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RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound

 
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RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 6/10/2007 9:17:48 PM   
mlees


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Maybe its a bit too early to ask, but will there be some sort of filter that a player can use for the music?

For example, the player assigned to the USSR wishes to play only the music from that nation/folder.

(in reply to Mziln)
Post #: 121
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 6/10/2007 9:48:19 PM   
Jimm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mziln

But from the articles it would be a good idea not to include music by Wagner.



If one was going to be open to offense about this kind of thing then one might think that the whole idea of a "game" about WW2 would seem to be more provocative than a composer's works which were written 50 years previous to the war in question.


(in reply to Mziln)
Post #: 122
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 6/10/2007 10:04:50 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees

Maybe its a bit too early to ask, but will there be some sort of filter that a player can use for the music?

For example, the player assigned to the USSR wishes to play only the music from that nation/folder.

Nothing has been coded yet, so now is a good time to make suggestions like this.

As always, I like to take a single example and extrapolate to a larger view. How about listing the music that is being used for each major power and giving the player the option of selecting/deselecting each piece of music? Turning all of them off for individual major powers (or all the music off) and the ability to add your own music to the list seems readily doable (though only one format for music would be supported).

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Post #: 123
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 6/11/2007 2:22:53 AM   
Toed

 

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Selecting/deselecting each piece of music seems like a nice idea. For myself I'll probably play with the music off. IMHO any game that takes hours and hours to play needs to have very 'passive' or 'nonintrusive' music or the players will get tired of listening to the same thing over and over. But that is no big problem as long as one can turn the music off.

However the same system might be a good idea for other sounds in the game. Like soundeffects for movement, combat and the like. Perhaps even with 3 levels - 1. On (ex. long sound 1+ sec) 2. On Short (ex. short sound .1 to .9 second or so - perhaps a different sound that sounds better beeing played for this amount of time) 3. Off.  This will help with the problem that sometimes occurs in strategy games - Movement sounds that sound like a troop marching on a road perhaps 2 seconds long. Which is good the first 100 times you move a unit but after that ....
I realise that some people want that sound but that's why as much user costomization as possible in this area is good.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 124
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 6/11/2007 8:32:37 PM   
bredsjomagnus

 

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Yes it´s nice when you can turn sound effects of and...

...another importent thing IMHO is that the sound effects different volumes is nicely tuned togheter. It´s quite annoying when you almost can´t hear some sound effects and in the same volume setting some sound effects are too loud.

(in reply to Toed)
Post #: 125
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 6/11/2007 8:47:38 PM   
Norden_slith


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I saw a lot of the "Deutsche Wochenschau" or was it "UFA Tonwoche"? It was weekly news - 40 years earlier "vor vierzig Jahren" (It was around 1980, yes), it allways came togehther with the allied news weeklies. The music i remember most was "Franz List - Les Prelúdes" - the crescendo of that one. While - once again, german Panzers raced around Russia and blew up stuff. Its bombastic and he was one of Hitlers favorites.

Norden

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Post #: 126
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 6/19/2007 9:40:28 PM   
composer99


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I would guess that on average the sound effects should be between 1/2 and 1 second in length. They should also not be too noticeable, because you want users to be able to enjoy the sound effect but not find it annoying the thousandth time they hear it.

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Post #: 127
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 6/19/2007 11:46:07 PM   
Peter Stauffenberg


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I found several nice German MP3 files with war time music that could be used.

When Rommel arrives in Africa the DAK music theme could be played.
It's called "Unser Rommel" (our Rommel)

When the Germans attack the Soviet Union the music theme
"Vorwärts nach Osten Du stürmend Heer" (Forwards to the east you storming
army).

The following war theme could be used for a lot of occasions. It's called
"Wenn die Soldaten durch die Stadt marschieren" (when the soldiers march
through the city).

"Panzerlied" (tanks theme) could be played when the Germans make an important
blitz attack etc.

"Bomben auf Engeland" (Bombs for England) could be played when the Luftwaffe
makes its first strategic bombardment of London.

"Im Westen" (in the west) could be played for the German soldiers going westwards.

The opportunities are big. I just found these MP3 songs searching the Internet. I'm sure
it's only a fraction of good music tunes that could be used.

Russian war melodies were also very easy to find. Many of them are very melodic and
great to listen to. For example 3 tankista (3 tank drivers) or Svyashchennaya voina
(the sacret war).

Look here to MP3 files of some Soviet war songs:
http://www.stalingrad-info.com/songs.htm

< Message edited by Borger Borgersen -- 6/20/2007 12:33:49 AM >

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Post #: 128
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 6/21/2007 7:29:14 AM   
amwild

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99
I would guess that on average the sound effects should be between 1/2 and 1 second in length. They should also not be too noticeable, because you want users to be able to enjoy the sound effect but not find it annoying the thousandth time they hear it.


Perhaps we could have the option to select our own sound effects - or none at all. There could be a default set that comes with the game, and we could substitute our own .wav files, or just turn them off.

There is also the possibility to include the sound events in the registry so that they appear in the Windows Sounds and Audio Devices control panel, Sounds tab, Program Events box, and are played when these events occur. All that is necessary for this is to add a few registry entries and make an API call when the event occurs.

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 129
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 6/21/2007 8:31:31 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: amwild

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99
I would guess that on average the sound effects should be between 1/2 and 1 second in length. They should also not be too noticeable, because you want users to be able to enjoy the sound effect but not find it annoying the thousandth time they hear it.


Perhaps we could have the option to select our own sound effects - or none at all. There could be a default set that comes with the game, and we could substitute our own .wav files, or just turn them off.

There is also the possibility to include the sound events in the registry so that they appear in the Windows Sounds and Audio Devices control panel, Sounds tab, Program Events box, and are played when these events occur. All that is necessary for this is to add a few registry entries and make an API call when the event occurs.

David Heath has specified the music/sound format (I have notes on that in the pile of papers to my left) and that will be the only format supported. I expect to handle the sound similarly to how I am doing the bitmaps. Players will be able to change most of them by simply substitiuing their own files with the same name. Yes, a more sophistocated system could easily be developed, but, really, this is real low priority for almost al players.

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Post #: 130
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 6/21/2007 8:55:50 PM   
composer99


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Also thinking about musical cues:

On the one hand, a lot of melodic, awesome period music exists that could easily be adapted to our purposes.

However, thinking back to owning Hearts of Iron, much as I like Tchaikovsky, Wagner, and Bach, I really got annoyed listening to the tracks of their music provided with that game after about a dozen times. Great music, but not really amenable to listening to over and over and over again.

This is in contrast with games like Ogre Battle or the Final Fantasy RPGs, where the music, in addition to being of reasonably high quality, is expressly designed for its repeatable nature. A lot of other more recent games include fairly ambient musical cues that are also purposefully crafted with a view to their ease of listening to dozens or hundreds of times, but that also capture a number of different emotional or game-related states. Kind of like Satie's "furniture music" in the '20s.

If MWiF includes its own music, I might suggest that a number of fairly low-key tracks be created that can stand up to actual scrutiny but can fade into the background enough that they do not annoy after many repeats. Generally they can stand to be from one to three minutes' length, and should be able to fade smoothly from one to another. Incorporating themes and motifs from period music is probably a good idea. While I suppose there could easily be musical cues that relate to specific powers, I would caution against using musical cues as replacements for action-related sound effects, as they will usually be too long or stand out too much.

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Post #: 131
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 6/21/2007 10:30:40 PM   
Jimm


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From: York, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

Also thinking about musical cues:

On the one hand, a lot of melodic, awesome period music exists that could easily be adapted to our purposes.

However, thinking back to owning Hearts of Iron, much as I like Tchaikovsky, Wagner, and Bach, I really got annoyed listening to the tracks of their music provided with that game after about a dozen times. Great music, but not really amenable to listening to over and over and over again.

This is in contrast with games like Ogre Battle or the Final Fantasy RPGs, where the music, in addition to being of reasonably high quality, is expressly designed for its repeatable nature. A lot of other more recent games include fairly ambient musical cues that are also purposefully crafted with a view to their ease of listening to dozens or hundreds of times, but that also capture a number of different emotional or game-related states. Kind of like Satie's "furniture music" in the '20s.

If MWiF includes its own music, I might suggest that a number of fairly low-key tracks be created that can stand up to actual scrutiny but can fade into the background enough that they do not annoy after many repeats. Generally they can stand to be from one to three minutes' length, and should be able to fade smoothly from one to another. Incorporating themes and motifs from period music is probably a good idea. While I suppose there could easily be musical cues that relate to specific powers, I would caution against using musical cues as replacements for action-related sound effects, as they will usually be too long or stand out too much.


Totally agree. Whereas when we play on table I have an atmosphere "soundtrack" containing examples of much of what is described in this and previous mails, it doesnt bear repeating too often as it tends to drive people round the bend after a while....

In the end people can put on what they like in the background to play MWIF so I would not think that a full set of tracks is a necessity but something that pulls out particular themes would be as part of an atmospheric soundtrack might be very cool.

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 132
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 7/9/2007 5:50:10 AM   
po8crg

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
As I understand it, copyrights are valid for 75 years - but that may only apply to sheet music.


Copyrights on music are a bit complicated.

There are normally three copyrights on a CD that you buy:

Author's copyright. This is held by the composer and/or lyricist. It runs for life + 70 years

Sound recording copyright. This is held by the person or people who made the sound recording, ie the singer and the people who played the instruments. It is protected internationally as at least 50 years from the recording, but some countries have extended that to 70 or throughout the artist's life.

Publisher's copyright. This is held by the publisher in the particular pressing and publication. This also lasts for 50 years. Unless there was significant creative work in the publication (eg a remastering), this may not be protected, though that won't necessarily stop them suing.

If you could have taken a 50-year-old vinyl record and digitised that into your OGG file, and it's difficult to tell whether you did, or whether you bought a new CD last week and ripped that, then the publisher will probably not be in a position to sue, though the author (or, more likely, their estate) might.

Of course, if the music is in copyright, you can pay licensing fees. Given you're using unencrypted digital formats, you'd better hope the music is on EMI or Universal, as the other major labels probably won't let you do that.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 133
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 7/10/2007 12:05:09 AM   
composer99


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Ah, copyright, copyright, copyright.

I wanted to write a bit more about music, but I'm running out of time to do it here.

If I were to summarize the options for sound effects in MWiF, I would do it thusly:

Sound Effects

As I see it, there are three major possibilities: no sound effects; minimal sound effects; and additional sound effects (additional to the minimally "required" ones).

No Sound Effects
Obviously, it would be quite possible to not have any sound effects in MWiF. Easy to code (duh!), easy to justify (it's not really a "sound FX" kind of game, when you think about it).

If MWiF does have sound effects, I believe there are two different sets of FX; a minimally-required set, and an additional "luxury" set.

Minimally-Required Sound Effects
The following sound effects are the ones that, at minimum, would be needed in the game if any sound effects are to be included:

Multiplayer-Related FX: These are sound effects that relate to multi-player game modes, when players are notifying one another of decisions to be made, turns to be taken, and so on, or when they are sending messages to one another, and so on.

Key Events: Really important events should probably have their own warnings & sound effects; these include: major power declares war on another major power; major power is conquered, surrenders, or is Vichied; other events that might also pass muster include major powers declaring war on or aligning minors; US entry events and US entry options being passed; Soviet border rectification & minor powers getting conquered.

If no other sound effects are included in MWiF, then these sound effects can be restricted to fairly straightforward "system"-like effects. If other sound effects (see below) are included, then they could take on other, more evocative forms. For example, messages could be announced with telegraph-like sounds (i.e. Morse code being punched/clicked out); some short (.5 to 1 second) and subtle fanfares could be used for major power events (DoW, conquest, &c), perhaps using recognizeable motives from period national anthems; stuff like that.

Extra Sound Effects
The following sound effects, while nice to have, can probably be considered a luxury to be thrown in if time and budget permits. All these sound effects should be no longer than 1 second; .25 to .75 seconds is best.

Air Missions/Air Battles: Air missions, when selected, could have FX (.5 to 1 second long) with appropriate air unit noises (i.e. different engine noises for different types of aircraft/mission; engine & shooting or bombing noises for combats or bombing; similar kind of thing for naval air combats).

Naval Movement/Battles: A similar kind of effect could be applied; with the sounds of ships sailing through the ocean for naval movement; marching feet or something for embarking/debarking units; naval guns firing or explosions for surface or submarine naval combats; stuff like that.

Rail Movement: The kind of sound effect used for rail movement speaks for itself, methinks.

Land Movement/Combat: "Leg" units could have marching feet when they make land moves; Cavalry could have hoofbeats; "Motorized" units could have either wheeled or tracked vehicle noises (depending on if they are motorized or tank/mech forces). For combat, assault combats could have machine gun noises; artillery bombardment could have explosions from artillery fire (maybe Katyusha rocket screams?); blitz combat could have tanks moving & shooting. These would take place as movement & combat are resolved.

Captured Cities/Objectives: When major ports, cities, or objectives are captured, there could be little fanfares announcing that, even if there is no pop-up or other form of attention-getting message.

Victory!: When the game ends, whatever side wins can have a short fanfare celebrating their triumph; the other side gets a short dirge. Ties can have some inconclusive theme. These would be 1-2 seconds in length.

I think that about sums it up, but any omissions or other ideas should be noted; and of course there has been a lot of discussion on sound effects before in this topic.

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Post #: 134
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 7/10/2007 12:54:30 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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Thanks Christopher.

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Post #: 135
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 2/6/2009 8:43:45 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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Ok, it has been 18 months since this topic was discussed. If you want a short review of the previous discussion, I recommend the following posts:
9, 15, 21, 52, 70, 71, 73, 89, 97, 100, 118, 119, 127, 128, 130, 134. That will take a bit of time to read through, but it should bring you up to speed on this entire thread.

I am now at the point that I want to make final decisions on:

1 - Historical video
2 - Sound effects
3 - Music

I have already decided that:
A - For historical text, there will only be the unit descriptions (see another thread for the details on that, and over 100 examples). More elaborate designs would be nice to provide, but I do not have the time to write the supporting code.

B - For music, there will be at least one song per major power that is nationalistic in nature, with perhaps a second that is militarisitc. Yes, there are a lot more possibilities but I am looking at what will be included as part of the first release. More bells and whistles can be added later. We are looking at about 1-2 minutes of play time for each piece.

C - For historical video, there will be between 10 and 30 clips. I expect some of these to appear only once, under special circumstances (e.g., the attack on Peral Harbor) and others to occur perhaps more than once, but still very rarely (e.g., the capture/liberation of Paris).

D - For sounds, I expect there to be between 20 and 40 very short sound bites (bytes?), 1-2 seconds long. These would occur frequently, though I am not sure exactly how much flexibility I should provide for the player to control them.

A only appears when the player requests it. B, C, and D would all be optional (could be turned off). Once we decide on a definitive list for sounds, I'll try to figure out perhaps some intermediate control on sounds, other than On/Off.

===
So, what I want at this point is a final list of historical video and sounds. For each item I need to know: when, what, and for how long. When defines the conditions that cause the video/sound to occur.

I would like to get this wrapped up in the next two weeks. Then I can provide Matrix with recommendations for what I would like to have included and they can go about gathering the files for me to include in the game.


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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 136
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 2/6/2009 9:12:28 PM   
peskpesk


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What to pick from this excellent list?

Battles

1939
• Invasion of Poland
Battle of Bzura
Battle of Mława
Battle of Tomaszów Lubelski
Battle of Kock
Battle of Warsaw
Battle of Modlin Poland invaded and partitioned by Nazi Germany and the Communist Soviet Union.

• Saar Offensive French attack on Saarland.
• Winter War
Battle of Tolvajärvi
Battle of Suomussalmi Finland invaded by the Soviet Union and, initially, resists successfully.

• First Battle of Changsha First Japanese attempt to take Changsha in China during the Second Sino-Japanese War.
• Battle of the River Plate The Admiral Graf Spee chased into Montevideo harbour and later scuttled.

1940
• Battle of the Atlantic Name given to the conflicts in the Atlantic Ocean between 1940 and 1945.
• Winter War
Battle of Kollaa
Battle of Honkaniemi

The only tank battle during the Winter War.
• Battle of Drøbak Sound Took place on the first day of the German invasion of Norway.
• Battle of Narvik Minor Allied victory in Norway.
• Battle of Namsos Failed Allied attempt to halt the Germans in Norway.
• Battle of the Netherlands Germany defeats the Dutch in Europe during the opening stages of the first operation of the Battle of France, "Case Yellow" (Fall Gelb).
• Battle of Belgium Germany defeats Belgium during the continuation of Fall Gelb.
• Battle of France Germany defeats France and the British Expeditionary Force in the culmination of Fall Gelb. The remainder of France is defeated in the second operation of the Battle of France, "Case Red" (Fall Rot).
• Battle of Dunkirk Operation Dynamo, the successful evacuation of the British Expeditionary Force.
• Attack on Mers-el-Kébir Operation "Catapult", the Royal Navy destroys most of the French Navy to avoid ships falling in German hands.
• Battle of Britain The German Air Force (Luftwaffe) fails to defeat the British Royal Air Force as the precondition for the invasion of Britain.
• British Somaliland Italian conquest of British Somaliland
• First Battle of French Indochina The forces of Imperial Japan successfully invade French Indochina but leave the Vichy French forces in control.
• Battle of Dakar An unsuccessful attempt by the Allies to capture the strategic port of Dakar from Vichy French control.
• Greco-Italian War
Battle of Pindus Italian forces invade Greece from Albania and are repelled. Greek counter-attack drives Italians back into Albania.

• Battle of Gabon Free French forces under General Charles De Gaulle take Libreville, Gabon, from Vichy French forces.
• Battle of Taranto British carrier-based planes destroy the Italian fleet in Taranto Harbor.
• Hundred Regiments Offensive Major offensive by the Chinese Red Army against the Imperial Japanese Army.


1941
• Battle of Koh Chang Vichy French naval victory against naval forces of Thailand during French-Thai War.
• Battle of the Litani River Australian forces cross the Litani River to begin the Syria-Lebanon Campaign against Vichy French forces.
• Battle of Damascus Commonwealth and Allied forces take Damascus from the Vichy French.
• Battle of Beirut Commonwealth and Allied forces take Beirut and the Vichy French surrender all forces in Syria and Lebanon.
• Battle of Keren Commonwealth and Allied forces defeat Italian forces at Keren in the decisive battle of the East African Campaign.
• Battle of Cape Matapan British fleet defeats Italian fleet.
• Battle of Denmark Strait The German battleship Bismarck sinks HMS Hood.
• Invasion of Yugoslavia Germany and Axis allies invade Yugoslavia via Germany, Italy, Hungary, Bulgaria, and Albania.
• Battle of Greece Germany and Axis allies invade Greece via Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, and Albania.
• Battle of Crete German paratroopers capture Crete, but suffer many casualties.
• Operation Barbarossa
Battle of Smolensk
Battle of Kiev
Battle of Moscow German invasion of the Soviet Union.
The German advance is halted, albeit temporarily.

The German Army Group Centre is driven back from Moscow.
• Battle of Gondar The final defeat of organized Italian forces in Italian East Africa by Commonwealth and Allied forces.
• Attack on Pearl Harbor Surprise Japanese attack destroys almost all the US Pacific Fleet.
• Second Battle of Changsha Japan's second unsuccessful attempt to take Changsha in China.
• Battle of Thailand Japan successfully invades and occupies Thailand.
• Battle of Hong Kong Japan captures the British colony of Hong Kong.
• Battle of Guam (1941) Japan successfully capture the American territory of Guam.
• Battle of Wake Island Japan captures the atoll of Wake Island.
• Battle of Malaya Japan successfully invades and occupies Malaya.
• Battle of Singapore Japan takes Singapore.


1942
• Battle of Makassar Strait Japanese aircraft raid an American and Dutch convoy.
• Battle of Dražgoše First direct engagement between Slovenian partisans and German occupying forces.
• Battle of the Java Sea Japanese forces wipe out an Allied naval squadron.
• Battle of Badung Strait Heavily outnumbered Japanese forces defeat an Allied night-time naval attack.
• Battle of Java Japanese forces invade the island of Java
• Indian Ocean raid Allied naval forces and shipping incur heavy losses during Japan's Fast Carrier Strike Force sortie.
• Battle of Christmas Island The Japanese occupy Christmas Island without any resistance.
• Battle of Corregidor Philippines lost to Japan.
• Japanese capture of Burma Burma lost to Japan.
• Battle of Nanos Eight hundred Italian soldiers lay siege to fifty Slovene partisans.
• Battle of the Coral Sea First aircraft-carrier vs. aircraft-carrier battle. Japan wins tactically, but loses strategically.
• Battle of Bir Hakeim The First Free French Brigade buys Allied forces enough time to prevent a German breakthrough to the Suez Canal.
• Battle of Midway Key defeat of Japanese naval forces in the Pacific; the Japanese lose four aircraft-carriers.
• Convoy PQ-17 A convoy of twenty-seven ships leaves Iceland on June 17, bound for Murmansk. Ten arrive on July 5.
•Battle of the Aleutian Islands Japanese invade and occupy two islands of Alaska's Aleutian archipelago as part of a feint designed to cover the Imperial Fleet's intended trap at Midway. Foreign troops are not expelled from US soil until the following
•Attack on Sydney Harbour Japanese midget submarines attack Sydney harbour.
•First Battle of El Alamein British Eighth Army stops Rommel's Axis forces invading Egypt.
•Second Battle of El Alamein Montgomery's Eighth Army forces Rommel out of Egypt.
•Battle of Sevastopol Captured by Germans after eight month siege.
•Battle of Changsha Chinese claim victory over Japanese.
•Kokoda Track Campaign Australians slow down Japanese offensive against Port Moresby, cause Japanese overextension and attrition losses; drive them back.
•Battle of Guadalcanal Beginning of Allied action in Solomon Islands.
•Battle of Savo Island Japanese sink four US cruisers.
•Battle of Dieppe "Operation Jubilee" was an Allied amphibious raid on the German occupied port of Dieppe in France. A tactical disaster for the Allies. However lessons learned applied to later amphibious operations including D-Day.
•Battle of Stalingrad City besieged by Paulus' German Sixth Army; from November 23 the Sixth Army is surrounded and destroyed by Soviets; bloodiest battle in history, 1.8 millions dead approx.
•Battle of the Eastern Solomons Japanese aircraft carrier Ryūjō sunk.
•Battle of Milne Bay First time Japanese landing force had been driven back into sea.
•Battle of Cape Esperance near Guadalcanal
•Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands near Guadalcanal, USS Hornet (CV-8) sunk.
•Operation Torch Allied landings in North Africa and successful Putsch of French Resistance in Algiers to prevent Vichyist forces opposition.
•Naval Battle of Guadalcanal US defeats Japan, a turning point.
•Battle of Tassafaronga off Guadalcanal
•Second Battle of Kharkov Failed Soviet attempt to retake Kharkov.
•Battle of Changsha (1942) Second Sino-Japanese War
•Battle of Madagascar Allies capture Madagascar from Vichy France.


1943
• Battle of Osankarica About 2000 Germans massacred all 69 men and women of the Pohorje battalion. Germans lost 19 men and had 31 wounded.
• Battle of Rennell Island Japanese bombers sink a cruiser.
• Battle of Guadalcanal Allies take the island.
• Third Battle of Kharkov Germans retake Kharkov.
• Battle of the Kasserine Pass Battle between US and German armored forces in Tunisia.
• Battle of Neretva German Army (Wehrmacht Heer) offensive in southern Bosnia. Offensive launched to encircle and destroy the Yugoslavian Communist Partisan forces found there. Supporting the German forces in this effort were Italian, Croatian, Ustaše, and Yugoslavian Royalist Chetnik units. The partisans were badly mauled but managed to escape encirclement.
• Battle of the Komandorski Islands Naval engagement between US and Japan in the Bering Sea.
• Battle of Bismarck Sea US sinks Japanese transports.
• Warsaw Ghetto Uprising 5,000 Jews and 2,000 Germans die, Jews confined.
• Battle of Sutjeska Another attempt by German forces in Yugoslavia, this time supported by Italian, Bulgarian, Croatian, and Cossack units, to encircle and destroy the Yugoslavian Communist Partisan forces in southern Bosnia. Again, the partisans were mauled but escaped.
• Battle of Castle Turjak Slovene partisans took the castle guarded by the Slovene village sentries.
• Battle of Kursk Germans attack Kursk salient at Orel and Belgorod, Russians drive them back. Arguably the largest tank battle ever fought.
• Allied invasion of Sicily Allies take Sicily from the Italians and German armies.
• Allied invasion of Italy Landings at Calabria, Taranto and Salerno.
• Dodecanese Campaign
Battle of Kos
Battle of Leros Allied and German scramble to occupy the Dodecanese Islands.
German amphibious and airborne operation to capture Kos.
German amphibious and airborne peration to capture Kos.
• Battle of Smolensk The Soviets attack 850,000 German troops near Smolensk fortified region, drive them back inflicting severe losses.
• Battle of Kiev (1943) Kiev retaken by Soviets.
• Raid on Schweinfurt milestone air battle between the Luftwaffe and the USAAF known as "Black Thursday."
• Schweinfurt-Regensburg mission another major daylight air battle, first shuttle mission.
• Battle of Tarawa First major American amphibious landing in the Pacific.
• Battle of Makin Americans capture the atoll of Makin Atoll.
• Battle of the Bernhardt Line U.S. 5th Army sustains 16,000 casualties fighting through the Mignano Gap to reach the Cassino defenses.


1944
• Battle of Cisterna Part of Operation Shingle, the 1st, 3rd, and 4th US Army Ranger battalions attempted to capture the town of Cisterna.
• Battle of Monte Cassino Four battles in Italy Jan - May. Allies finally breakthrough towards Rome.
• Battle of Kwajalein American forces assault the islands of Kwajalein and Roi-Namur.
• Battle of the Admin Box Japanese attempt a local counter-attack against an Allied offensive.
• Battle of Eniwetok Battle between American and Japanese on Eniwetok Atoll.
• Battle of Imphal and Battle of Kohima Attempted Japanese invasion of India fails with heavy losses.
• Operation Rösselsprung German attempt to capture Tito using airborne troops.
• Battle of Normandy Allies invade northern France (Operation Overlord), hard fighting from Cherbourg to Caen, Germans surrounded and destroyed at Falaise.
• Battle of Saipan The battle was fought on the island of Saipan in the Mariana Islands and resulted disastrous for Japanese forces since most died.
• Battle of Guam American forces capture back Guam.
• Battle of Tinian American forces capture Tinian.
• Operation Bagration Soviet offensive destroys German Army Group Center on the Eastern Front.
• Battle of Philippine Sea Major carrier battle; US lose 123 planes and destroy 315 Japanese planes.
• Battle of Fontenay
• Battle of Tali-Ihantala Finnish stop Soviet offensive.
• Warsaw Uprising 20.000 armed Poles against 55.000 Wehrmacht and SS. 90% of city destroyed, more than 250.000 casualties.
• Operation Dragoon Allied invasion of Southern France.
• Battle of Debrecen Soviets gain ground in Hungary but German and Hungarian forces manage to withdraw relatively intact after both sides suffer similar losses.
• Gothic Line offensive British 8th Army and U.S. 5th Army attempt unsuccessfully to break into the north Italian plains.
• Battle of Arnhem The major battle of Operation Market Garden; Allies reach but fail to cross the Rhine; British First Airborne Division destroyed.
• Battle of Peleliu A fight to capture an airstrip on a speck of coral in the western Pacific.
• Battle of Aachen Aachen was the first major German city to face invasion during WW II.
• Battle of the Scheldt Decisive Canadian victory, solved the logistical problems of the Allies, and opened the port of Antwerp for supplies directly to the front.
• Battle of Crucifix Hill The 18th Infantry, U.S. 1st Infantry Division take Crucifix Hill, a crucial position to help surround Aachen. Cpt. Bobbie E. Brown wins a Medal of Honor for his heroics.
• Battle of Angaur American forces capture an island in Palau.
• Battle of Hurtgen Forest Stubborn German defense, appalling losses to US army.
• Battle of Leyte American and Filipino guerrillas forces capture Leyte.
• Battle of Leyte Gulf The largest air-sea battle in history.
• Operation Queen was a joint British-American operation during World War II at the Western Front between Aachen and the Rur river.
• Battle of the Bulge German counterattack in Ardennes; General McAuliffe says "NUTS" at Bastogne.
• Battle of Budapest Soviet encirclement, siege, and capture of the Hungarian capital, Budapest.


1945
• Operation Elephant Allied offensive against a German bridgehead at Kapelsche Veer in the Netherlands.
• Raid at Cabanatuan US Army Rangers rescue Bataan and Corregidor POWs from Japanese prison camp.
• Battle for the Recapture of Bataan U.S. and Philippine Forces retake the historic Bataan Peninsula.
• Battle for the Liberation of Manila City totally devastated after month-long battle between the American, Filipino and Japanese forces. 100,000 civilians killed.
• Battle of Luzon The battle where it makes his only Mexico entrance in World War II, helping to the U.S and the Philippines to win to the Japan empire, with a lost one of 37.870 allies and 217,000 Japanese, allied victory
• Battle for the Recapture of Corregidor Spectacular combined U.S. and Philippine assault retakes island bastion from Japanese forces.
• Raid at Los Baños U.S. Airborne Task Force rescues more than 2,000 Allied POWs and civilian internees held by Japanese.
• Battle of Mindanao U.S. Eighth Army together with the Philippine Commonwealth troops completes the recapture of Southern Philippines.
• Operation Varsity 134 Allied gliders land troops in Weisel.
• Battle of the Visayas U.S. Eighth Army together with the Philippine Commonwealth troops retakes central Philippine islands.
• Battle of Meiktila and Mandalay Japanese defeated in decisive battle in Central Burma
• Battle of Iwo Jima After a month, U.S. Forces take main offshore Japanese island.
• Battle of West Henan and North Hubei Indecisive battle between China and Japan. Japan controls airbases after battle.
• Battle of Halbe Part of Battle of Berlin, Germans unable to break out.
• Battle of Berlin Soviet forces encircle and capture German capital; Hitler commits suicide.
• Battle of Triest British army and Yugoslav capture the city.
• Battle of Tarakan Allied attack as part of the Borneo campaign.
• Battle of Poljana Last battle of World War II in Europe.
• Battle of West Hunan Chinese victory in final battle to expel Japan.
• Battle of Okinawa US takes Japanese Island in the Ryūkyūs; many casualties to both sides.
• Battle of North Borneo Australian victory during final stages of World War II in the Pacific.
• Battle of Balikpapan Allied victory over Japan.
• Battle of Manchuria Soviet forces liberate Manchuria.


_____________________________

"'Malta - The Thorn in Rommel's Side"

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 137
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 2/7/2009 12:32:26 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

B - For music, there will be at least one song per major power that is nationalistic in nature, with perhaps a second that is militarisitc. Yes, there are a lot more possibilities but I am looking at what will be included as part of the first release. More bells and whistles can be added later. We are looking at about 1-2 minutes of play time for each piece.

C - For historical video, there will be between 10 and 30 clips. I expect some of these to appear only once, under special circumstances (e.g., the attack on Peral Harbor) and others to occur perhaps more than once, but still very rarely (e.g., the capture/liberation of Paris).

Warspite1

My views for what they are worth.

For the Commonwealth I would go for:

Militaristic - Eternal Father, Strong To Save; the Royal Navy Hymn (although the US Navy claim it too) - a powerful yet moving piece (remember the film Crimson Tide?) and if any one service is preferred over another, I think the RN - our senior service - deserves that honour.

Nationalistic - I vow to thee my country. I think this has the edge over more obvious choices like Jeruselem and Land of Hope and Glory as the later two would probably get irritating after too much play!

For the American Militaristic I think you could do worse than Samuel Barbers Adagio for Strings, used in the film Platoon.

For the Japanese militaristic, how about David Sylvian and Ryuichi Sakamoto`s Forbidden Colours without the words?

Video: The sinking and blowing up of the battleship Barham in December 1941 is an oft used clip, but for good reason. Its about 16 seconds long.



(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 138
RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound - 2/7/2009 12:55:00 AM   
Sewerlobster


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/7/2007
From: Reading, Pa. USA
Status: offline
quote:


For the American Militaristic I think you could do worse than Samuel Barbers Adagio for Strings, used in the film Platoon.


That piece seems more of a lament than a militaristic one. "Charging Fort Wagner" or "Washington's Retreat" would be better but the first may be copyrighted and the other is already used in Civilization IV. "The Marine Corps Hymn" is a little more period apropos but Pacific theatercentric. How about "Over There!" while more associated with WWI it was sung at the start of WWII.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 139
Ideas for video triggers - 2/7/2009 3:21:34 AM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
can't really help with the music but how about the following triggers for video:

Declaration of war shows video of your national leader making a speech (any speech).
Taking enemy capital shows your troops marching
Taking enemy factory shows factory demolition sequence
Achieving a Factory destruction by strat bombing shows your national bombers (Heinkel for Germany, Lancaster for CW etc) unloading over target
BB or CV emerging from second stage production shows appropriate unit steaming into the sunset.
Sinking an enemy BB shows HMS Barham clip (damage or bottoming doesn't trigger clip)
Sinking an enemy CV shows USS Franklin clip (ditto)
Dropping of A-Bomb shows mushroom cloud
...
(still thinking)


_____________________________

/Greyshaft

(in reply to Sewerlobster)
Post #: 140
RE: Ideas for video triggers - 2/7/2009 3:40:59 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

can't really help with the music but how about the following triggers for video:

Declaration of war shows video of your national leader making a speech (any speech).
Taking enemy capital shows your troops marching
Taking enemy factory shows factory demolition sequence
Achieving a Factory destruction by strat bombing shows your national bombers (Heinkel for Germany, Lancaster for CW etc) unloading over target
BB or CV emerging from second stage production shows appropriate unit steaming into the sunset.
Sinking an enemy BB shows HMS Barham clip (damage or bottoming doesn't trigger clip)
Sinking an enemy CV shows USS Franklin clip (ditto)
Dropping of A-Bomb shows mushroom cloud
...
(still thinking)


Very helpful.

Maybe a ship going down the slip might be appropriate for a naval unit completing its 2nd production cycle.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Greyshaft)
Post #: 141
RE: Ideas for video triggers - 2/7/2009 4:42:34 AM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Maybe a ship going down the slip might be appropriate for a naval unit completing its 2nd production cycle.

2nd production cycle ? I always thought going down slipway = end of first production cycle followed by fitting out for a year which was second production cycle. But I'm only a software guy and that sounds like a project management constraint for the hardware team

_____________________________

/Greyshaft

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 142
RE: Ideas for video triggers - 2/7/2009 8:14:48 AM   
Stabilo

 

Posts: 140
Joined: 2/3/2008
Status: offline
Please keep in mind that germans can be amerced for even owning a game with nazi-symbols or songs.

Forbidden songs here in Germany are:

• "Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest geschlossen! SA marschiert..." (sog.
HORST-WESSEL-LIED)
• Melodie d. Horst-Wessel-Liedes, u. U. auch markante Teile davon
• "Brüder in Zechen und Gruben, Brüder ihr hinter dem Pflug...Einst kommt
der Tag der Rache, einmal da werden wir frei! Schaffendes Deutschland
erwache, brich deine Ketten entzwei!"
• "Durch Groß-Berlin marschieren wir... SA marschiert, die Straße frei..."
• "Es stehet in Deutschland die eiserne Schar, die kämpfet für Freiheit..."
• "Es zittern die morschen Knochen... SA marschiert, die Straße frei..."
• "Ihr Sturmsoldaten jung und alt..."
• "Siehst Du im Osten Morgenrot...Volk ans Gewehr!"
• "Sturm, Sturm" (Deutschland erwache)



(in reply to Greyshaft)
Post #: 143
RE: Ideas for video triggers - 2/7/2009 8:18:00 AM   
Stabilo

 

Posts: 140
Joined: 2/3/2008
Status: offline
and you can find some tank movies here:

http://www.panzermodellbau.com/index_en.html?videos_en_preview.html&1

and

http://www.panzerlexikon.de/ -> go to "Video-clips"

But I don't know anything about the copyright.



< Message edited by Stabilo -- 2/7/2009 8:23:59 AM >

(in reply to Stabilo)
Post #: 144
RE: Ideas for video triggers - 2/7/2009 8:35:24 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Maybe a ship going down the slip might be appropriate for a naval unit completing its 2nd production cycle.

2nd production cycle ? I always thought going down slipway = end of first production cycle followed by fitting out for a year which was second production cycle. But I'm only a software guy and that sounds like a project management constraint for the hardware team

Yes, going down slipway is the end of first production cycle.
A Software guy ? Are you ITIL ?

(in reply to Greyshaft)
Post #: 145
RE: Ideas for video triggers - 2/7/2009 9:35:13 AM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
A Software guy ? Are you ITIL ?


I'm familiar with ITIL but my specialty in Lotus Notes/Domino - sys admin and app development


_____________________________

/Greyshaft

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 146
RE: Ideas for video triggers - 2/7/2009 5:57:26 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stabilo

Please keep in mind that germans can be amerced for even owning a game with nazi-symbols or songs.

Forbidden songs here in Germany are:

• "Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest geschlossen! SA marschiert..." (sog.
HORST-WESSEL-LIED)
• Melodie d. Horst-Wessel-Liedes, u. U. auch markante Teile davon
• "Brüder in Zechen und Gruben, Brüder ihr hinter dem Pflug...Einst kommt
der Tag der Rache, einmal da werden wir frei! Schaffendes Deutschland
erwache, brich deine Ketten entzwei!"
• "Durch Groß-Berlin marschieren wir... SA marschiert, die Straße frei..."
• "Es stehet in Deutschland die eiserne Schar, die kämpfet für Freiheit..."
• "Es zittern die morschen Knochen... SA marschiert, die Straße frei..."
• "Ihr Sturmsoldaten jung und alt..."
• "Siehst Du im Osten Morgenrot...Volk ans Gewehr!"
• "Sturm, Sturm" (Deutschland erwache)




Essential information for us to know. Thanks.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Stabilo)
Post #: 147
RE: Ideas for video triggers - 2/7/2009 7:56:40 PM   
composer99


Posts: 2923
Joined: 6/6/2005
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline
What about the tune for Deustchland Über Alles? If memory serves, that tune (if not those words), composed by Haydn, is still used in the Austrian national anthem, and even as a hymn in several Christian denominations. That would be a good pick for German 'nationalist' music if it is not verboten in Germany.

As for militaristic German music, the obvious pick would be the Ride of the Valkyries by Wagner; since that has been done to death and we are looking for fairly short clips I think a better choice would be an excerpt from Das Rheingold (also Wagner - the Ring of the Nibelung cycle from which the Valkyrie music is also drawn) when Wotan & company go to get the Ring from Alberich the dwarf - I am thinking specifically of the hammering of the dwarves of Nibelheim at the end of Scene 2. While the context of the scene is not explicitly militaristic, the music itself has a strong rhythm (good for marching) and of course is about industrial-scale toil & servitude.

See http://larrydavisbrown.homestead.com/files/Ring/hammering.mp3 for an excerpt of what I am talking about here.

The actual sequence runs about 2-3 minutes long or so.

_____________________________

~ Composer99

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 148
RE: Ideas for video triggers - 2/7/2009 11:17:01 PM   
terje439


Posts: 6813
Joined: 3/28/2004
Status: offline
Other militaristic music clip for the germans could be
Rot scheint die Sonne
Used by the German paratroopers. (the clip is supposedly from the invasion of Crete)

Wir fahren gegen Engeland

< Message edited by terje439 -- 2/7/2009 11:18:33 PM >

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 149
RE: Ideas for video triggers - 2/8/2009 8:08:23 AM   
Stabilo

 

Posts: 140
Joined: 2/3/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

What about the tune for Deustchland Über Alles? If memory serves, that tune (if not those words), composed by Haydn, is still used in the Austrian national anthem, and even as a hymn in several Christian denominations. That would be a good pick for German 'nationalist' music if it is not verboten in Germany.

As for militaristic German music, the obvious pick would be the Ride of the Valkyries by Wagner; since that has been done to death and we are looking for fairly short clips I think a better choice would be an excerpt from Das Rheingold (also Wagner - the Ring of the Nibelung cycle from which the Valkyrie music is also drawn) when Wotan & company go to get the Ring from Alberich the dwarf - I am thinking specifically of the hammering of the dwarves of Nibelheim at the end of Scene 2. While the context of the scene is not explicitly militaristic, the music itself has a strong rhythm (good for marching) and of course is about industrial-scale toil & servitude.

See http://larrydavisbrown.homestead.com/files/Ring/hammering.mp3 for an excerpt of what I am talking about here.

The actual sequence runs about 2-3 minutes long or so.


"Deutschland, Deutschland über alles..." is the first verse of our national anthem. It was composed by Joseph Haydn, the lyrics are from Hoffmann von Fallersleben. The first verse was sung in the Weimarer Republic and the early years of the Third Reich. Then it was replaced by the Horst-Wessel-Lied.

Since 1949 the third verse ("Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit" - unity and justice and freedom) is the German national anthem.

It is not forbidden to sing the first verse - but it was not common in 1939 or later...

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 150
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