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RE: Philadelphia affair - 2/5/2009 12:34:07 PM

JastaV

Posts: 97
Joined: 9/20/2008
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quote:

Too bad about the Philadelphia AI behavior: opportunity lost
lesson learned: Zip a saved game immediately when you think you see AI misbehavior, then you can keep playing.

Yes opportunity lost and my fault! Have to agree!
Unfortunately I had major practice with NCP, where all turns for a scenario are saved and available at the campaing end. That was possibly because NCP scenarios are shorter than 24 game turns... I just discovered later only 24 game turns are saved with WIA!

quote:

What is your setting for attrition option in main menu?

Hard, historical attrition rules for player and AI.

quote:

Are the depleted units taking replacements [missing elements being added] or regaining strength ['red elements' improving]?

Good question!
I was referring to depleted units regaining strenght ['red elements' improving]: it happens at any region even when a depot is not present.
Again NCP practice deceived me: [missing elements being added] is not working in NCP!
I noticed it happens occasionally with WIA: it's a quite rare event.... I was thinking it was a random event action.

(in reply to dunnsa)

Post #: 31

RE: Philadelphia affair - 2/5/2009 1:03:42 PM

dunnsa

Posts: 75
Joined: 7/28/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JastaV
I was referring to depleted units regaining strenght ['red elements' improving]: it happens at any region even when a depot is not present.
Again NCP practice deceived me: [missing elements being added] is not working in NCP!
I noticed it happens occasionally with WIA: it's a quite rare event.... I was thinking it was a random event action.

Take care: BoA, NCP, AACW and WIA have significant differences in C&C, Supply, Attrition, etc. etc. even though they share some commonality in the 'engine'

AFAIK, Depleted elements in WIA have always regained strength in structures. Slowly, epecially in winter, but they have gained. They do gain very very slowly 'in the wild', but usually starve in Winter before you see this...

RTM: Replacing missing elements depends on your Historical Attrition setting [also see tooltip there]:
At 'none', you must be in level 2 city or higher
At 'player only' and 'Player and AI' you must be at a depot.
In any case, you must have replacements [F2 in ledger] of the type used by the missing element

This Attrition option is one of the many many signnificant changes from BoA, which taken together change the game and your strategy quite a bit.

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(in reply to JastaV)

Post #: 32

Philadelphia affair - 2/5/2009 2:41:25 PM

JastaV

Posts: 97
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline

It's back!
Here is last oddity from a large battle in Philadelphia region.

- The battle resulted in a stalemate. None the less the USA, (AI side) suffered twice losses tham Player side, British.
- Usually stalemate result in a second engagement, (Combat round) in a later day. In the example The US force retired! Is that strange?
- The Retreat path is quite odd too. I was expecting USA forces should retire within the city, Philadelphia.
They instead retired to Princeton region: notice, Princeton is British controlled, with a garrisoned British fort too.
Having the USA force to retreat it should move, but within Philadelfia walls at least to a friendly controlled region: Carryel Ferry for example!

Hope the thing, the report and the attached game files will be usefull to you: I included some game turns before the engagement, the engagement turn, the post engagement turn.

Game files uploaded here:
http://rapidshare.com/files/182499259/1755_Campaign0.rar

Remember: WIA, Official patch 1.04c, "The white of your eyes" scenario, British side player.

Notice: saved files and troubles e-mailed to AGEod support too!

< Message edited by JastaV -- 2/5/2009 2:56:40 PM >

(in reply to dunnsa)

Post #: 33

RE: Philadelphia affair - 2/5/2009 3:13:40 PM

dunnsa

Posts: 75
Joined: 7/28/2008
Status: offline

It might help if you would upload the correct save.

USA did not fight in the 1755 campaign

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Post #: 34

RE: Philadelphia affair - 2/5/2009 6:26:18 PM

JastaV

Posts: 97
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline

Lodilefty,
I please you to give posted files a glance: last game turn is relative to 1780, July from "The White of your eyes".
The save name for the campaign is quite strange: do not ask me reasons for, do not know them.

(in reply to dunnsa)

Post #: 35

RE: Philadelphia affair - 2/5/2009 6:48:02 PM

JastaV

Posts: 97
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline

Got reply from AGeod Support:

quote:

Wayne's Army was already assigned move to Princeton. This increased probability of retreat path to that location for Lee's Army, to consolidate forces and reinforce Wayne's attack.
Caryell Ferry has 'low interest'. See parameters in "Control&Retreat.opt" under \Settings Princeton has City, Fort, Depot, creating high interest.
American's didn't retreat into structure because a garrison exists there. Also were not set to 'retreat inside', as that is often suicidal.

Americans took 26 hits while retreating. [see report line after battle report line]
British were set to attack, not assault, so after inflicting hits during retreat, no further battle. Siege started.
British assaulted across a river, so were at reduced cohesion at start of battle. You are lucky any battle was even fought, and lucky to get a draw, as low cohesion will stop battles now. You are lucky that a poor commander [Charles Lee] was your opponent.

In summary, it appears fully explainable, and to me acceptable.
The retreat choices are not an AI issue, as same calculations will result with human player.
Could these parameters be tweaked? Yes, but to what? And to what effect on other situations.

Great explanation, very logic in game term, as militiry operations!
Guess no need for tweeks!
Very apreciated the so quick reply!

I'll go on with the game!
Notice I'm now in a very advantageus position: I'm sitting in front of the almost ungarrisoned enemy capital ready to assault it.
We can move "critics" to the AI decision of leaving Philadelphia ungarrisoned: A mistake! But military history pages are full with mistakes that decided battles and wars. I can trust all that!

(in reply to JastaV)

Post #: 36

RE: Philadelphia affair - 2/5/2009 7:15:18 PM

comte

Posts: 2358
Joined: 2/4/2009
From: Be'eri, Hadarom, Israel
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Jasta doesn't this game have a sanitation effect as well that the other games dont have? Good or bad sanitation effects attrition right?

(in reply to JastaV)

Post #: 37

RE: Philadelphia affair - 2/5/2009 8:38:26 PM

JastaV

Posts: 97
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aces8

Jasta doesn't this game have a sanitation effect as well that the other games dont have? Good or bad sanitation effects attrition right?

Sanitation effect?
English is not my other language so I can get confused!

Are you referring to the fact player go insane with bugs?
This aspect seems to be resolved with last patch...... isolated, scenario bugs are till possible, but hopely they could be a little thing!

Are you referring to the fact player go insane with AI opposition?
I hope so!
Extensive guerillas by AI USA forces is a terrible opponent: I love it!
And it's historically accurate for the AI side in the scenario I'm playing!

Are you referring to the game Attrition rules?
Well, they can be modulated at player will.
I was using very realistic historical attrition rules: that means terrible losses for troops unsheltered in winter weather and YES sanitation problems.... epidemics can strike troops in greater stacks, (some thousand men per stack): the fact is notified as losses caused by bad sanitary conditions in the game!

Guess JastaV will have to re-formulate his WIA review......

(in reply to comte)

Post #: 38

RE: Winter operations - 2/5/2009 8:56:48 PM

JastaV

Posts: 97
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blueprint

It's then true download links have been broken!
By you...Your choice.

Last uploaded NCP MT install version was not perfect.

It was "work in progress", in part suffering from NCP engine troubles, in part suffering from my editing mistakes.
I was used to update NCP MT installattions, posting links to new versions frequentely, sometime with more new versions per day. (It does not mean any day!).
Any former MT member, Nikel, BB, arsan, should honestely confirm that!

Unfortunately last time I removed old NCP MT instal upload, replacing it with the updated one, I was not more able to post relative link at AGEod site, because I discovered I have been banned in the meanwhile!

Then, It's true NCP and its mods are no hosted at this site: matrixgame is not selling NCP!
So no other site was available for posting download link.

It's then true that improvements and modders' support is part of a modding activity: as regard I'm no more able to post in reply to questions.

Then, MT team has been dismissed: I broke contact, (It was not my choice!) with Nikel the graphic editor behind MT mods. As a result I have no more permission to post his artworks.... I'm not used to post 3rd party material without authors permission!

As soon the conditions should be restored, if any, I'll be pleased to post link to last NCP MT version I recentely worked!

(in reply to Blueprint)

Post #: 39

RE: Winter operations - 2/5/2009 9:55:50 PM

Blueprint

Posts: 72
Joined: 8/26/2003
Status: offline

I may wage wars but I largely prefer peace.

If interested and if possible, send me the link : i will post it on Ageod board.

(in reply to JastaV)

Post #: 40

RE: Philadelphia affair - 2/5/2009 10:11:25 PM

dunnsa

Posts: 75
Joined: 7/28/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aces8

Jasta doesn't this game have a sanitation effect as well that the other games dont have? Good or bad sanitation effects attrition right?

yes. effective from October to May, 15% probability each turn, subunit count >=52

he got lucky

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Post #: 41

RE: Philadelphia affair - 2/5/2009 10:14:07 PM

dunnsa

Posts: 75
Joined: 7/28/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JastaV

Lodilefty,
I please you to give posted files a glance: last game turn is relative to 1780, July from "The White of your eyes".
The save name for the campaign is quite strange: do not ask me reasons for, do not know them.

look again. the file downloaded is 1755 campaign.
support email had different files

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Post #: 42

RE: Philadelphia affair - 2/5/2009 10:56:13 PM

JastaV

Posts: 97
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lodilefty

quote:

ORIGINAL: JastaV

Lodilefty,
I please you to give posted files a glance: last game turn is relative to 1780, July from "The White of your eyes".
The save name for the campaign is quite strange: do not ask me reasons for, do not know them.

look again. the file downloaded is 1755 campaign.
support email had different files

Guess you are right.
File sent to AGEod Support was "1775 Campaign_02of.rar" while one at rapidshare is "1755_Campaign0.rar".
I apologize for the troubles and confusion I caused you.
I definitely need to put some order in my PC desktop and to clean my USB storage tools: I'm till using an off-line PC while gaming and a second PC for net connection!

(in reply to dunnsa)

Post #: 43

RE: Winter operations - 2/5/2009 11:06:20 PM

JastaV

Posts: 97
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blueprint

I may wage wars but I largely prefer peace.

If interested and if possible, send me the link : i will post it on Ageod board.

You have many to loose from this war; I have nothing to gain!
A good reason to chose peace.

I'm already managing the thing by some old friend: I'd like to keep that all at a place where I can take part to the debate and support assistance........ possibly a board where I'm not "detested throughout those forums"!

(in reply to Blueprint)

Post #: 44

last patch improvements - 2/6/2009 4:01:27 PM

JastaV

Posts: 97
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline

image from old patch 1.04c beta

image from patch 1.04c official

The game turn is the same: 1780 December.

With the beta we had a mess of EP: 643, that although all options were expended as soon as they were available.
With "1.04c official" EP availability is dramatically reduced, expecialy in first years of the scenario, when player have to decide in favour of an option, missing some others for EP shortage.
That's great and forces player to strategic decisions and overseeing to capitalize few resources.
Notice, in last game turns player side, here British, is taking a decisive advantage over the AI. EP point start to accumulate, because perhaps of increased number of controlled objectives and captures(?).
The number of available Options seems to be decreased... Is that a scenario editor choice, taking in account British tireness for war in the colonies?

Anyway very good! Another game aspects really improved!
I assume that same was with other scenarios.

A QUESTION!
The FE counter for the British is negative!
None the less France and Spaign already entered the war supporting US rebels: FE counter was negative at that time too.
Are we sure options modifying FE in British favour actually delate France and Spaign intervention in the war?

(in reply to JastaV)

Post #: 45

RE: Winter operations - 2/6/2009 9:08:38 PM

JastaV

Posts: 97
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blueprint

http://www.play.com/Games/PC/4-/6059652/Birth-Of-America-II-Wars-In-America-1750-1815/Product.html

http://www.play.com/Games/PC/4-/5282600/Napoleon-Campaigns/Product.html

http://www.play.com/Games/PC/4-/6059656/World-War-One/Product.html

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/birthofamericaiiwarsinamerica17501815/player_review.html?id=639749&tag=player-reviews;continue;2

Don' t feed the troll, even when this troll worked some hundred hours to produce a mod for AGEOD Napoleon Campaigns.... By the way, do you know JastaV has deleted the mod file some weeks ago? Troll's courtesy for players indeed.

The troll, after so righful reviews handmade for such a disastrous game like WIA, should play others... Or is it baffled by the lack of better other games? Or is the troll just a fool with an overinflated ego ?

Stay tuned. The troll being always right, the troll will have a definitive reply.

I decided to waste Blueprint's review hunting pleasure!
Here is my last short review to WIA at wargamers.com:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/birth-of-america-2-pc-game-review.htm#comment-7564

I posted it as comment to the official review hosted by the site.
I tracked the story of the product from its release to last patch; I reported some personal regrets as regard missing features from AACW and NCP that I'd have liked to see at work with WIA too; evalutation of AI, game challenge is positive, as is to be after last patch publication. Graphically the game is to be judged for that it is... WIA cannot compete with Warhammer Mark of Chaos, with Total War series and so on..... but it was not marketed to compete with such games.
I love and play chess; I keep away from playing hazard, but admire poker: so the comparison is a way to apreciate WIA!

NOTICE: I did not pointed out that I consider an AGEod mistake: producer prices to high in comparison to retail sellers' one.
I have already my copy of the game; do not mind to buy any other for me.. so my uninterested suggestion is Ageod should reconsider WIA price,: we are 7 months from game release, now!

(in reply to Blueprint)

Post #: 46

RE: Winter operations - 2/7/2009 9:52:34 AM

Blueprint

Posts: 72
Joined: 8/26/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JastaV

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blueprint

I may wage wars but I largely prefer peace.

If interested and if possible, send me the link : i will post it on Ageod board.

You have many to loose from this war; I have nothing to gain!
A good reason to chose peace.

I'm already managing the thing by some old friend: I'd like to keep that all at a place where I can take part to the debate and support assistance........ possibly a board where I'm not "detested throughout those forums"!

you will never understand peace.

(in reply to JastaV)

Post #: 47

RE: Winter operations - 2/7/2009 10:37:02 AM

Gray_Lensman

Posts: 640
Joined: 4/10/2003
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blueprint

quote:

ORIGINAL: JastaV

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blueprint

I may wage wars but I largely prefer peace.

If interested and if possible, send me the link : i will post it on Ageod board.

You have many to loose from this war; I have nothing to gain!
A good reason to chose peace.

I'm already managing the thing by some old friend: I'd like to keep that all at a place where I can take part to the debate and support assistance........ possibly a board where I'm not "detested throughout those forums"!

you will never understand peace.

That's because he can never accept answers he doesn't like.

< Message edited by Gray_Lensman -- 2/7/2009 11:02:23 AM >

(in reply to Blueprint)

Post #: 48

RE: Winter operations - 2/7/2009 11:31:56 AM

dunnsa

Posts: 75
Joined: 7/28/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gray_Lensman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blueprint

quote:

ORIGINAL: JastaV

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blueprint

I may wage wars but I largely prefer peace.

If interested and if possible, send me the link : i will post it on Ageod board.

You have many to loose from this war; I have nothing to gain!
A good reason to chose peace.

I'm already managing the thing by some old friend: I'd like to keep that all at a place where I can take part to the debate and support assistance........ possibly a board where I'm not "detested throughout those forums"!

you will never understand peace.

That's because he can never accept answers he doesn't like.

Like failure to comprehend the differences in Command and Control in the 18th Century North American conflicts vs. the 'serious wars' in Europe?
I'm very weary of trying to explain the historical basis to those who won't listen.

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Post #: 49

RE: Philadelphia affair - 2/7/2009 11:51:37 AM

dunnsa

Posts: 75
Joined: 7/28/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JastaV

quote:

ORIGINAL: lodilefty

Please zip and send saved game with at least two previous turns to support@ageod.com

Incluse a brief reference to your post in your email

You know I know the routine lodilefty!
Have to point out, last two times I sent saved turns to support@ageod.com I did not get any reply.......
It was a time when AGEod was very apreciated, at least for courtesy!
..... I'll give it a last chance!

You should make it clear that at least one email you sent was 'ignored' because it contained follow-up data for a forum conversation....

< Message edited by lodilefty -- 2/7/2009 12:00:51 PM >

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Post #: 50

RE: Winter operations - 2/7/2009 1:26:48 PM

JastaV

Posts: 97
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lodilefty
Like failure to comprehend the differences in Command and Control in the 18th Century North American conflicts vs. the 'serious wars' in Europe?
I'm very weary of trying to explain the historical basis to those who won't listen.

Wait!
I agree with you over differences.
In NCP and AACW we have Armies, corps, divisions, brigades.
In WIA we could have, Armies, columns, "divisions", march detachments.
Yes the terms are different, but we could have a common command chain system adding depth to game.
IT SHOULD BE WITH GAME ADVANTAGE!

Leaders promotion: you cannot say leaders where not promoted at WIA times.

Marching to sound of guns: A nice feature to add some planning and grand-tactical depth to a game mainly focused over logistic problems..... an aspect few gamers apreciate.
Notice, I apreciate logistic management but it's not a good reason to miss some fine grandtactical and manouvering issue.

(in reply to dunnsa)

Post #: 51

RE: Philadelphia affair - 2/7/2009 1:31:14 PM

JastaV

Posts: 97
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lodilefty
You should make it clear that at least one email you sent was 'ignored' because it contained follow-up data for a forum conversation....

Do not understand!
All my notifications from last week to AGEod got a kind and quikly reply.
BTW, I did not mentioned here last notification I sent because mainly related to game improvements than bug reporting!
No problems with AGEod support in last week from me!

(in reply to dunnsa)

Post #: 52

RE: Winter operations - 2/7/2009 1:37:41 PM

JastaV

Posts: 97
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blueprint

quote:

ORIGINAL: JastaV

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blueprint

I may wage wars but I largely prefer peace.

If interested and if possible, send me the link : i will post it on Ageod board.

You have many to loose from this war; I have nothing to gain!
A good reason to chose peace.

I'm already managing the thing by some old friend: I'd like to keep that all at a place where I can take part to the debate and support assistance........ possibly a board where I'm not "detested throughout those forums"!

you will never understand peace.

I'm not interested to post mod download links to a board where I have no access for public debate and where I'm publicly detested!
Guess it should be not hard to understand!

(in reply to Blueprint)

Post #: 53

RE: Winter operations - 2/7/2009 2:09:08 PM

dunnsa

Posts: 75
Joined: 7/28/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JastaV

quote:

ORIGINAL: lodilefty
Like failure to comprehend the differences in Command and Control in the 18th Century North American conflicts vs. the 'serious wars' in Europe?
I'm very weary of trying to explain the historical basis to those who won't listen.

Wait!
I agree with you over differences.
In NCP and AACW we have Armies, corps, divisions, brigades.
In WIA we could have, Armies, columns, "divisions", march detachments.
Yes the terms are different, but we could have a common command chain system adding depth to game.
IT SHOULD BE WITH GAME ADVANTAGE!

Leaders promotion: you cannot say leaders where not promoted at WIA times.

Marching to sound of guns: A nice feature to add some planning and grand-tactical depth to a game mainly focused over logistic problems..... an aspect few gamers apreciate.
Notice, I apreciate logistic management but it's not a good reason to miss some fine grandtactical and manouvering issue.

March to sound of the Guns? Over 100+ miles? Before the invention of the telegraph?

Not likely. but hilarious...
...and within a region, it occurs when multiple stacks engage in support of each other. This activity can be adjusted by the Menu Option "Delayed Commitment"

"Amateurs study Strategy and Tactics, Professionals study Logistics."

C&C? Why add complexity that is not needed?

Nothing was missed or overlooked. These were concious design decisions.

..of course, you could always start a company, design and sell your ideas, and feel the pain when someone dislikes your choices....

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Post #: 54

RE: Winter operations - 2/7/2009 2:49:49 PM

Blueprint

Posts: 72
Joined: 8/26/2003
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quote:

I'm not interested to post mod download links to a board where I have no access for public debate and where I'm publicly detested!
Guess it should be not hard to understand!

It's fascinating how good you are to shoot yourself, The BlackLegion...opps sorry JastaV

< Message edited by Blueprint -- 2/7/2009 4:06:20 PM >

(in reply to JastaV)

Post #: 55

RE: Winter operations - 2/7/2009 4:42:07 PM

JastaV

Posts: 97
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline

"Amateurs study Strategy and Tactics, Professionals study Logistics."

A good point!
But there are few professionals and may amateurs out here!
Give amateurs that they like: WIA will sell more!
Non a critic, a suggestion!

This activity can be adjusted by the Menu Option "Delayed Commitment"!
Question: what your experienced beta-developer suggestion to get max. realism from "Delayed Commitment" setting?
Can I change it with no risk during an alredy started campaign?
Thanks in advance for replying.

C&C? Why add complexity that is not needed?
Making it optional, If possible, will take you to grab more customers: the one looking for complexity and the one searching for an easy game! Isn't it?

(in reply to dunnsa)

Post #: 56

RE: Winter operations - 2/7/2009 4:45:34 PM

JastaV

Posts: 97
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blueprint

quote:

I'm not interested to post mod download links to a board where I have no access for public debate and where I'm publicly detested!
Guess it should be not hard to understand!

It's fascinating how good you are to shoot yourself, The BlackLegion...opps sorry JastaV

Just yesterday I was TheBlackViper!
Now I'm The BlackLegion!

I'm JastaV, (sometimes jastaV or jastav).

(in reply to Blueprint)

Post #: 57

RE: Winter operations - 2/7/2009 5:17:28 PM

dunnsa

Posts: 75
Joined: 7/28/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JastaV

"Amateurs study Strategy and Tactics, Professionals study Logistics."

A good point!
But there are few professionals and may amateurs out here!
Give amateurs that they like: WIA will sell more!
Non a critic, a suggestion!

This activity can be adjusted by the Menu Option "Delayed Commitment"!
Question: what your experienced beta-developer suggestion to get max. realism from "Delayed Commitment" setting?
Can I change it with no risk during an alredy started campaign?
Thanks in advance for replying.

C&C? Why add complexity that is not needed?
Making it optional, If possible, will take you to grab more customers: the one looking for complexity and the one searching for an easy game! Isn't it?

Why not try and see?
Exploring the game is the fun part. I prefer to not engage in 'what setting' debates...

Define 'no risk'.
Will the results change? Yes.
Will the game crash? No.
Will you be able to tell the difference? Try it and see....

So, when is the IPO for your company so you can apply your design and marketing expertise ?

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Post #: 58

RE: Winter operations - 2/7/2009 6:05:50 PM

Blueprint

Posts: 72
Joined: 8/26/2003
Status: offline

quote:

Just yesterday I was TheBlackViper!
Now I'm The BlackLegion!

I'm JastaV, (sometimes jastaV or jastav).

and both TheBlackLegion and JastaV on Gamespot.

< Message edited by Blueprint -- 2/7/2009 6:06:18 PM >

(in reply to JastaV)

Post #: 59

RE: Winter operations - 2/7/2009 8:21:19 PM

JastaV

Posts: 97
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lodilefty

Define 'no risk'.
Will the results change? Yes.
Will the game crash? No.
Will you be able to tell the difference? Try it and see....

So, when is the IPO for your company so you can apply your design and marketing expertise ?

Define 'no risk': to be sure I'll not waste currently played scenario, having to start it again!
It seems like you have already clarified the point!

Notice, last time I experienced with "Delayed Commitment" setting it was over NCP: and nothing was changing!
I know WiA is not NCP!

What IPO is?
I'm not familiar with Acronimous.......

(in reply to dunnsa)

Post #: 60