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Timing for next patch? - 2/27/2009 8:02:33 PM

GShock

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JastaV and I are interested in playing a PBEM and we already also agreed on posting 2 full and separated AARs to document it. Since we're both ultra experienced with the AGE engine this looks to be a very promising WiA game.

However I have requested to postpone this match till a few problems are solved.

1) Besieged force resupplies at will from the very same regional facilities.

2) The Shipping box rules management differ from setting to setting with the least micromanagement corresponding to the least EP generated but unfortunately this doesn't match the prices to be paid in EP for the various actions. EP prices should match the % of EP generated according to the rule in place.

I was wondering if there are any news about these reported issues. Some sort of timing would be nice so we can get organized on when to actually start this pbem.

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RE: Timing for next patch? - 2/27/2009 8:46:06 PM

dunnsa

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1) WIP. Prototype works well

2) Please point me to where this was reported so I can understand it better. Design discussion started with WIA beta team.

Patch timing TBD. Bug list submitted and being worked on.

< Message edited by lodilefty -- 2/27/2009 9:36:36 PM >

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Post #: 2

RE: Timing for next patch? - 2/28/2009 1:39:38 AM

GShock

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1) This answer was a charm.

2) Reported to Hok who was busy on other project. I'll explain:

I am merely remarking upon the paradox of a math proportion between EP "income" and "expense" where the changing of the rule alters only one parameter (the EP shipping income) while it should alter both parameters (the expense too).

Ledger choices make sense when playing with full antimicromanagement rules for shipping boxes. The EPs generated with this setting really force the player to take choices and are just basically perfect.
When this rule is not in place the amount of EPs generated per turn is so high that there's no need to take a choice...you can take all options even simultaneously.

Example: Rightmost shipping rule =

You generate 4 points per turn and supplies cost 20 EPs. Balanced: it takes 5 turns to build 20 EPs.

Example: Leftmost (Default) shipping rule =

You generate 8 points per turn (with same number of ships) and supplies cost 20EPs. Unbalanced: It takes 3 turns to build 20EPs.

4:20=8:X
X=40 <--

(Figures are according to example on 4 and 8 numbers)

You understand what i am trying to say?

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RE: Timing for next patch? - 2/28/2009 11:05:56 AM

Arsan

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Hi

Certainly on previous version EP's were to easy to come by. One could buy all the options and still have EP to spare.
But on this last patch i think they were reduced.
Playing the 1755 campaign as the British i get 4+4+3 EPs form the boxes plus some other from taking strategic towns, events and the like.
Let say like 15 per turn. With this number i can only take an option a turn and i have to make choices and let a dozen unused options in store.
I think the generation/spend is more or less Ok now.
Maybe on the 1775 campaigns EP's are more numerous??

(i have not tried it on 1.04c)

PS: i always play with the micromanaging naval option. IMHO there is not much to do there on WIA (much less than on AACW) so i don't see much use for the automated managing of the boxes.

< Message edited by Arsan -- 2/28/2009 11:08:22 AM >

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Post #: 4

RE: Timing for next patch? - 2/28/2009 12:34:44 PM

dunnsa

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Fascinating math. Of course, it typically takes the USA side that long to buy supply too, and the purchase of it is not simulating shipping across an ocean
[note that the FIW Campaign has added French Merchants, so they are also affected...]

At this time, we will probably not change the EP costs in options when the naval option is changed.

There are ample other opportunities to earn EP:
Hold Strategic Cities
Capture Objectives
Win battles
Events

The simplification of the naval handling [allowing privateers and other combat ships longevity in shipping boxes] is offset by fewer EP from shipping, which reduces the need for expensive combat ships [Privateers, Frigates, etc] to be there. Look at it as a difficulty setting, reducing the huge advantages given the side with merchants [usually GBR]

Corollary: AFAIK, choosing the similar option in AACW does not reduce the costs of unit purchases. Same logic.

Your opinion on this component of the game is duly noted, and will recieve all the consideration it is due.

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RE: Timing for next patch? - 2/28/2009 3:42:51 PM

GShock

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Very well, we shall wait for the next patch and then start our pbem.

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RE: Timing for next patch? - 2/28/2009 8:41:54 PM

GShock

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P.S. to be extrasure, when i mentioned 1) i was also meaning that besieged troops not only get resupplied but they also get replacements. I really hope your prototype takes this thing in consideration. Anyway, no hurry, we can wait for the PBEM.

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RE: Timing for next patch? - 3/2/2009 11:17:32 AM

JastaV

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EP flow is okay in first 2-3 years of longer campaign scenarios.
Not so later when player gains advantage over Athena: at that point you have a mess of EP against few Options to activate.

Notice, gains from Options activation have till a limited effect over game. For example by MO you'll get very few units while most new units will be added by scripted events.
There's not a war effort mamagement in WIA.

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Post #: 8

Is FE counter working??????? - 3/2/2009 11:24:29 AM

JastaV

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Is FE counter working???????
Playing the USA Indipendence War GC scenario for British side I achived a negative FE points value, none the less France and Spain jointed the rebel side.
That's okay for game challenge and for historical accuracy, but I start thinking FE does not work....
Why I should, as a player, expend EP to activate Options influencing the FE in my favour when France and Spain will joint the Rebel side anyway?

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Post #: 9

RE: Is FE counter working??????? - 3/2/2009 12:01:51 PM

dunnsa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JastaV

Is FE counter working???????
Playing the USA Indipendence War GC scenario for British side I achived a negative FE points value, none the less France and Spain jointed the rebel side.
That's okay for game challenge and for historical accuracy, but I start thinking FE does not work....
Why I should, as a player, expend EP to activate Options influencing the FE in my favour when France and Spain will joint the Rebel side anyway?

Bug already reported.
http://www.ageod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12990&highlight=FE post #28
Fix is on the buglist.
Completed beta tests show that FE is working correctly for both sides, but display is incorrect for British side.

< Message edited by lodilefty -- 3/2/2009 12:04:02 PM >

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RE: Is FE counter working??????? - 3/2/2009 3:25:29 PM

GShock

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Well but i see then that there are many important things being worked on and i'm super happy. Cant' wait to start this pbem and i hope the new 1) prototype denies reinforcements from joining the besieged forces. There might be a real cut on sieging times forcing early surrenders which, on the other hand is a good thing because of the VP involved in the process and the general lack of siege arty on the besieging side which is always under attrition stress.

JastaV try playing with the rightmost shipping box rule and see if you still have more EPs than you need.

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RE: Is FE counter working??????? - 3/2/2009 6:40:03 PM

JastaV

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GShock

JastaV try playing with the rightmost shipping box rule and see if you still have more EPs than you need.

Thanks for the tip, I will do in next scenario I'll play!

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Post #: 12

RE: Timing for next patch? - 3/2/2009 6:45:58 PM

JastaV

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GShock

JastaV and I are interested in playing a PBEM and we already also agreed on posting 2 full and separated AARs to document it. Since we're both ultra experienced with the AGE engine this looks to be a very promising WiA game.......
I was wondering if there are any news about these reported issues. Some sort of timing would be nice so we can get organized on when to actually start this pbem.

Before starting a PBEM over a very long scenario as the one you suggested, I recommend to discuss and possibly clarify some issues.....

Siege routine optimization will be very welcome.
Although it�s coming a bit late: I had so many played scenarios wasted by bugs and unpredictable problems, in past months

Hopefully, clarifications regarding the Philadelphia bug I reported in past weeks will be useful too: here the �incident� was represented by winning troops retiring after the turn resolution rather than occupying the town.
Notice, I recently experienced something like that in a NCP PBEM: here my opponent orders to assault a besieged and breached fortress with an active army were ignored in the turn execution phase and the assaulting army retreated without assaulting my fortress �� not an AI trouble, it was a PBEM match: it�s rather an engine problem.

Recently, I had chance to start discussing with GShock over an abysmal �incident� wasting my plans in WIA! It�s curious I was the first and possibly only one to have experienced that.

I was playing WIA �Few Acres of Snow�, I was controlling Ticonderoga and on the way to launch an offensive to the north to occupy Montreal.
1. I had a 7000 men British army supported by artillery, supply carriage, cavalry in Ticonderoga. At May weather is okay for military operation and I order my Army to march north!
2. I process the turn: I see my army slowly advancing north as days flow. Then, when the turn resolution is close to conclusion the Army is abruptly and unpredictably shifted back on its starting position in Ticonderoga!!!!!!
No explanation in the after action turn report!!!!!!
3. June turn: same advance orders, same movement path planned, same effect!!!!????
4. All that same with July turn!!!!!!
5. August turn: my army is always in Ticonderoga and I�m a bit, very enraged!!!!
I order some irregular units (Indians, Rangers) to move north: they are ambushed by Franco-Canadian irregulars, some hundred men that were not visible on the map. My scouting party is defeated in the ambush and retires�. But know I�m aware of the presence of the enemy irregulars!
6. September: I move by separate stack the main 7000 men regular British army and the scouting party: these last men have reasons over French irregulars. The enemy un-scouted irregulars are wiped out and now my main Army can successfully advance north.
8. October: unfortunately winter is coming, I have to stop operations and move back my invasion army to Ticonderoga to seek cover from harsh weather.

Now some hundred men, invisible on the map succeeded stopping a 7000 men army movement.
We should admit its odd and stupid!
I wasted a year game time for that reason, and my campaign scenario was wasted: it�s abysmal!!!!

According to logic, historical, military and game logic, I can assume some 100 men could ambush my 7000 men regular army while marching north across the wilderness: I can assume to suffer some hundreds casualties in the ambush. I cannot assume 100 men will inhibit 7000 men movement for months. Notice, no actual ambush resulted out of many turns execution: my 7000 men army simply shifted back and the small enemy party was never revealed! Without using my irregular troops to screen and secure the area I�d never noticed the trouble!
Yes, a can see some analogy with the supply unit transport by see from Halifax to continental coast. An invisible enemy unit was always behind the troubles!

Comments and suggestions as regard, even to by pass the problems will be very welcome before starting a PBEM!

(in reply to GShock)

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RE: Timing for next patch? - 3/2/2009 8:55:40 PM

GShock

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Well i understand your "a bit, very enraged" (lol a bit or very? cant be both sorry!).

This has also possibly already been reported. It's another of the reasons why despite willing (gladly actually) to play this pbem i suggested to wait for next patch. Be patient, meanwhile let's see if Lefty has something to say about this issue, i'm confident the solution is at hand and we won't have to wait much.

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RE: Timing for next patch? - 3/2/2009 10:03:22 PM

dunnsa

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Region move blockage has been reported between Winooski and Crown Point, and between Crown Point and St Sacrement

Reason has been identified
It is on the bug list already.

Rage is counterproductive. Try calm, enlightened discussion of facts, without opinions.

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RE: Timing for next patch? - 3/2/2009 10:30:22 PM

JastaV

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lodilefty

Region move blockage has been reported between Winooski and Crown Point, and between Crown Point and St Sacrement

Reason has been identified
It is on the bug list already.

Rage is counterproductive. Try calm, enlightened discussion of facts, without opinions.

Not WIA at hand now, but I'll check the map and wil report the exact regions were I experienced troubles, for AGeod to check it!

Guess forum pages exist to host but all, opinions!
As regard the "enlightened discussion of facts" their place is a professional beta testing and development team: you know, you pay proffesionists, you get aseptic professional work!

Uncontrolled rage is counterproductive, a well directed rage is creative.... see Caravaggio's paints!!!!

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RE: Timing for next patch? - 3/2/2009 10:37:38 PM

JastaV

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GShock

Well i understand your "a bit, very enraged" (lol a bit or very? cant be both sorry!).

Who said cant be both?
You have to admit it sounds so Sheaksperian

!

......and "A mid-time, unbugged, dreaming patch" could sound as a perfect title!

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RE: Timing for next patch? - 3/3/2009 5:38:52 AM

GShock

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Lodi is there anything that can be done in "short terms" about besieged troops resupplying and getting replacements if depot is present despite the stack being besieged?

I mean as of 1) you said ...well you let slip out that prototype works well but we were talking about resupplying, does this also take into account replacements?

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RE: Timing for next patch? - 3/3/2009 11:49:31 PM

JastaV

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lodilefty
Region move blockage has been reported between Winooski and Crown Point, and between Crown Point and St Sacrement

Here are locations were I met troubles:

St Sacrement to Crown Point
Crown Point to Winooski
Winooski to La Motte

Notice, "to" indicates movement direction.
And good most findings are matching!

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Post #: 19

Pequot War scenario - 3/4/2009 11:55:23 AM

JastaV

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Pequot War scenario, Indian side played.
Noticed Mason's Army and Endecott's Army are using same British general portrait.
Hope reporting in time for a fix with next patch.

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RE: Pequot War scenario - 3/4/2009 12:02:39 PM

dunnsa

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Supply graphics and we'll change, otherwise it is what it is.

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RE: Pequot War scenario - 3/4/2009 1:52:39 PM

JastaV

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lodilefty

Supply graphics and we'll change, otherwise it is what it is.

Supply Graphics?
Well if you are asking for a graphical proof of the issue, here it's:

... unfortunately if you are asking for some graphic support, as new leader pictures, I'm sorry cannot help.
I'm not skilled in graphic art... may be you should ask for Nikel support!

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WIA DB: is it okay? - 3/7/2009 10:07:50 AM

JastaV

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Lodi,
I was exploring WIA modding chances.
The starting point is the WIA DB available from AGEod board

I noticed something odd with WIA_DB_Units file. First enlisted line UID is 234: it seems like the file is uncomplete or corrupted.

Thanks in advance for any clarification.

JastaV

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RE: Timing for next patch? - 3/7/2009 12:36:14 PM

berto

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lodilefty

Region move blockage has been reported between Winooski and Crown Point, and between Crown Point and St Sacrement

Reason has been identified
It is on the bug list already.

Would it be possible for you to post here the exact, minute details of this bug and its fix?

I'd like to begin exploring ways to systematically discover such bugs (i.e., developing QA/debugger programs and scripts).

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RE: Timing for next patch? - 3/7/2009 1:00:45 PM

dunnsa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: berto

quote:

ORIGINAL: lodilefty

Region move blockage has been reported between Winooski and Crown Point, and between Crown Point and St Sacrement

Reason has been identified
It is on the bug list already.

Would it be possible for you to post here the exact, minute details of this bug and its fix?

I'd like to begin exploring ways to systematically discover such bugs (i.e., developing QA/debugger programs and scripts).

Bugs like this are found via playtest reports. Specific regions, units, scenari involved are a must as in all bug reports.
Coordinator or 'somebody' confirms the bug, then attempts to find 'what is different' about the elements involved [regions, links, units, models, structures, etc etc]
Confirmation with most likely cause is submitted to dev team if code changes are required.

In this case, the regions involved were found to contain interconnected NavalInterdictLinks, placed long ago to prevent ships moving from port to port in adjacent regions without going to sea.

For systematic problem solving, I highly recommend:
http://www.itsmsolutions.com/newsletters/DITYvol2iss24.htm

My employer [and many others] use this with excellent results.
{I apologize if I am violating any forum advertising rule: I recieve absolutely no compensation from the K-T Corporation}

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RE: Timing for next patch? - 3/7/2009 1:11:00 PM

berto

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lodilefty
In this case, the regions involved were found to contain interconnected NavalInterdictLinks, placed long ago to prevent ships moving from port to port in adjacent regions without going to sea.

Drilling down, please identify the file(s) involved and the exact locations within the file(s).

I'd like to investigate whether it's possible to proactively, systematically identify anomalies like the ones you described.

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RE: Timing for next patch? - 3/10/2009 12:51:56 PM

Stwa

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I haven't been around for a while and I chuckled when I saw yet another thread from Gshock in Tech Support Forum.

Im sure everyone already knows this, but each thread has a common theme, generally stated in the first post. The theme is --- Gshock does not wan't to play WIA anymore until some bug is fixed.

When is Ageod going to get the nads, to just NOT fix the bug. This way Gshock will stop playing WIA, oui? My guess is the world will continue to spin.

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Post #: 27

RE: Timing for next patch? - 3/10/2009 2:26:08 PM

JastaV

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stwa
When is Ageod going to get the nads, to just NOT fix the bug. This way Gshock will stop playing WIA, oui? My guess is the world will continue to spin.

Bet GShock will be till busy playing WIA the time the world will stop spinning.
And me... too!

Perhaps we'll have till chances to report issues and will do....... because we trust improvements will come out of AGEod!
All that with advantages to all WIA players.

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Post #: 28

RE: Timing for next patch? - 3/10/2009 4:52:40 PM

GShock

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quote:

Im sure everyone already knows this, but each thread has a common theme, generally stated in the first post. The theme is --- Gshock does not wan't to play WIA anymore until some bug is fixed.

What you said is not entirely correct, Stwa.
Truth is i want to play and i can't. Next July, the game will have its first Bday. At present time i have been unable to complete the few acres of snow campaign due to bugs and all the minor scenarios tested have evidenced severe bugs, huge unbalance, missing AI opponent and problems of all kinds.

If you bought a game and were unable to play it till only 2 years after its release would you be speaking highly of such gaming experience?

What you can see is that i asked if besieged troops will stop resupplying and the answer was yes. When i asked if they will stop taking replacements, i didn't get an answer. Then the thread was hijacked...as usual.

I'll leave it to you what to think about a game where 8 months after its release you get besieged troops gaining strenght during the siege while the besieger loses it to attrition.

quote:

When is Ageod going to get the nads, to just NOT fix the bug. This way Gshock will stop playing WIA, oui? My guess is the world will continue to spin.

Simply Stwa, they will probably stop fixing bugs when they are out of business. For the records, i remind you i haven't EVER played WiA in my life since i spend more time reporting bugs than actually playing the game itself. If you mind, having paid for it, and having spotted bugs some even refuse to acknowledge, I think i have the right to complain but more importantly, i have the right to play it.

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Post #: 29

RE: Timing for next patch? - 3/11/2009 3:17:52 AM

comte

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GShock

quote:

Im sure everyone already knows this, but each thread has a common theme, generally stated in the first post. The theme is --- Gshock does not wan't to play WIA anymore until some bug is fixed.

What you said is not entirely correct, Stwa.
Truth is i want to play and i can't. Next July, the game will have its first Bday. At present time i have been unable to complete the few acres of snow campaign due to bugs and all the minor scenarios tested have evidenced severe bugs, huge unbalance, missing AI opponent and problems of all kinds.

If you bought a game and were unable to play it till only 2 years after its release would you be speaking highly of such gaming experience?

What you can see is that i asked if besieged troops will stop resupplying and the answer was yes. When i asked if they will stop taking replacements, i didn't get an answer. Then the thread was hijacked...as usual.

I'll leave it to you what to think about a game where 8 months after its release you get besieged troops gaining strenght during the siege while the besieger loses it to attrition.

quote:

When is Ageod going to get the nads, to just NOT fix the bug. This way Gshock will stop playing WIA, oui? My guess is the world will continue to spin.

Simply Stwa, they will probably stop fixing bugs when they are out of business. For the records, i remind you i haven't EVER played WiA in my life since i spend more time reporting bugs than actually playing the game itself. If you mind, having paid for it, and having spotted bugs some even refuse to acknowledge, I think i have the right to complain but more importantly, i have the right to play it.

If the game sucks so much why the hell are you still playing it and posting here G-Shock? Just Move on Man or is there somthing else bothering you?

(in reply to GShock)

Post #: 30

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Timing for next patch?