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RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/3/2009 8:09:32 PM   
HistoryGuy


Posts: 80
Joined: 1/7/2009
From: Woodbridge, VA
Status: offline 		I totally agree with all points above. I would think that a high political point cost for transferring Chinese Divisions to Burma would be realistic PRIOR TO something like the Sittang debacle. Not sure if that is easy to write into the program, but could probably be triggered by an event such as Mandalay or Akyab falling into Japanese hands.

Speaking of Sittang.......do friendly airstrikes (RAF) sometimes hit friendly units (17th Indian Division) in AE??

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Post #: 1141
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/3/2009 11:26:15 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		In AE there are no Chinese units under SEAC command. A simple house rule preventing Chinese command units (by either side) from leaving China (and a similar one for Kwangtung forces) without changing commands has always sufficed for me in WitP.

As for friendly fire, I dont believe it is in there.

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Post #: 1142
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/5/2009 6:34:51 PM   
pad152

 

Posts: 2871
Joined: 4/23/2000
Status: offline 		In mods like CHS, land units would sometimes grow beyond their normal TOE (more men, more equipment) is this true in AE?

If Japan creates more tanks, guns, etc. will it just set in the pools or go to units beyond their standard TOE?

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Post #: 1143
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/15/2009 12:04:44 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		It should be limited to the now changing TOE

except for AI units with Av Support which has the same stock fix

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Post #: 1144
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/16/2009 7:12:28 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Speed mobility issue:Does it is possible to put inside a foot based infantry unit a vehicle based recon battalion or regiment that when it is split that subunit gets faster speed than main body?

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Post #: 1145
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/16/2009 7:13:11 PM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		Dili: thinking about "Flying column"?

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RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/16/2009 7:21:25 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah that too :). There are several units that have a mobile battalions while most other subunits aren't motorised.

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Post #: 1147
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/16/2009 10:02:51 PM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		I think, that unless you combine units into Division, you could use those motorised parts. But once in a Division you could only split them into /A/B/C - SAIEW

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Post #: 1148
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/16/2009 11:03:40 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Correct you cannot seperate them out after you combine them

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Post #: 1149
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/16/2009 11:42:34 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
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quote:

Correct you cannot seperate them out after you combine them


Hmm i think i have read it here that a Division/Brigade could have subunits and that they could be split by those subunits and then i obviously infered merged and split at wish by those components put in OOB, only those units that have no designed subunits split by A/B/C. Isn't that true?

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Post #: 1150
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/16/2009 11:56:19 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		No take 2nd British Div

It starts out as 4th 5th and 6th Bde Gps (all Inf) and 2nd Div Recce Regt (Armour)

When recombined for the first time all those sub units form into 2nd British Div (Inf)

2nd Inf Div can be broken down but it will break down to 2nd/A B C with no recce Regt seperate - the Recce Regt is effectively allocated to each Bde Gp at that point

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Post #: 1151
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/17/2009 3:59:06 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		So is there a penalty for not combining them into the Division in the first place? 

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Post #: 1152
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/17/2009 4:34:14 AM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/2/2003
From: Boise, ID - USA
Status: offline 		Along those same lines, what happens in 'A' split is 100% destroyed, but 'B' and 'C' survive. Will we be able to recombine 'B' and 'C' in AE?

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RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/17/2009 4:49:19 AM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

So is there a penalty for not combining them into the Division in the first place? 


Yes, a big one -- you'll have to give 3 (or 6 or 10) sets of orders to move all the d*mn units -- instead of just one.

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(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 1154
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/17/2009 6:23:27 AM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HistoryGuy
but could probably be triggered by an event such as Mandalay or Akyab falling into Japanese hands.


This would fly in the face of reality, Chinese troops were in theater long before Mandalay or Akyab fell.

China sent two armies (5th and 6th) each containing three divisions into Burma to help defend the Sittang aroud Toungoo. The 200th (a mechanized division) held its ground for 12 days against the Japanese and was the most successful allied combat unit to fight in Burma in the 42 campaign.

The only reason the Sittang line fell, was Chiang interfered with Stillwell’s orders and the 22nd division refused to move south to relieve the 200th as it headed north for rest. Thus the entire line was unhinged and the route from Burma began shortly thereafter. Had Chiang left well enough alone, the allies could very well have held the line for quite some time.

http://www.history.army.mil/brochures/burma42/burma42.htm

What really gets me is the fact Chiang released the two armies to move into Burma on March 1st, yet the units were in line and prepared to defend their ground for the Japanese attacks that came in mid March.

In game it takes MONTHS to move into Burma, so forcing the allies to save up and pay to release those 6 divisions pretty much guarantees that they’ll never make it to the battle on time.

Jim





< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 2/17/2009 6:30:39 AM >

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RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/17/2009 8:45:21 AM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline
quote:

No take 2nd British Div
It starts out as 4th 5th and 6th Bde Gps (all Inf) and 2nd Div Recce Regt (Armour)
When recombined for the first time all those sub units form into 2nd British Div (Inf)
2nd Inf Div can be broken down but it will break down to 2nd/A B C with no recce Regt seperate - the Recce Regt is effectively allocated to each Bde Gp at that point


Oh Damn...! Thanks.

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Post #: 1156
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/17/2009 12:51:32 PM   
drw61


Posts: 894
Joined: 6/30/2004
From: South Carolina
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

No take 2nd British Div

It starts out as 4th 5th and 6th Bde Gps (all Inf) and 2nd Div Recce Regt (Armour)

When recombined for the first time all those sub units form into 2nd British Div (Inf)

2nd Inf Div can be broken down but it will break down to 2nd/A B C with no recce Regt seperate - the Recce Regt is effectively allocated to each Bde Gp at that point


Will the individual Bde Gps upgrade devices? Or do I have to recombine to get any upgrades? (IE. get the British Inf 41 to upgrade to British Inf 43)

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Post #: 1157
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/17/2009 2:30:18 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Devices of the individual units will upgrade as normal

TOE is driven by the parent unit.

So to get the late war improved TOE's especially on the Indian Divs where they gain a 10th Inf Bn but lose a lot of Arty and Motorised Support you need to combine them

e.g. 17th Indian Div starts as a normal Indian Div a little light on Arty etc compared to a M/E TOE Div but standard - its 3 Bde Groups are 1/3 of the parent TOE's adjusted for the proportion of Indian and British Bns per Bde

(This is from memory and this div is the most complicated so bear with me)

It gets potetnially 5 TOE upgrades

1. To an ultra light TOE post Burma
2. To a normal Indian Div but less one British Bn and Jungle TOE'd as the Indianisation of the Div started to happen.
3. To an all Indian Div as the Indianisation proceeds and British Bns are withdrawn for use in other Divs or for replacements (p.s. 3. may be wrong I cannot remember off hand which Indian Divs went all Indian Bns so 3. may not apply to 17th)
4. An extra security Bn is added to all Indian Divs to provide HQ and all round defence making them all 10 Bn Divs (Does not apply to other CW forces just Indian Army Divs)
5. The Division is re motorised to support the armoured spearheads (In this context we treat Motorised Divs as Armoured Units)

So there is a big incentive for some units to combine them

Most Japanese units dont get TOE progression they get device progression but not TOE so its less of an issue there.

USMC, Australian and Indian Infantry are the bulk of the TOE changes that occur.

Andy





Andy

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Post #: 1158
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/17/2009 2:42:06 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Wow, all this detail for LCUs but no crew factors for ships. Sorry Andy, my little peeve.

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Post #: 1159
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/17/2009 3:52:25 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		What's that? [Listens toward a distant sound.]

Hey Ron, it's the Sirens of Zakynthos calling, it's for you!


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Post #: 1160
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/17/2009 3:53:38 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Don't worry Ron I look forward to being the recipient of a whole new set of gripes post release.

6 hours for the first I can't believe they did this/missed this/screwed this up is my personal selection in the sweepstake and I think I may lose because you will all be faster than that

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Post #: 1161
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/17/2009 4:34:45 PM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/2/2003
From: Boise, ID - USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

USMC, Australian and Indian Infantry are the bulk of the TOE changes that occur.



Care to share any details on the changes the USMC undergo? Would be very curious to see how this is handled in AE.

Thanks in advance.

Chad

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Post #: 1162
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/17/2009 4:41:23 PM   
wworld7


Posts: 1727
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

What's that? [Listens toward a distant sound.]

Hey Ron, it's the Sirens of Zakynthos calling, it's for you!




Perhaps all the chatter of the goats is causing interference...

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Flipper

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Post #: 1163
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/17/2009 5:33:49 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Wow, all this detail for LCUs but no crew factors for ships. Sorry Andy, my little peeve.


Yeah, we know you wanted that - it's why we didn't do it.



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Post #: 1164
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/17/2009 5:58:05 PM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		I wanted it too - that's probably the REAL reason we didn't do it!


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Post #: 1165
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/17/2009 8:12:45 PM   
rockmedic109

 

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline 		This level of detail is truly amazing.  I am drooling already and it hasn't been released yet.  My wife thinks I've  just had a stroke.

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Post #: 1166
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/17/2009 9:12:21 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

What's that? [Listens toward a distant sound.]

Hey Ron, it's the Sirens of Zakynthos calling, it's for you!




Perhaps all the chatter of the goats is causing interference...


Since women are immune to the song of the sirens, perhaps men who prefer goats are also immune?






Sorry guys, I couldn't resist...


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fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 1167
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/17/2009 10:24:55 PM   
Monter_Trismegistos

 

Posts: 1359
Joined: 2/1/2005
From: Gdansk
Status: offline 		Does Japan has any motorised infantry (treated as armoured) units?

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Post #: 1168
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/17/2009 10:33:58 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		A few Regts part of 1st and 2nd Tank Divs is about all I think

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Post #: 1169
RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 2/17/2009 11:32:55 PM   
Kereguelen


Posts: 1829
Joined: 5/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

A few Regts part of 1st and 2nd Tank Divs is about all I think


Yup, only the three 'Mobile Regiments' that were part of 1st - 3rd Armored Divisions.

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