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Battlefield Europe - 2/9/2009 11:54:03 AM   
Powerslave

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 7/26/2003
Status: offline 		So I started on a quite big challlenge. I am creating a big scenario that is set in modern day Europe. There will be 42 "regimes" ranging from Andorra to Russia. It will be possible to play from 1 to 42 human players (though I don't recommend more than 4 or so). To keep this managable all AI nation will be put to sleep and will only be wokened when a human nation declares war on them (in future variants I will try to have a full range of diplomatic options that allow players to use diplomacy to sway over ai nations to their cause). The goal of the game will be to own most VP after a certain amount of time.

The map is 200x196 big which make every hex approx 20-30 km.

I haven't decided on the size of units yet but I will try to have them as small as possible, this I have to try out. Also I will use specific units such as T-72 or F-16C or whatever exists. I have a very good database on todays armed forces in europe. Strenght of indivual units I will need help on but I will use other games as reference (SupremeRuler 2020 comes to mind). In general though units should not die as easily but be more proned to retreat instead.

What I hope to achieve is a scenario where you you have a large range of playing possibilties. Could you win as Ukraine against your Russian friend? or perhaps you are wondering how big you can become as Sweden and then brag about it on the forum?

Anyhow to keep me motivated I started this thread. Now I really can't back down and I have to finish what I started. I will keep a log on how far into making this scenario I am. Later on when I get the first nations on the map with units I'll need players that help me out with balance and such.

Done so far
Map 80%
Regimes 10%
Units 2%
Events 0%






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Powerslave -- 2/11/2009 10:00:28 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Battlefield Europe - 2/9/2009 7:53:04 PM   
82ndtrooper


Posts: 1083
Joined: 12/19/2008
From: tennessee
Status: offline 		This sounds very interesting and I will be watching this thread for progress

(in reply to Powerslave)
Post #: 2
RE: Battlefield Europe - 2/9/2009 8:33:51 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		Sounds a bit like the WWIII scenario just reading about it. Does sound interesting.

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Post #: 3
RE: Battlefield Europe - 2/10/2009 8:00:47 AM   
Powerslave

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 7/26/2003
Status: offline 		I continued updating the map. Now I only have Russia left to do and then I will add roads.

I've started on making units. I've decided to make the unit for a couple of nation first so I could start testing and see if the units has the right balance. I've also decided to make each unit a squad of ten men or one vehicle. APCs and AIFVs will have the passangers included into the combat stats. Unarmoured transports will however not include passangers into the stats. (All this can be changed if the scale are to small and it becomes unmanageable.)

My first nation I will do is Belgium. I've did some units and so far Leopard 1A5BE, YPR-765 (Milan), YPR-765 (25mm), M113A2 and Pandur are ready. Stats are very much Alpha and will probably change alot but I need to start somewhere.

I've research Belgiums OOB and the fighting part of Belgiums army looks something like this.

1st Mechanized Brigade
Armoured Rgt "2/4 Rgt. Lanciers"
Armoured Recon. Rgt "1 Jagers te Pard/Girdsen"
Mechanized Inf. Rgt "Carabiniers Prins Boudewijn Grenadiers"
Mechanized Inf. Rgt "Bevrijding - 5 Line"
2nd Rgt. Veldartillerie

7th Mechanized Brigade
Armoured Rgt "1/3 Lanciers"
Armoured Recon. Rgt "2/4 de Chasseurs á Ceval"
Mechanized Inf. Rgt "12 Ligne Prince Léopold 13 Ligne"
Mechanized Inf. Rgt "Chausseurs Ardennais"
1st Rgt. Artillery de Campagne

Immediate Reaction Cell
1st Paratroop Battalion
2nd Commando Battalion
3rd Paratroop Battalion
Para-Commando Field Artillery Battery (Bij VA Para Cdo)

14 Territorial Defence battalions/Regiments

There are also a Special Forces BN, an engineer section (with 3 engineer battalions).

I will use The Military Balance 2007 as my main equipment reference.

My plan is to make each Regiment or Battalion as actual combat unit that trace supply and HQ back to the Brigade and then to the main HQ in Brussel.

< Message edited by Powerslave -- 2/10/2009 8:14:46 AM >

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 4
RE: Battlefield Europe - 2/10/2009 9:28:40 AM   
Grymme

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 12/16/2007
Status: offline 		Beautiful map and interesting, but very tough project.

A thought for you.

Maybe you could upload the map when finished. So others can use it to create scenarios.
Then when you have dont the SFTs, research ets. upload that also. so people can use map & Sfts.
Then place units, events etc.

If more people designed scenarios this way people would be able to use precreated maps etc. and we wouldnt have to invent the wheel over and over again (this is not criticism against you).

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Post #: 5
RE: Battlefield Europe - 2/10/2009 3:53:28 PM   
explorer2

 

Posts: 465
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grymme
A thought for you.

Maybe you could upload the map when finished. So others can use it to create scenarios.
Then when you have dont the SFTs, research ets. upload that also. so people can use map & Sfts.
Then place units, events etc.

If more people designed scenarios this way people would be able to use precreated maps etc. and we wouldnt have to invent the wheel over and over again (this is not criticism against you).


What a great idea Grymme. THis would make scenario creation/modding much quicker & easier.

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Post #: 6
RE: Battlefield Europe - 2/11/2009 12:15:54 AM   
Tagwyn

 

Posts: 58
Joined: 10/23/2006
Status: offline 		If this game takes as long to play as some of the bigger ones. I'll pass. I'm too old already. t

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Post #: 7
RE: Battlefield Europe - 2/11/2009 8:58:41 PM   
Powerslave

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 7/26/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grymme

Beautiful map and interesting, but very tough project.

A thought for you.

Maybe you could upload the map when finished. So others can use it to create scenarios.
Then when you have dont the SFTs, research ets. upload that also. so people can use map & Sfts.
Then place units, events etc.

If more people designed scenarios this way people would be able to use precreated maps etc. and we wouldnt have to invent the wheel over and over again (this is not criticism against you).


That was my intention when I started this. However the map took such a long time and I was really getting tired of this whole project and that was why I decided to announce my project here. It also helps doing different things to move along and I have so many units, OOBs for different nations and events to do and I was really anxious to get started with that. However when the map is ready I will import the generic masterfile and remove all units and regimes and then post it as a map for people to use. :)

< Message edited by Powerslave -- 2/11/2009 10:01:28 PM >

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Post #: 8
RE: Battlefield Europe - 2/11/2009 9:05:13 PM   
Powerslave

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 7/26/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tagwyn

If this game takes as long to play as some of the bigger ones. I'll pass. I'm too old already. t


Well I gues that depends on what you expect. I am developing this as a scenario pack. You will be able to play any of the 42 european nation in the game. While there will be Victory Points it's really up to the player what he want to achieve. Perhaps You will try to takeover the whole of Europe with Germany then yes... expect a very long game, however perhaps you as Serbia play against your friend managing Croatia... the game will indeed be much shorter. So it's really up to the player what type of game he want to play.

(in reply to Tagwyn)
Post #: 9
RE: Battlefield Europe - 2/11/2009 9:39:17 PM   
Powerslave

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 7/26/2003
Status: offline 		UPDATE!

I have finished with the Belgian, Luxembourg and the Netherland land forces and I've just started testing the units heavily. Things are going great and units are starting to behave the way I want them to. When I am happy with the tests I will move on and do the airforces for the above nations testing them at the same time. Navy comes after that.

I wish I could show a big screenshot of the deployment of the forces that are ready but I get some kind of error when I have screenshot activated, perhaps my map is to large? Here are some smaller screenshots instead.



Holland and Belgium...




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< Message edited by Powerslave -- 2/11/2009 9:40:41 PM >

(in reply to Powerslave)
Post #: 10
RE: Battlefield Europe - 2/11/2009 9:40:29 PM   
Powerslave

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 7/26/2003
Status: offline 		Belgium and Luxembourg...




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 11
RE: Battlefield Europe - 3/10/2009 9:34:44 PM   
lion_of_judah


Posts: 2113
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		so has anyone heard anything about when this map will be finished?

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Post #: 12
RE: Battlefield Europe - 3/12/2009 3:34:52 PM   
Joshuatree

 

Posts: 507
Joined: 12/30/2007
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		... I doubt it, this is a monstruous task for one person. Hats off if he will succeed though.

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 13
RE: Battlefield Europe - 3/19/2009 11:11:18 PM   
von altair


Posts: 316
Joined: 4/27/2004
Status: offline 		Whoah. A huge project over here. I am waiting for this scenario. If it ever comes
ready, it has potential for the same level than WaW is. Good work, keep it going!

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Post #: 14
RE: Battlefield Europe - 3/23/2009 7:00:25 PM   
Powerslave

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 7/26/2003
Status: offline 		I'm still working on this. However I had serious problem with the unit balancing. There are so many things that have to be considered and I did extensive testings on all equipment i've added so far with little succes. I just burnt out and put this project on hold for awhile.

I have started to work on it again and while I still have problem with the unit balancing I decided to start all over with the unit characteristics. Once I get this straight with the units I have it will be easier to add new units.

As someone said this is a pretty big project but it is also alot of fun so I don't plan on scrapping it all together.

As soon as I have some news I write about it here.

(in reply to von altair)
Post #: 15
RE: Battlefield Europe - 3/23/2009 7:19:47 PM   
Grymme

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 12/16/2007
Status: offline 		What you have done so far looks great. I think many scenario modders (me included) suffer from the "i-want-to-make-the-greatest-scenario-ever-directly"-disease. Then when the hugeness of the project goes up for them they get burned and stop modding altogether.

So my advise is to start with something small. so that you can feel the fullfilledness of actually finishing the project. Then you can work yourself up to bigger and bigger and more and more complex scenarios untill suddenly one day you realize that that scenario you always wanted to do is within your reach.

As for using unit types. Why not just tweak the existing types a little. Rename them, change som important statistics and use them. They are balanced and work. I think it is more or less impossible to make a better balance as a hobby modder. Vic worked for four years on AT, to get it right.

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Post #: 16
RE: Battlefield Europe - 5/28/2009 8:56:37 PM   
Grymme

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 12/16/2007
Status: offline 		Saying the same thing here. How is it going Powerslave? Hope you finish the project. Otherwise you could always upload what youve got to the scenariobank.

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http://atgscenarios.wordpress.com

30+ scenarios, maps and mods for AT and AT:G

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Post #: 17
RE: Battlefield Europe - 5/28/2009 9:59:36 PM   
british exil


Posts: 1686
Joined: 5/4/2006
From: Lower Saxony Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grymme


Vic worked for four years on AT, to get it right.


4 Years work and then he released the game, or 4 years including the forum helping out?

Phew some task. Respect!!

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Post #: 18
RE: Battlefield Europe - 5/28/2009 10:17:16 PM   
Grymme

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 12/16/2007
Status: offline 		I think he said somewhere that the project period from Peoples Tactics to releasing Advanced Tactics was 4 years.

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My Advanced Tactics Mod page
http://atgscenarios.wordpress.com

30+ scenarios, maps and mods for AT and AT:G

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Post #: 19
RE: Battlefield Europe - 5/29/2009 1:32:02 AM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		For some reason, modding in AT is harder than expected. This happens due to the extreme flexibility of the game, which transalates in a very open design, demanding too much time for comprehensive modding. I took 18 months to release the difinitive version of my own mod, and also saw a dramatic fall in the release of new scenarios....well....

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Post #: 20
RE: Battlefield Europe - 5/29/2009 2:55:27 AM   
explorer2

 

Posts: 465
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline 		I've also been shocked at how long modding takes. Many reasons for this, but one really big one is if you have lots of events or action cards, like in WaW, and many of them interrelate with one another, testing it all can be very time consuming. I'm not sure anything can be done about that though. But if I were designing something from scratch, I would try to keep events and interrelations of events as simple as possible. Problem is, without events, you're not going to be able to "direct" the game in a more historical direction. Difficult choices, but necessary I think.

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Post #: 21
RE: Battlefield Europe - 5/29/2009 5:01:41 PM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		Even if you only create new units, you will spend a lot of time, as the process of new units development involves new graphics, movements and all these combat statistics. Even worse, for each new scenario you have to change all movement rates based on map scales. This said, I still keep that AT is an excellent game, but the extremely open design that given to the game unprecedent flexibility also makes modding a dauting task. Maybe it´s the fact that modders are too ambitious....anyway, mods with 40 nations are unplayable anyway, because it takes years for the AI to complete a turn and it is impossible to have 40 human players....

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Post #: 22
RE: Battlefield Europe - 6/8/2009 9:05:44 AM   
Powerslave

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 7/26/2003
Status: offline 		I am way to ambitious. I am still working on this "little project" but since I have both been working almost full time as well as doing my exams there hasn´t really been much time to work on this. I think I will get more time now during the summer but I doubt I will be finish before autumn anyway.

Yes playing with 40 ais are impossible. The first event that fire will make all nations not run by humans to go inactive and then events or players will set nations active themselves. So you could say that with this mod you will be able to create your own wars or scenarios in europe as you wish. I don´t recommend activating all ai nations. With some intricate events you could create very different scenarios from this mod.

(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 23
RE: Battlefield Europe - 5/16/2010 4:17:37 AM   
lion_of_judah


Posts: 2113
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		anyone know what has happened to this mod? I'm curious since it did look promising

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Post #: 24
RE: Battlefield Europe - 5/16/2010 8:39:54 AM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline 		Well.. to be honest? I think the deafening silence speaks for itself.
Still, always being the optimist, the scenario could still be finished after a year or two. Heck, if AT2 is backwards compatible with AT, then you could still finish the scenario for AT2 while keeping the work alrady done. It does/did look promising indeed.

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 25
RE: Battlefield Europe - 8/6/2010 3:49:05 AM   
Maddoc06

 

Posts: 58
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline 		Maybe just post the map, or the scenario as it is and we can help!

(in reply to Josh)
Post #: 26
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