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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> RE: German trucks

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RE: German trucks - 10/10/2008 5:47:34 AM

sPzAbt653

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From: east coast, usa
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FitE 5.0 is the original, Buzz' Mod is a mod of FitE 5.0. It isn't available for download as far as I know. If Buzz doesn't send it to you I can. The latest version I have of Buzz' is 7.0 (from 11-07).

(in reply to fogger)

Post #: 271

RE: German trucks - 2/9/2009 10:56:38 PM

wmorris

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Joined: 5/25/2008
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In view of all the discussion of D21 I thought I'd bump the FITE mod as well. I have a lot of hours in my research and modding and am not ready to give up on producing something presentable, but I have to get back up to speed after setting this aside for months.

Can someone mail me the latest FITE mod? Is it 7.0?

wmorrisunc80 (AT) bellsouth (dot) net

EDIT:
I am doing a major refiguring of Soviet aircraft replacements, as posted in D21 thread. Its a little painstaking, but it's pretty clear that the replacement # in the original FITE are too high.

< Message edited by wmorris -- 2/11/2009 1:14:24 AM >

(in reply to sPzAbt653)

Post #: 272

RE: German trucks - 2/11/2009 6:05:18 PM

Zort

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Sent, have fun.

Buzz

(in reply to wmorris)

Post #: 273

RE: German trucks - 2/12/2009 3:58:50 AM

Shazman

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Joined: 1/4/2009
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Are you guys still working on this? If yes, mind if I have a look at what you've done? Shazman at cox dot net

Thanks

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Post #: 274

RE: German trucks - 2/13/2009 4:01:45 PM

wmorris

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Joined: 5/25/2008
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quote:

Sent, have fun.

Buzz

Many thanks.

In answer to Shazman, I have been looking at (as a starting point) Soviet aircraft production, thinking that the numbers are much too high. At first I thought that this was too high by severalfold, but points made by others have led me to believe that the downward revision should be more modest. I am admittedly a noob at this.

Thus far I worked out a baseline on the production taking into account the timed production modifiers (turn 1 x.34, turn 48 x2.0, turn 78 x1.5, and turn 352 x1.5 if memory serves). Now I have to figure out and add in the effects of city losses, and the only way I have considered is to modify by the amount of production loss per city and the historical loss date. This loss is considerable and doesnt occur all at one time. Pretty painstaking.

The point I am at is figuring out what happens when the Russians retake production-loss cities. Reading the events, it looks like the loss is enforced dependent on German occupation and/or subsequent possession of the specified city hex. This would mean that when the Russians retook it, they would regain the 5% (or whatever %) loss. The alternative is that this is assessed once, when the Germans take it, and the Russian player never gets it back, even when he retakes the city.

Calling all experts: Which is true?

(in reply to Shazman)

Post #: 275

RE: German trucks - 2/13/2009 5:38:52 PM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wmorris
...this is assessed once, when the Germans take it, and the Russian player never gets it back, even when he retakes the city.

I'm thinking that once the industry gets destroyed by the Germans that even if the Russians take the city back the industry in the city is still destroyed and therefore unusable and probably can't be re-built in the time frame of the game ('41-'45) and so probably shouldn't be a reason to boost the Soviet production. I don't remember ever getting a boost as the Soviet player when playing FITE and re-capturing a lost city.

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Post #: 276

RE: German trucks - 2/13/2009 8:47:47 PM

Shazman

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The Soviet aircraft industry was moved. Over 1500 factories were moved along with their workers including the second largest steel plant in the world.

One example. The factory evacuations didn't begin in the Leningrad region until the beginning of October yet by the end of the year a former Leningrad KV factory was up and running in the Urals. They only managed to move about 95 factories from Leningrad before the German siege.

So. not so many aircraft factories were lost to the Germans. They simply went someplace else and so for a bit of time didn't produce. In 1941 they still managed to produce about 12400 aircraft and in 42 around 21700 out producing the Germans both years by about 14k aircraft total. Not bad for a 'crippled' industry.

What is really amazing about all of this is that Soviet production peaked during 1942 when the Axis advance was at it's zenith.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)

Post #: 277

RE: German trucks - 2/16/2009 6:15:58 AM

SMK-at-work

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Yes the Soviets never get anything back for retaking cities.

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Post #: 278

RE: Buzz's Fite Mod - 2/16/2009 6:22:01 AM

SMK-at-work

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Total production in FITE (I think assuming no losses) is on page 2 of this thread - posted by Karri - here's what he calculates:

Irregular squad 68 507
Military Police Squad 12 089
Mounted Rifle Squad(late) 45 839
Motorcycle squad 32 238
Light Rifle squad 81 100
Rifle squad 586 840
Heavy Rifle Squad 145 576
SMG squad 224 661
SMG AT- Squad 9 799
Assault Squad 57 163
Reconneisance Rifle Team 10 074
Reconneisance Assault Team 2 519
Engineer Squad 139 532
Rail Repair Crew 15 112
Ferry-Bridging Team 40 802
Support Squad 40 298
Command Group 16 623
Medium MG 61 958
Heavy MG 152 629
AT Rifle 202 497
Heavy AT Rifle 11 615
28mm AT Gun 2 015
45mm AT Gun 92 182
50mm AT Gun 504
57mm/6 Pounder AT Gun 8 060
76mm AT Gun 2 519
85mm AT Gun 2 529
75mm Gun 1 511
76mm Gun 73 040
76mm ER Gun 12 094
76mm Howitzer 24 683
107mm Gun 18 511
107mm ER Gun
122mm Howitzer 10 074
122mm Gun 5 541
122mm ER Gun 8 060
130mm ER Gun 63
152mm Howitzer 1 007
152mm Gun 3 022
152mm ER Gun 4 534
180mm ER Gun 504
203mm Howitzer 504
305mm Gun 40
50mm Mortar 189 834
82mm Mortar 188 393
107mm Mortar 7 052
120mm Mortar 43 824
160mm Mortar 2 454
280mm Fixed Gun
300mm Fixed Gun
400mm Fixed Gun
305mm RR Gun
Armored Train 9
82mm Katyusha MRL 1 511
82mm Katyusha SPMRL 2 519
132mm Katyusha SPMRL 8 095
300mm MRL 3 113
BM-13 132mm SPMRL 1 008
Truck SPAAMG 2 015
Dual AAMG 5 037
Quad AAMG 5 541
37mm AA Gun 22 164
76mm AA Gun 11 586
85mm AA Gun 4 534
Light Scout Car 2 789
Jeep 44 624
Medium Scout Car 2 325
Wheeled 20mm Scout 1 312
BA-10 Armored Car 31 231
BA-20 Armored Car 13 453
BA-64 Armored Car 7 989
Horse Team 256 900
Fast Horse Team 15 112
Truck 101 249
Halftrack 8 997
Amphibious Ferry 900
PzKpfw IIIJ 450
T-26 2 742
T-26(flame)
T-27
T-28(early) 40
T-28(late) 40
T-37 1 089
T-38 565
T-40 605
T-60 5 988
T-70 28 459
BT-5
BT-7 2 016
OT-7
T-35
KV-I(early) 2 261
KV-I(late) 456
KV-II 202
KV-85 215
T-34/76(early) 8 445
T-34/76(flame) 232
T-34/76(late) 28 415
T-34/85 39 360
SU-76 20 497
SU-85 4 530
SU-100 4 889
ISU-122 3 937
ISU-152 5 279
IS-II 5 627
Matilda II 1 263
Valentine(early) 4 789
M3 Lee/Grant 1 819
M4/75 Sherman 5 760
Destroyer 6
Cruiser(early) 3
Light Cruiser 3
Heavy Cruiser 3
Battlecruiser
Battleship 2
I-15
I-16 5 525
SB-2
Il-4 3 386
Il-2 51 884
LaGG-3 7 418
La-5FN 13 065
La-7 8 624
MiG-1
MiG-3 2 420
Pe-2 15 053
Su-2
Tu-2 1 417
Yak-1 18 745
Yak-4
Yak-9 32 136
Hurricane 3 747
Spitfire(late) 1 874
Lancaster(late) 2 833
Tempest 2 361
SBD Dauntless 2 833
A-20 Havoc 4 794
B-17(late) 2 015
B-26 Marauder(late) 2 015
P-39 Aircobra 8 266
P-40(late) 2 908
P-51 Mustang(late) 8 563

(in reply to Karri)

Post #: 279

RE: German trucks - 11/1/2009 12:47:37 AM

Panama

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Yes the Soviets never get anything back for retaking cities.

I realize it's been awhile since this thread has been active but I have to dispute this. The Soviets, upon taking ground back from the Axis, would draft every male capable of using a weapon. Training would be short since all they wanted was cannon fodder, or tank fodder in the age of armor.

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Post #: 280

RE: German trucks - 11/6/2009 5:28:21 PM

sPzAbt653

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Any manpower numbers on what the Soviets gained by retaking particular areas?

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Post #: 281

RE: German trucks - 11/8/2009 8:42:15 AM

Raver508

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Hey is it possible to get a hold of this mod from someone? I'm also keen to know if there is any documentation showing the changes it makes from the base game and whether there is a general consensus as to which side this mod tends to favour.

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Post #: 282

RE: German trucks - 11/29/2009 1:19:30 PM

Karri

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Anyone still got the mod?

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Post #: 283

RE: German trucks - 12/1/2009 6:16:30 PM

philturco

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Has anything been done in this mod to address the problem of the game usually being decided before the first winter? In all the games I've played an early full scale Soviet withdrawal has allowed the Soviets to build an impregnable maginot line type of defense in the Smolensk area for the entire front. Not much fun,

(in reply to Karri)

Post #: 284

Buzz's Fite Mod - 12/11/2009 2:46:33 PM

BigDuke66

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From: Terra
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I would like to know too if there has been changes lately or has work stopped on this scenario?

Is there maybe a changelog to the original FitE 5.0 version?

Also I would like to know if any adjustments from the D21 version flow into this version too especially production and stuff like that.

Can't anyone upload the latest version somewhere?

< Message edited by BigDuke66 -- 12/12/2009 2:57:51 AM >

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Post #: 285

RE: Buzz's Fite Mod - 12/15/2009 1:47:00 AM

Zort

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No I haven't been working on it for a bunch of months. Check the beginning of this forum, that shows most of the changes I made.

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Post #: 286

RE: Buzz's Fite Mod - 12/19/2009 1:34:12 PM

fogger

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Can someone please explain the "enemy loss penlty" to me. I am currently playing a game (buzz's mod 7) as the Germans. On turn 60 the Russian loss pently was 195. On turn 65 it was 203, then on turn 68 it dropped to 194, on turn 70 it was 185 and now on turn 71 it is 175. My figure was going up slowly but on this turn it has also dropped.

Also on a second point for anybody about to start a game, you will need to look at the reconstruction point for the Finnish army. At present all the Finnish units are reconstructing in Berlin.

(in reply to Zort)

Post #: 287

RE: Buzz's Fite Mod - 12/19/2009 4:47:12 PM

Curtis Lemay

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fogger

Can someone please explain the "enemy loss penlty" to me. I am currently playing a game (buzz's mod 7) as the Germans. On turn 60 the Russian loss pently was 195. On turn 65 it was 203, then on turn 68 it dropped to 194, on turn 70 it was 185 and now on turn 71 it is 175. My figure was going up slowly but on this turn it has also dropped.

Losses increase the total and replacements decrease it.

(in reply to fogger)

Post #: 288

RE: Buzz's Fite Mod - 12/29/2009 2:15:03 AM

larryfulkerson

Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66
Can't anyone upload the latest version somewhere?

Buzz finally responded to my email and sent me his latest and best version ( 7.0 ). I put it on a file server and you can find it here:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/e2zfxmdd4jl/Buzzs FITE MOD_2009_12_28.zip

I'm pretty sure it doesn't have a PO for either side but it's more balanced than the original FITE. At least that was the intent of the changes.

EDIT: Changed the link to the Buzz mod file to a place that works.

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 3/30/2010 7:52:11 AM >

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Post #: 289

RE: Buzz's Fite Mod - 12/29/2009 2:19:24 AM

Raver508

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That's great, thanks Larry!

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Post #: 290

RE: German trucks - 12/29/2009 3:17:20 AM

Panama

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Any manpower numbers on what the Soviets gained by retaking particular areas?

Example quoted from Scorched Earth by Paul Carell. Part five "To the Dnieper: Fighting on the Mius" page 321:

"In the reconquered areas behind the front, throughout towns and villages, he (Stalin) mobilized anybody able to carry a rifle. Young boys and old men were enlisted into depot battalions. They were clothed and trained on the way to the front. They drew a rifle, a tunic or uniform trousers, a pair of boots, and perhaps a steel helmet. They were taught to load and to fire. No more. And then they attacked. In this way the Soviet Southern Frount recruited 80,000 men in the regions along the Sea of Azov within a mere three weeks. This was total war."

This was Soviet doctrine in the reconquered lands. This is why, where possible, the Germans attempted to strip everything from the land in their retreat across the Soviet Union. People, animals, crops, anything not fastened down that they could take with them. What they couldn't take they destroyed. What they couldn't destroy they booby trapped if they had the time. Of course this wasn't always possible since, st times, the retreats were long and disorganized. Sounds like the Soviet retreats in 41 and 42, eh?

This book is a good read as well as "Hitler Moves East".

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Post #: 291

RE: German trucks - 12/30/2009 2:37:03 AM

fogger

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Hello Everybody,
I am currently on turn 75 in the above game. Some of the "bugs" in this mod are
1. The Finnish units reconstruct in Berlin.
2. Sevastopol (152,235) does not become an Axis supply point once the Germans capture it.
3. Under the current rules if the Russian play makes an all out attack on Finland during the first winter the Germans can not send any reinforcements (apart from rule 7). Whereas in June 1944 when the Russians did make an all out attack the Finns requested 6 divisions from the Germans. Players may like to make an optional rule here.

Apart from the above (I am still trying to work out how to fix the first two) it is a good game

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Post #: 292

RE: German trucks - 12/30/2009 3:23:04 AM

sPzAbt653

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quote:

In this way the Soviet Southern Frount recruited 80,000 men in the regions along the Sea of Azov within a mere three weeks.

I did not know that this was the case. I would have guessed that the Germans left no one and nothing behind. Thanks for the stat and the referance.

(in reply to Panama)

Post #: 293

RE: German trucks - 12/30/2009 10:21:51 AM

Raver508

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How is the balance looking in your game Foggy?

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Post #: 294

RE: German trucks - 12/31/2009 5:44:29 PM

Foggy

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Well it's 5.0 - I'm doing okay - counterattacking everywhere because it's winter. I'm not looking forward to the spring/summer of 42 - he can rebuild too fast if I follow historical leanings!

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Post #: 295

RE: German trucks - 1/16/2010 1:30:33 PM

Telumar

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What i am missing is a complete list of changes for version 7.

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paul carrel - 1/16/2010 1:56:31 PM

loveman2

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Paul Carrel wrote 2 books on the war in the east and are a brilliant read, he did intend to publish a third to complete the series however I read somewhere that he died. A sad loss for east front enthusiasts

< Message edited by loveman1 -- 1/16/2010 1:57:07 PM >

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Post #: 297

RE: paul carrel - 1/16/2010 8:48:15 PM

Raver508

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Telumar - I think someone said there was a pretty comprehensive list toward the start of this thread.

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Post #: 298

RE: paul carrel - 1/16/2010 9:11:53 PM

Panama

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Is that replacement list Karri put together for the Soviets the maximum they can get if no cities are taken? Also, far too much lendlease and how would you separate lendlease from Soviet production?

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Post #: 299

RE: paul carrel - 1/16/2010 9:40:33 PM

Karri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panama

Is that replacement list Karri put together for the Soviets the maximum they can get if no cities are taken? Also, far too much lendlease and how would you separate lendlease from Soviet production?

I think it was with historical loss dates for cities.

(in reply to Panama)

Post #: 300