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Most Unusual Weapon/Weapon System of WW II?

 
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Most Unusual Weapon/Weapon System of WW II? - 5/16/2002 1:16:48 AM   
AbsntMndedProf


Posts: 1780
Joined: 7/6/2001
From: Boston, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		I recall reading in one of the Aberdeen Proving Ground's 'Tank Data' series about an MG designed for German AFVs with a curved barrel to allow it to fire around corners! They even had a picture of one, as I remember.

Eric Maietta
Post #: 1
- 5/16/2002 1:50:49 AM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		Ah, the "Krummerlauf" barrel. :)

They designed it for both 30 and 45 degree angles. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was intended for the StG44? Excellent in close-quarter...but turned out to be a bit unreliable :rolleyes:

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- 5/16/2002 2:28:08 AM   
AbsntMndedProf


Posts: 1780
Joined: 7/6/2001
From: Boston, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		Belisarius posted:

"They designed it for both 30 and 45 degree angles. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was intended for the StG44? Excellent in close-quarter...but turned out to be a bit unreliable."

That could very well be true. It's been many years since I saw this in the 'Tank Data' series, and my memory concerning the details is somewhat foggy. Go figure! :D

Eric Maietta

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Post #: 3
- 5/16/2002 9:07:53 AM   
stevemk1a


Posts: 855
Joined: 3/30/2002
From: Penticton B.C.
Status: offline 		In the Concord pub. book [COLOR=orange]D-Day Tank Warfare[/COLOR] there is a pic of a U.S. M5a1 with a "bullet deflector" mounted below the hull MG. (basically a metal plate welded to three steel posts). This device was apparently to allow the MG to be fired directly beneath the tank into enemy trenches or foxholes (as if the occupants weren't having a bad enough day already!!!). Probably not an official mod- but like the Cullin Hedgerow cutter, someone evidently had a bright idea :D

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Post #: 4
- 5/16/2002 10:11:32 AM   
Possum

 

Posts: 349
Joined: 3/27/2000
From: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Status: offline 		What about
The Soviet "Dog" Anti-tank mine (Trained dog with explosives strapped to it)
The American "House Bat" Homing incndiary Bomb (A trained bat with an incndiary grenade attached, never actually used, as they couldn't overcome the problems of the bats waking up prior to release, and refusing to leave the bombing aircraft.)
The American "Homig Pigeon" Anti Carrier Glide Bomb ( A trained homig pigeon piloting a 2000 Lb glide bomb, again never saw action as the pigeons where found to be unable to tell the difference between a Japanese CV and an American CV, or a Japanese ship from an American ship come to that.)
The Japanese remote Bombing balloon ( a balloon loaded with incndiary bombs with a very long fuse, and released 1000's of miles upwind of continental USA. Was at least credited with starting some forest fires in washington state in 1944)
or on a sader note. The Italian MG that carefully oiled and then re-inserted spent cartriges back into the magazeen as they where fired! Leaving the poor gunner's mate to have to then manually strip all the well oiled and slippery empties out of the magazeen before he could refill it with fresh ammo.

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So the pig began to whistle and to pound on a drum.
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Re: Weird weapons - 5/16/2002 10:29:55 AM   
Stahlhelm

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 1/22/2002
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Personal favorite:

Fliegerfaust: One man shoulder launched anti-aircraft weapon the germans were experimenting with. Fired nine unguided 20mm rockets. Disposable launcher, very cool. Would have come as a rude surprise to allied fighter-bombers had the germans deployed them.

A good source for info on this topic: German Secret Weapons of the second world war by Ian V. Hogg

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Post #: 6
- 5/16/2002 12:13:06 PM   
stevemk1a


Posts: 855
Joined: 3/30/2002
From: Penticton B.C.
Status: offline 		Now I may be wrong here, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Germans were trying to develop a "Hurricane Cannon" which would somehow create atmospheric turbulence to break up the Allied bomber streams (anyone else hear of this, or am I just nuts???). I also believe that the Allies researched creating huge aircraft carriers out of icebergs and sawdust...and I'm not kidding!!!

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Post #: 7
- 5/16/2002 3:23:41 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Possum
[B]What about
The American "House Bat" Homing incndiary Bomb (A trained bat with an incndiary grenade attached, never actually used, as they couldn't overcome the problems of the bats waking up prior to release, and refusing to leave the bombing aircraft.)
[/B][/QUOTE]

What numbnut came up with that idea?! ;)
I'd say the problem with getting the bats to wake up would be their least.

Reference: The African or European Swallow dialouge in Monthy Pyton's Quest for the Holy Grail. :D :D

How much does a bat weigh? North american bats vary in size from 0.11 - 2.5 ounces! (3-70 grams for us metric people) How's a bat supposed to be able to carry a grenade? It's more like a "plummeting incendiary grenade with a bat attached to it". And how do you train bats? :)

A funny idea, but it would seem more practical to just attach wings to the grenade.

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Post #: 8
- 5/16/2002 7:43:58 PM   
Bing

 

Posts: 1366
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Gaylord, MI, USA
Status: offline 		"I also believe that the Allies researched creating huge aircraft carriers out of icebergs and sawdust...and I'm not kidding!!!"

The Soviets regularly operated ski-equipped Mig-29's from ice floes in the Artic, so the idea is not so crazy at all. I don't have the detail on this, however somewhere in my aircraft library there are photos of the Mig-29's on the floes.

Can you imagine taking off and having the heat from the jet engine exhaust - which is no small thing as you will know if you've been around one in operaiton - melt the runway behind you?

Soviet Secret Weapons of the (Real) Cold War: Disposal aircraft carrier.

Bing

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Post #: 9
- 5/16/2002 8:05:50 PM   
Don Doom


Posts: 2446
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From: Lost somewhere in the upper backwoods of Michigan!
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by willy
[B]I also believe that the Allies researched creating huge aircraft carriers out of icebergs and sawdust...and I'm not kidding!!! [/B][/QUOTE]

I believe Winston Chuchill did this one.:rolleyes:

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Post #: 10
Bats Away! - 5/16/2002 8:28:30 PM   
Oxtane

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 3/16/2002
From: United States, Nebraska
Status: offline 		Actually the Incinderary Bat project (Project X-ray) was a successful operation! Initial attempts to release the bats were unsuccessful due to problems with the release. While in the plane the bats were forced into a temporary hibernation by bringing the air temp down to 40 degrees F and then warmed up when the plane neared the drop site. The bat's carrier (similar to an egg carton) was then thrown out of the plane where the carton would break open in the planes propwash. This lead to many of the lil' bombers to be killed at release and led to only minimal flyboys to make it too their target.

They solved the release problem by encasing the bats in a bomb-like cylinder that seperated at a set height releasing the bats safely (except the few that were blown apart by the blast that seperated the cylinder). Initial tests proved successful and showed that they could be used in the battlefield.

There actually was a test that went wrong at an US air base. The bats were released prematurely and they flew into nearby aircraft hangers delivering their napalm payload successfully! They ended up burning down the hangars and destroying one or two aircraft that were parked inside! :D :mad: This, of course, made the brass a little mad but it did prove they (the bats) were able to accomplish their mission.

The bats payload was basically a very small packet of napalm glued to the bats chest that was ignited by a time delay fuse. There were thousands of bats released in a drop so the numerous packets of napalm would do the trick especially in Japan where they were intended to be released.

The project was proved to be a viable option but was cancelled late in the war due to the research on the Atomic bomb.

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Post #: 11
Here lil' mouse - 5/16/2002 8:35:31 PM   
Oxtane

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 3/16/2002
From: United States, Nebraska
Status: offline 		How about the German "Maus"? One gigantic SOB of a tank that was a "semi" moble fortress.

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Post #: 12
Re: Bats Away! - 5/16/2002 8:55:37 PM   
Ardle

 

Posts: 93
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Hiroshima, Japan
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oxtane
[B]Actually the Incinderary Bat project (Project X-ray) was a successful operation! Initial attempts to release the bats were unsuccessful due to problems with the release. While in the plane the bats were forced into a temporary hibernation by bringing the air temp down to 40 degrees F and then warmed up when the plane neared the drop site. The bat's carrier (similar to an egg carton) was then thrown out of the plane where the carton would break open in the planes propwash. This lead to many of the lil' bombers to be killed at release and led to only minimal flyboys to make it too their target.

They solved the release problem by encasing the bats in a bomb-like cylinder that seperated at a set height releasing the bats safely (except the few that were blown apart by the blast that seperated the cylinder). Initial tests proved successful and showed that they could be used in the battlefield.

There actually was a test that went wrong at an US air base. The bats were released prematurely and they flew into nearby aircraft hangers delivering their napalm payload successfully! They ended up burning down the hangars and destroying one or two aircraft that were parked inside! :D :mad: This, of course, made the brass a little mad but it did prove they (the bats) were able to accomplish their mission.

The bats payload was basically a very small packet of napalm glued to the bats chest that was ignited by a time delay fuse. There were thousands of bats released in a drop so the numerous packets of napalm would do the trick especially in Japan where they were intended to be released.

The project was proved to be a viable option but was cancelled late in the war due to the research on the Atomic bomb. [/B][/QUOTE]

:eek:No, no, no - stop right there! I refuse to believe this! I know it's not April 1st, but this is insane. Evidence, sir - give me some evidence...

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"They?" inquired Metzger, twinkling also.
"Us?" asked Oedipa.

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Post #: 13
- 5/16/2002 9:07:25 PM   
Oxtane

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 3/16/2002
From: United States, Nebraska
Status: offline 		Info came straight out of the June/July issue of "World War II" magazine. Don't have the magazine right in front of me but I just read the article last night.

Guy that designed the "Bat Bombs" was a zoologist who was impacted by Pearl Harbor and decided to put his two cents worth designing a "weapon" for the US military against Japan.

If you want issue # and page #s I will gladly get them for you when I get home

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Post #: 14
- 5/16/2002 9:22:12 PM   
Ardle

 

Posts: 93
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Hiroshima, Japan
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oxtane
[B]Info came straight out of the June/July issue of "World War II" magazine. Don't have the magazine right in front of me but I just read the article last night.

Guy that designed the "Bat Bombs" was a zoologist who was impacted by Pearl Harbor and decided to put his two cents worth designing a "weapon" for the US military against Japan.

If you want issue # and page #s I will gladly get them for you when I get home [/B][/QUOTE]

No, don't trouble yourself. But you have to admit it sounds utterly preposterous - I mean what was the rationale behind it? And how many bats would you need to carry enough napalm (or whatever) to make any kind of impact? And how do you train a bat?!!!

_____________________________

"You one of those right wing nut outfits?" inquired the diplomatic Metzger.
Fallopian twinkled. "They accuse us of being paranoids."
"They?" inquired Metzger, twinkling also.
"Us?" asked Oedipa.

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Post #: 15
- 5/16/2002 9:44:07 PM   
Oxtane

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 3/16/2002
From: United States, Nebraska
Status: offline 		Well, he knew that bats would find the darkest spot they could when released in daylight so he figured (correctly) that the they would fly into Japanese homes, businesses, military installations or wherever to find the dark.

Like you said I have no clue what the hell this guy did to even start revolving around an idea like this! Had way too much time on his hands.

I believe they started the initial testing with 1 million bats which they selected from Texas. They used a specific species (short tail something or other) of which they found a colony of over 20 million bats. So I we actually had the first "Kamakazi pilots" :D

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Post #: 16
- 5/16/2002 9:52:35 PM   
Seagull

 

Posts: 80
Joined: 5/7/2002
From: Halifax, NS, Canada
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ardle
[B]

... And how do you train a bat?!!! [/B][/QUOTE]

Oh, the usual ways, I would expect... nice juicy mealworm for flying in the proper direction, electric shocks for flying in the wrong direction, and so on ;)

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Post #: 17
Soviet Dog Anti-Tank Mine - 5/16/2002 10:53:18 PM   
Akmatov

 

Posts: 495
Joined: 7/26/2000
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Ref: The Soviet "Dog" Anti-tank mine (Trained dog with explosives strapped to it)

As I remember the picture, it looks like a doggie rucksack with a pole sticking up to detonate the explosives, and the dog, when it contacted the underside of the tank. The Soviets trained the dogs by feeding them underneath parked tanks.

However, you knew this was coming, they fed the dogs under SOVIET tanks, not German tanks. So when they were deployed, they ignored the German tanks - must smell different - and headed for the nearest Soviet armored formation. Understand the resulting Soviet tank losses kind of ended that project.

Sounds kind of like the bat incident.

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Post #: 18
Re: Most Unusual Weapon/Weapon System of WW II? - 5/16/2002 10:59:56 PM   
Kanon Fodder

 

Posts: 196
Joined: 9/8/2001
From: Portland, Orrygun
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by AbsntMndedProf
[B]I recall reading in one of the Aberdeen Proving Ground's 'Tank Data' series about an MG designed for German AFVs with a curved barrel to allow it to fire around corners! They even had a picture of one, as I remember.

Eric Maietta [/B][/QUOTE]

"German Tank and Anti-Tank" by E.J Hoffschmidt and W.H. Tantum IV

Page 7: "the curved barrel device shown here was designed to cover blind spots on a tank. It could be rotated 360 degrees and actually fired bullets around corners."

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 19
- 5/16/2002 11:02:11 PM   
Kanon Fodder

 

Posts: 196
Joined: 9/8/2001
From: Portland, Orrygun
Status: offline 		Full view

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 20
- 5/17/2002 12:39:44 AM   
AbsntMndedProf


Posts: 1780
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From: Boston, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		A.K.Matov posted:

"However, you knew this was coming, they fed the dogs under SOVIET tanks, not German tanks. So when they were deployed, they ignored the German tanks - must smell different - and headed for the nearest Soviet armored formation. Understand the resulting Soviet tank losses kind of ended that project."

Perhaps they were using German Shepards? :D

Eric Maietta

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Post #: 21
- 5/17/2002 12:41:40 AM   
AbsntMndedProf


Posts: 1780
Joined: 7/6/2001
From: Boston, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		Thanks for the picture files, Kanon Fodder! That's the beast!

Eric Maietta

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Post #: 22
- 5/17/2002 2:57:35 PM   
Karnaaj

 

Posts: 243
Joined: 3/17/2002
From: Spokane WA USA
Status: offline 		Ahhh, it's been a while since last I read the forms, and now there's yet another "weird-***" thread to contribute to.

Bat bombs - there's a book out about the project - BAT BOMB World War II's Other Secret Weapon, ISBN 0-292-70790-8.

"Iceberg" carriers - yup. The mix of sawdust and ice, called (as I recall) "Pykrete". "Geoffrey Pyke, presented the idea of constructing "berg-ships" - up to 4,000 feet long, 600 feet wide and 130 feet in depth – that could be made cheaply, and in great numbers, from ice. The ships would be insulated and cooled, made practically invulnerable to bombs or torpedoes." Tested a model in a Canadian lake in the summer of '43, where (with refrigeration on-board) it didn't appreciably melt.

And finally, "bullet deflectors": I have right behind me a 1975 issue of MILITARY MODELER, with *lots* of pix and data on the M2/M2A1 tank - 37 mm, and *6* .30-cal MGs. (Two forward, ala aircraft MGs, and 4 barbette/sponson-mounts covering the corners.) On the rear fenders are square chunks of sheet metal (armour, one would hope ) that would deflect the rear guns' fire downwards as/after it crossed the trenches. (Relating to a path thread, the pictures were shot during those Louisiana manevers of '41...)

Now, if only I still had the issue that had the scratchbuilt T95, with many pix and details of the dual-track mechanism, including the *detatchable* outer tracks that were locked together and towed for road-width purposes...

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Post #: 23
How 'bout... - 5/17/2002 6:06:03 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		Concrete aircraft? :D

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Post #: 24
- 5/17/2002 6:50:48 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Possum
[B]What about
The Soviet "Dog" Anti-tank mine (Trained dog with explosives strapped to it)
The American "House Bat" Homing incndiary Bomb (A trained bat with an incndiary grenade attached, never actually used, as they couldn't overcome the problems of the bats waking up prior to release, and refusing to leave the bombing aircraft.)
The American "Homig Pigeon" Anti Carrier Glide Bomb ( A trained homig pigeon piloting a 2000 Lb glide bomb, again never saw action as the pigeons where found to be unable to tell the difference between a Japanese CV and an American CV, or a Japanese ship from an American ship come to that.)
The Japanese remote Bombing balloon ( a balloon loaded with incndiary bombs with a very long fuse, and released 1000's of miles upwind of continental USA. Was at least credited with starting some forest fires in washington state in 1944)
or on a sader note. The Italian MG that carefully oiled and then re-inserted spent cartriges back into the magazeen as they where fired! Leaving the poor gunner's mate to have to then manually strip all the well oiled and slippery empties out of the magazeen before he could refill it with fresh ammo. [/B][/QUOTE]

The dogs had the same problem as the pigeons, the Bats actually worked burned down a town in the US (I know, it was a US weapon). There was also a bullet deflector for the M3 'Grease Gun' a curved extention (90 degrees) fitted to the barrel.

I think the English hold the record for the most 'creative' solutions, the Flying Tank (could not get it to land upright all the time) for 'leaping' over tank traps.

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Post #: 25
- 5/17/2002 6:53:54 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bing
[B
Can you imagine taking off and having the heat from the jet engine exhaust - which is no small thing as you will know if you've been around one in operaiton - melt the runway behind you?

Bing [/B][/QUOTE]
Comrad you WILL take off you will not turn around and return to the hanger.:D :D

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Post #: 26
- 5/17/2002 6:56:25 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oxtane
[B]Info came straight out of the June/July issue of "World War II" magazine. Don't have the magazine right in front of me but I just read the article last night.

Guy that designed the "Bat Bombs" was a zoologist who was impacted by Pearl Harbor and decided to put his two cents worth designing a "weapon" for the US military against Japan.

If you want issue # and page #s I will gladly get them for you when I get home [/B][/QUOTE]
There is also a book out on the subject, don't remember the name.

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Post #: 27
- 5/17/2002 7:53:37 PM   
Oxtane

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 3/16/2002
From: United States, Nebraska
Status: offline 		I need to correct my previous information about the Bat Bomb. The guy who came up with the idea was not a zoologist but ...get this... a dentist! Talk about putting anther kink in an already weird idea! LOL :D

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Post #: 28
- 5/17/2002 8:47:37 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		V-2 designers, eat your heart out! Prepare to face the dreaded....

BAT BOMB! :D

btw, does FO's use a Batphone™ to call them in?
Do they travel in Batmobiles™?
Are the drivers called "Robin"?
Are the boms carried in a Batwing™?

:D :D :D

[SIZE=1]Batman™ is a trademark of DC Comics™ yada yada yada[/SIZE]

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Post #: 29
- 5/17/2002 9:09:03 PM   
Oxtane

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 3/16/2002
From: United States, Nebraska
Status: offline 		Pilot - "Batadier this is the pilot. We are approaching our target suggest you prepare your bats"
Batadier - "Target in site"
Pilot - "Batadier you have the plane"
Batadier - "BATS AWWWAYYYYYYY!!!"
.......flap flap flap.......flutter flutter flutter........

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Post #: 30
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