after 3 naval combat rounds each strategy phase based on the remaining number of ships equalling a number of points (DN=10, BC=8, PD=5, CA=3, DN=1 these numbers are being changed in the latest beta patch but I don't have the hard numbers on those) and you need a superiority in points of at least 3:1.

2) Units can move from port cities to port cities whether transporting of invading. And yes these are sadly not clearly marked on the map but you quickly find out which they are.

3) In order to invade you need to activate the invading unit with an HQ.

4) Each hex can be invaded by 1 unit each impulse. If combat is lost the unit is destroyed. Otherwise you will get a contested combat hex. There doesn't seem to be a direct penalty to invasion but readiness will decrease each impulse if hex is contested due to supply shortage.

5) You can reinvade a contested hex thereby committing more units to the combat but only with one unit per impulse.

6) Amphibious movement always only use up one point of amphibious point in each sea area it is being transported through i.e. you need one transport on amphibious orders in order to invade with one unit.

Hope this clarify matters somewhat

A hint to improve naval amphibious capacity for the Entente. Concentrate on getting your large 15' mobilization troops to France, move them strategically to Venice/Trieste and you only need to dominate the Eastern Mediterranean.

With regards to historic use of naval amphibious invasions in WW1 there actually was a surprising number of strategic invasions. Take the Ottomans. They were invaded at Fao (Basra) by the Indians opening a route to Baghdad, Gallipoli by Anzac, at Rize by the Russians (Trabzon) forcing the Ottomans to withdraw from a major strategic objective and a strategic front opening at Saloniki.

(in reply to EWGuttag)
Post #: 9
RE: Designer Shortcoming: GoA - 1/23/2009 3:23:20 PM   
Stwa


Posts: 484
Joined: 8/12/2005
Status: offline 		Very informative, and this makes me wan't to ask another question, which might be a little off topic. But I have wondered why there was an "India" fortress in the lower right of the map. I quess now I know, but I was wondering if this really needed to be included or was it a really big part of the war etc. The India fortress seems really out of place to me, and maybe it could just be omitted?

(in reply to hjaco)
Post #: 10
RE: Designer Shortcoming: GoA - 1/23/2009 4:37:28 PM   
hjaco

 

Posts: 872
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		Following Turkey siding with the Germans, the British declared war on the Ottoman Empire on November 5, 1914. On November 6, the British landed the British Expeditionary Force (Indians) along the Persian Gulf and attacked the Turkish fort at Fao Landing. 3 to 4 divisions participated which fits well with the first Indian Corps in GOA. By the end of the month the British captured and occupied the province of Basra. It was initially a pre-emptive move by the British-Indian task force to protect the oil pipelines at Abadan and secure British interests within the region.

Persia is not included in GOA but was separated in a Russian and British sphere of influence with the remaining more or less not-interesting part being initially neutral. The southwestern part with large known oil deposits was in the british part called "Arabistan". This was in the pré saudiarabian oil deposit days so world oil reserves was not that numerous.

This landing made for the big push for Baghdad in 15' ending with the infamous retreat to Kut and one of the largest and most humiliating surrenders ever made by the British Army.

So it was in part a very important part of the war in that theater. And this is simulated in that you can "walk" from India to Basra i.e. you don't have to invade. Remove India and you remove that threat

(in reply to Stwa)
Post #: 11
RE: Designer Shortcoming: GoA - 1/23/2009 6:11:10 PM   
EWGuttag


Posts: 81
Joined: 1/20/2009
Status: offline 		Hjaco,

Thanks for the clarification on how many amphib transports are needed.  I usually have 4 in the North Sea so you can easily transport BR units to Belgium/France.

(in reply to hjaco)
Post #: 12
RE: Designer Shortcoming: GoA - 1/23/2009 6:12:37 PM   
EWGuttag


Posts: 81
Joined: 1/20/2009
Status: offline 		Hjaco,

I also agree with your strategy of moving to the Adriatic ports to make it easier to transport more units in the East Med to Turkey.  You just don't get that many showing up in Egypt.

(in reply to EWGuttag)
Post #: 13
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