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How the west was won - 2/22/2009 9:03:50 PM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Hello folks,
I would like to see a computer game based on General Custer and the 7th calvary, trying to restore order against the Sioux and all the other Red Indian tribes, you could have all them civilians attempting to move in big waggon trains,searching for new land to live in and grow crops or build big ranches for herds of cattle ?

With the Indians attempting to drive them from there land.


Battle of the little big horn could be a scenario.

Anyone from Matrix interested in creating a game all about this period in Americas history, yes, no, maybe perhaps?

< Message edited by hellfirejet -- 2/22/2009 9:14:05 PM >

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Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller
Post #: 1
RE: How the west was won - 2/22/2009 9:24:14 PM   
leastonh1


Posts: 879
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: West Yorkshire, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hellfirejet
With the Indians attempting to drive them from there land.

I thought it was the other way around?

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2nd Lt. George Rice: Looks like you guys are going to be surrounded.
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Post #: 2
RE: How the west was won - 2/22/2009 9:35:50 PM   
old man of the sea


Posts: 454
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: Waynesboro, PA
Status: offline 		my advice is to lock this up.

Genocide is not the theme for a game in my opinion.

E


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Post #: 3
RE: How the west was won - 2/22/2009 10:03:58 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Pretty despicable idea, to be sure...

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Post #: 4
RE: How the west was won - 2/22/2009 10:13:04 PM   
leastonh1


Posts: 879
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: West Yorkshire, England
Status: offline 		hellfirejet - This is a polite suggestion. Read up on American history and then you'll understand why people here would get so upset with your original post.


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2nd Lt. George Rice: Looks like you guys are going to be surrounded.
Richard Winters: We're paratroopers, Lieutenant, we're supposed to be surrounded.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 5
RE: How the west was won - 2/22/2009 10:24:05 PM   
jjax


Posts: 289
Joined: 2/24/2005
Status: offline 		Worst idea i've heard in a long time.....

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Post #: 6
RE: How the west was won - 2/22/2009 10:39:10 PM   
Dennistoun


Posts: 233
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Perth, Scotland.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jjax

Worst idea i've heard in a long time.....


Was the bit about being from Scotland edited?

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Post #: 7
RE: How the west was won - 2/22/2009 10:44:49 PM   
jjax


Posts: 289
Joined: 2/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: teddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: jjax

Worst idea i've heard in a long time.....


Was the bit about being from Scotland edited?


Yep.....I was going to say that being from scotland (and over seas in general) may excuse an individual from knowing how sensitive those type of issues are for us North Americans. But then again, it is probably not much of a stretch for you to figure it out on your own....so i took it out.

Don't worry...it wasn't a jab at scots

< Message edited by jjax -- 2/22/2009 10:45:21 PM >

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RE: How the west was won - 2/22/2009 11:16:07 PM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		"How The West Was Won?" A good live album by Led Zeppelin.

Otherwise speaking, a thread worthy of burial.

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Post #: 9
RE: How the west was won - 2/22/2009 11:30:44 PM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Ok folks,
I opologise I did not mean to offend anyone I just like all them western movies!

How does it differ from the Union v Confederate situation? Matrix have game relating to that.

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 10
RE: How the west was won - 2/22/2009 11:40:29 PM   
hadberz


Posts: 1629
Joined: 5/11/2000
From: Moncks Corner, SC
Status: offline 		If your looking for US Indians wars wargames, This is the only one that I know of that's still for sell, Custers Last Command http://www.jlssg.com/custer.html

Age of Rifles has scenarios covering the US Indians wars, but good luck finding it for sell anywhere.

Any new wargame on the subject should focus on the military aspects of the conflict.

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Post #: 11
RE: How the west was won - 2/22/2009 11:42:35 PM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		The truth is that this aspect of American history evokes very strong emotional responses, so we are not yet ready for that type of game.  The closest we have is Wars in America (BOA2), in which Native Americans are combatants.  Check it out.  

(in reply to hellfirejet)
Post #: 12
RE: How the west was won - 2/22/2009 11:48:59 PM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Hello KG Erwin,
You do not have to explain about the early history of America, Scotland v England have had our share off history as well, again I opologise if I have upset anyone that was the last thing I would want to do sorry guys

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 13
RE: How the west was won - 2/23/2009 12:13:15 AM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
Status: offline 		Dang, you guys got all riled up over nothing.....hellfirejet odviously wasn't talking about genocide but was tell he would like to see battles after the Civil War as the US began to expand west, don't see whats so ''despicable'' about that.I myself would like to play Custer's Last stand and see if I could have done things differently and actually have survived....

(in reply to hellfirejet)
Post #: 14
RE: How the west was won - 2/23/2009 12:45:18 AM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hadberz

If your looking for US Indians wars wargames, This is the only one that I know of that's still for sell, Custers Last Command http://www.jlssg.com/custer.html

Age of Rifles has scenarios covering the US Indians wars, but good luck finding it for sell anywhere.

Any new wargame on the subject should focus on the military aspects of the conflict.



Thanks hadberz,
I checked out the link and have downloaded the Custer demo. I used to play the battle of the little big horn board game many moons ago, thanks again for link cheers

Update I just run the game from the link Custers last command, and the game runs using Vista great stuff,don't know how old the game is but it looks interesting.


< Message edited by hellfirejet -- 2/23/2009 12:53:23 AM >

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to hadberz)
Post #: 15
RE: How the west was won - 2/23/2009 1:00:51 AM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3989
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline 		Political correctness has infected gamers too apparently. Honestly, I was somewhat surprised by the suggestion too. It would, however, be a very interesting game.

It seems that if Nazi Germany had its way in Russia (the plan was so crazy I doubt it would have survived Hitler anyway), Russian west of the Volga would have been eliminated. Should eastern front games be banned? What about the various colony/empire building games, those involved some very nasty idea's. WW2 in China, anyone?

The American treatment of the Indians is not something to be proud about, but it was inevitable. A culture barely removed from the stone age came into contact with the modern world. The two were not going to mix-one had to go. There was no question as to which one it was going to be. This was something dictated by fate.

Also, I would say it was more a matter of control and eliminating a way of life, rather than genocide. There are millions of native Americans around today-with some pretty cushy benefits. There are also many millions of "white" and "black" Americans with Indian blood in them. I will not argue that they were not treated unfairly, that is clear. Treaties were also broken multiple times. The simple truth is that there was no room for nomadic nations on the north American continent-especially if they took up arms to repulse the invader's.

It would make an interesting game. Some events of that era would be unsettling though. No doubt that in our brave new world some would call such a game a hate crime.

BTW, whatever happened to that first north American settlement?

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Post #: 16
RE: How the west was won - 2/23/2009 1:07:59 AM   
PunkReaper


Posts: 1085
Joined: 8/23/2006
From: England
Status: offline 		Hellfirejet I remember playing for hours The Battle of the Little Big Horn..../







Attachment (2)

< Message edited by Punk Reaper -- 2/23/2009 1:08:27 AM >

(in reply to 06 Maestro)
Post #: 17
RE: How the west was won - 2/23/2009 1:17:14 AM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Hi Punk Reaper,
Well them photos bring back many happy memories cheers

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to PunkReaper)
Post #: 18
RE: How the west was won - 2/23/2009 1:20:36 AM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline 		I could care less about Polical correctness. Some americans reek of it. So guys let get off our high horse. This guy ment nothing by it. I think most knew that, even after they said what they did.
quote:

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

Political correctness has infected gamers too apparently. Honestly, I was somewhat surprised by the suggestion too. It would, however, be a very interesting game.

It seems that if Nazi Germany had its way in Russia (the plan was so crazy I doubt it would have survived Hitler anyway), Russian west of the Volga would have been eliminated. Should eastern front games be banned? What about the various colony/empire building games, those involved some very nasty idea's. WW2 in China, anyone?

The American treatment of the Indians is not something to be proud about, but it was inevitable. A culture barely removed from the stone age came into contact with the modern world. The two were not going to mix-one had to go. There was no question as to which one it was going to be. This was something dictated by fate.

Also, I would say it was more a matter of control and eliminating a way of life, rather than genocide. There are millions of native Americans around today-with some pretty cushy benefits. There are also many millions of "white" and "black" Americans with Indian blood in them. I will not argue that they were not treated unfairly, that is clear. Treaties were also broken multiple times. The simple truth is that there was no room for nomadic nations on the north American continent-especially if they took up arms to repulse the invader's.

It would make an interesting game. Some events of that era would be unsettling though. No doubt that in our brave new world some would call such a game a hate crime.

BTW, whatever happened to that first north American settlement?



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Post #: 19
RE: How the west was won - 2/23/2009 1:22:14 AM   
PunkReaper


Posts: 1085
Joined: 8/23/2006
From: England
Status: offline 		I think that us Brits don't realise how sensitive our American cousins are about Native Americans. Hey I've just played Hammer of the Scots and didn't feel guilty once

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Post #: 20
RE: How the west was won - 2/23/2009 1:22:40 AM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Hi O6 Maestro,
I agree it would make an interesting game, I did not mean to offend anyone with the post!

By the way although Japan attacked the USA before declaring war officially I would guess Japan also have a reason to distrust the USA thanks to the Atomic bombs ?

But it did end the war very much sooner!

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to 06 Maestro)
Post #: 21
RE: How the west was won - 2/23/2009 1:26:39 AM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		By the way Punk Reaper,
I'm trying to get all the Scottish builders who are out off work just now to help rebuild Hadrians wall. Hehehehe

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to PunkReaper)
Post #: 22
RE: How the west was won - 2/23/2009 1:27:10 AM   
Mac67

 

Posts: 496
Joined: 3/7/2006
From: Essex, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hellfirejet
Scotland v England have had our share off history as well


Now that was biased, you had Mel Gibson on your side



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Post #: 23
RE: How the west was won - 2/23/2009 1:30:11 AM   
PunkReaper


Posts: 1085
Joined: 8/23/2006
From: England
Status: offline 		Don't get me started about Mel Gibson and Braveheart....... What a rubbish film...... He makes up his history as he goes along. Now If he played General Custer he would have beaten the Indians and managed to blame the English.

(in reply to Mac67)
Post #: 24
RE: How the west was won - 2/23/2009 1:31:47 AM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Yes and he looks braw wearing a skirt big jessie Oh no it was a KILT not a skirt hehehehe

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to Mac67)
Post #: 25
RE: How the west was won - 2/23/2009 1:33:48 AM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		He was good in Patriot He did win single handed did he not ?

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to PunkReaper)
Post #: 26
RE: How the west was won - 2/23/2009 1:37:31 AM   
PunkReaper


Posts: 1085
Joined: 8/23/2006
From: England
Status: offline 		Only because he was writing the script. I'm surprised he wasn't allowed to survive in the film and become king if England

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Post #: 27
RE: How the west was won - 2/23/2009 1:38:11 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Don't worry about it, Hellfirejet. I don't think it would be an easy conflict to model though and probably not as interesting as you think. There's a lot of history there with plenty of conflict on all sides and some fairly even battles at times, but I don't think it really would make a good wargame. The overall strategic picture was not a balanced one and the long-term outcome was never really in doubt. Plus, as you can see, it's a touchy subject.

Guys, I understand why some of you got up in arms given the way some parts of the original post were phrased, but seriously. If we can discuss wargames involving Nazi Germany, I certainly would have thought we could handle discussing Custer.

With that said, I'm locking this up given how folks have already gotten worked up, tossing around terms like genocide.

Regards,

- Erik

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC



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Post #: 28
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