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On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/16/2009 9:48:29 PM

Ullern

Posts: 1837
Joined: 5/28/2006
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This is on topic since I am Beta tester asking assistance.

I want to describe all US-entry actions that happened historically before the USA was at war. I already did I thought. Then I compared towards the different scenarios in the WIF scenario booklet released by ADG, and found that the average number of chits caused by my list of actions and the number of chits in the scenarios didn't compare.

The Waking Giant Scenario (start 01.Nov 1941) gives USA a total of 26 chits. But the list I describe gives the USA 20.9 chits on average. I ask myself: "Why the difference?

So the quiz question is: Find the error in my list or explain why the ADG would give the USA too many chits.

My list of US-entry actions

Sep/Oct 39: Germany DOW Poland, CW and France DOW Germany, USSR controls East Poland
Nov/Dec 39: USSR DOW Finland, Japan (temporarily) occupies Nanning (Chinese city)
Jan/Feb 40: Nothing
Mar/Apr 40: Germany DOW Denmark and Norway
May/Jun 40: Germany DOW Netherlands, Belgium, Italy DOW DOW both CW and France, USSR controls Nazi-Soviet Pact areas*, Axis Vichies France, Japan forces closure of Burma Road
Jul/Aug 40: Nothing
Sep/Oct 40: Japan occupies Indo China, Italy DOW Greece
Nov/Dec 40: Nothing
Jan/Feb 41: Japan occupies Chengchow (Chinese city)
Mar/Apr 41: Japan and USSR signs a neutrality pact, Germany DOW Yugoslavia, Germany aligns Iraq, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria**.
May/Jun 41: CW DOW Vichy***, France DOW Vichy, Germany and Italy both DOW USSR, Germany aligns Finland
Jul/Aug 41: USSR DOW Persia, CW DOW Persia
Sep/Oct 41: Nothing

* Taking control of Nazi Soviet pact areas happened in multiples steps with the last step happening May/Jun 40.
** Germany starts a campaign in the Greek war that Italy started. But since Greece is aligned to CW a long time ago this is not a separate war declaration in WIF-terms, but this campaign includes attacks from German forces in Bulgaria, which in WIF terms means Bulgaria had to be aligned already.
*** I don�t know of any declaration of war between Vichy or the allied states were ever issued, and Canada actually had full diplomatic relations with Vichy as long as it existed, but in May/Jun 41 CW and Free France makes a joint operation to take control over Vichy controlled Syria, which in WIF terms means that UK and Free France must have decleared war at this point or some point earlier.

***
I think you need to know what US-entry actions there are to answer this, but if you don't know I think the WIF charts can be found if you google them or something. (Typically all sorts of declarations of war plus a few more items, like you can see of my list.)

A note for you non WIFers: If I misplaced the turn of a US-entry action I am happy for info, it might matter for the chit value _ but it will not matter for the number of chits. So the error in number of chits have to be something else ...

< Message edited by ullern -- 4/16/2009 9:50:12 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/16/2009 9:56:16 PM

Ullern

Posts: 1837
Joined: 5/28/2006
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One specific question I was pondering but not able to figure out was:

Did Japan send any military forces to the Marshall Islands before the Pearl Harbor attack? (This is a US-entry action that I did not include.)

(in reply to Ullern)

Post #: 2

RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/16/2009 10:04:14 PM

Froonp

Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ullern
The Waking Giant Scenario (start 01.Nov 1941) gives USA a total of 26 chits. But the list I describe gives the USA 20.9 chits on average. I ask myself: "Why the difference?

So the quiz question is: Find the error in my list or explain why the ADG would give the USA too many chits.

Well, 2 things that I can think of from the top of my head.

First, to answer the question asked (why 26 when, the average is 20.9) I'd say : the USA were lucky during WW2, and picked 26 chits.

Second, to help understand how plausible my first answer was, I'd shoot back a question to you : If the Average is 20.9, what is the standard deviation ? The little I remember from statistics from school is that an average means nothing if not accompanied by a standard deviation.

(in reply to Ullern)

Post #: 3

RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/16/2009 10:05:43 PM

Froonp

Posts: 7995
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From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ullern

One specific question I was pondering but not able to figure out was:

Did Japan send any military forces to the Marshall Islands before the Pearl Harbor attack? (This is a US-entry action that I did not include.)

Sending air units in the Marshalls is valid for the US Entry action, and I believe that the bombers that bombed Wake Island in december 41 came from the Marshall. Will check.

(in reply to Ullern)

Post #: 4

RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/16/2009 10:13:43 PM

Froonp

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From: Marseilles, France
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From : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_island

"On December 8, 1941, the same day as the Attack on Pearl Harbor (Wake being on the opposite side of the International Date Line), at least 27 Japanese medium "Nell" bombers flown from bases on Kwajelein in the Marshall Island group attacked Wake Island, destroying eight of the 12 F4F Wildcat fighter aircraft belonging to Marine Corps fighter squadron VMF-211 on the ground. "

27 G3M is not a WiF air unit, but if you consider that, there were no WiF air unit in no island of the Pacific during WW2, so for me, Kwajalein was Japanese military occupied before 8 December 1941.

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 5

RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/16/2009 10:51:32 PM

Ullern

Posts: 1837
Joined: 5/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: ullern
The Waking Giant Scenario (start 01.Nov 1941) gives USA a total of 26 chits. But the list I describe gives the USA 20.9 chits on average. I ask myself: "Why the difference?

So the quiz question is: Find the error in my list or explain why the ADG would give the USA too many chits.

Well, 2 things that I can think of from the top of my head.

First, to answer the question asked (why 26 when, the average is 20.9) I'd say : the USA were lucky during WW2, and picked 26 chits.

Second, to help understand how plausible my first answer was, I'd shoot back a question to you : If the Average is 20.9, what is the standard deviation ? The little I remember from statistics from school is that an average means nothing if not accompanied by a standard deviation.

You made me calculated this

: Standard deviation is 2.4 chits

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 6

RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/16/2009 10:53:16 PM

Ullern

Posts: 1837
Joined: 5/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

From : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_island

"On December 8, 1941, the same day as the Attack on Pearl Harbor (Wake being on the opposite side of the International Date Line), at least 27 Japanese medium "Nell" bombers flown from bases on Kwajelein in the Marshall Island group attacked Wake Island, destroying eight of the 12 F4F Wildcat fighter aircraft belonging to Marine Corps fighter squadron VMF-211 on the ground. "

27 G3M is not a WiF air unit, but if you consider that, there were no WiF air unit in no island of the Pacific during WW2, so for me, Kwajalein was Japanese military occupied before 8 December 1941.

Thanks. This explains 0.6 of the 5.1 difference. So just 4.5 in difference to go.

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 7

RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/16/2009 11:59:56 PM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ullern

This is on topic since I am Beta tester asking assistance.

I want to describe all US-entry actions that happened historically before the USA was at war. I already did I thought. Then I compared towards the different scenarios in the WIF scenario booklet released by ADG, and found that the average number of chits caused by my list of actions and the number of chits in the scenarios didn't compare.

The Waking Giant Scenario (start 01.Nov 1941) gives USA a total of 26 chits. But the list I describe gives the USA 20.9 chits on average. I ask myself: "Why the difference?

So the quiz question is: Find the error in my list or explain why the ADG would give the USA too many chits.

My list of US-entry actions

Sep/Oct 39: Germany DOW Poland, CW and France DOW Germany, USSR controls East Poland

The Soviet Union doesn't control Eastern Poland. They invaded it AFTER the Germans DOW and the German attack.

quote:

Nov/Dec 39: USSR DOW Finland, Japan (temporarily) occupies Nanning (Chinese city)

1 November 1939 - Germany formally annexes Poland.
3 November 1939 - Eastern Poland incorporated in the Soviet Union.
4 November 1939 - The US repealed the Neutrality Law. Allowing both France and Britain to purchase goods from the US.
8 November 1939 - Hitler escapes an assassination attempt.
13 November 1939 - Talks between Finland and the Soviet Union break down. Stalin orders plans for an immediate attack on Finland.
28 November 1939 - Soviet Union renounces the Soviet-Finnish non-aggression treaty.
29 November 1939 - Soviet Union breaks diplomatic ties with Finland.
* Spain ratifies it pact of friendship with Germany. Spain promises the Germans "more than favorable" Spanish neutrality.
30 November 1939 - Russia invades Finland.
3 December 1939 - Finland seeks support from the League of Nations.
5 December 1939 - Soviet Union rejects the League of Nations proposals.
7 December 1939 - Soviet forces advance into Finland.
10 December 1939 - US grants Finland $10 million worth of aid.
14 December 1939 - Hitler requests plans on how to take possession of Norway.
*The League of Nations expels the Soviet Union after branding the Soviet Union an aggressor.
21 December 1939 - Romania signed an economic pact with Germany.
22 December 1939 - Finland launches an unexpected counterattack against the Soviet invaders.
23 December 1939 - Protests were filed by 21 Latin American countries with England, France and Germany concerning the Graf Spee incident. They claimed the incident violated neutrality of American waters.
27 December 1939 - France and England began seeking permission from Sweden of "unofficial" aid through Sweden to Finland.
*Indian troops began arriving in France to join the BEF.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Ullern)

Post #: 8

RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/17/2009 12:11:46 AM

sajbalk

Posts: 264
Joined: 7/11/2005
From: Davenport, Iowa
Status: offline

A couple quibbles ... Iraq should really be more of an invasion as Germany/Italy lacked the necessary adjacent forces to align it.

Thus -3 goes to +5.

Also, you would be hard pressed to count the Pact as an entry event unless you also had a DOW one way or the other with Japan/USSR, at least in game terms.

_____________________________

Steve Balk
Iowa, USA

(in reply to Ullern)

Post #: 9

RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/17/2009 12:36:02 AM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ullern

My list of US-entry actions

Jan/Feb 40: Nothing

2 January 1940 - Soviet forces launch major offensive against Karelian Isthmus.
3 January 1940 - Roosevelt requests $1.8 billion for national defense.
5 January 1940 - Finland has a major victory on the Karelian Isthmus destroying the Soviet 44th Rifle Division.
*Britain begins rationing food.
13 January 1940 - Belgium, fearing an invasion orders a full scale mobilization.
15 January 1940 - Belgium, refuses British and French requests for transit rights across Belgian territory.
* England condemns Soviet invasion of Finland.
*US protests delays placed on US ships by British authorities at Gibraltar.
22 January 1940 - Pope Pius XII condemned German governing of Poland.
*Britain and France said they would not honor the Pan American neutrality zone and would attack German ships if found in those waters.
24 January 1940 - Britain reassures Belgium that if invaded Britain will come to their aid.
26 January 1940 - The US let it's 1941 commercial treaty with Japan lapse. The Japanese were informed that from that point on trade between the two countries would be on a day to day basis.
29 January 1940 - The Soviet Union informed Sweden that it was ready to make a deal to end the war with Finland.
1 February 1940 - Soviet Union launches another attack on the Karelian Isthmus to break the Finnish defense.
4 February 1940 - Greece, Romania, Turkey and Yugoslavia declare their neutrality as the Balkan Entente.
5 February 1940 - Britain and France agree to send military aid to Finland.
9 February 1940 - Roosevelt sent Under Secretary of State Sumner Wells to Britain, France, Italy and Germany to see if there was any willingness to discuss prospects for peace in Europe. He reported back that there was no interest in any of the capitals he visited. Notably the Soviet Union was not on his list. The Soviet Union was at the time standing alone in world opinion for it's invasions of both Poland and Finland. This deepened the feeling of isolation by the Soviets and also their distrust of both the British and the Americans later.
10 February 1940 - Germany and the Soviet Union agree to an expanded trade treaty.
11 February 1940 - Heavy fighting in Finland.
12 February 1940 - Finnish cabinet authorizes actions to be taken to end the war.
* February 1940 - The first contingent of ANZC troops arrives in Egypt.
16 February 1940 - The supply ship Altmark was boarded in Jossing Fjord and freed 299 British sailors over the protest of both Germany and Norway that the ship was in neutral waters. Germany viewed this act as proof that Britain would not support Norway's neutrality and would invade the country.
17 February 1940 - Finnish forces start to pull back on the Karelian Isthmus.
20 February 1940 - The Soviet Union offers new peace terms to Finland.
22 February 1940 - Soviet forces capture islands in the Gulf of Finland.
23 February 1940 - Finland requests that Sweden and Norway grant transit rights for foreign troops to move to Finland through their territories.
24 February 1940 - Germany and Italy sign a trade agreement.
*German plans for attack on France and Low Countries completed.
27 February 1940 - Sweden and Norway refuse transit rights for foreign troops to move to Finland.
28 February 1940 - Finnish troops start to pull back from their positions around Viipuri.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

(in reply to Ullern)

Post #: 10

RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/17/2009 1:14:10 AM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ullern

My list of US-entry actions

Mar/Apr 40: Germany DOW Denmark and Norway

1 March 1940 - Hitler issued a formal declaration to the German military for the invasion of Norway and Denmark.
2 March 1940 -Britain and France officially request that Sweden and Norway grant transit rights to allow foreign troops to move to Finland through their territories. The request was rejected because of Allied interests in controlling the Swedish iron ore fields to deny the resources to Germany.
6 March 1940 - France and Italy make a trade agreement.
*Finnish peace negotiators go to Moscow.
9 March 1940 - Britain and France inform Finland that troops would be sent to their aid if they requested it.
* March 1940 - Admiral Raeder recommends to Hilter the invasion of Norway at the earliest possible time.
12 March 1940 - Russo-Finnish war ended.
18 March 1940 - Italy agrees to enter the war. Italy was given the choice of attacking either France or Yugoslavia but chose France because of a greater portion of spoils.
22 March 1940 - Soviet forces occupy Hango.
28 March 1940 - Britain and France agreed to be unified in their treatment of Germany. There would be no separate peace made.
29 March 1940 - Soviet Foreign Minister Molotov declares the Soviet Union will remain neutral in the European conflict.
30 March 1940 - The Japanese set up a government for China.
* The US refused to recognize the puppet Chinese government.
31 March 1940 - Mussolini tells the Italian King that it is inevitable that Italy would be in the war.
8 April 1940 - Britain and France mine Norwegian waters. Norway protests. The Allies are concerned with a German navy presence in Scandinavia.
9 April 1940 - Germany invades Norway and Denmark. The battle for Denmark lasted only four hours.
10 April 1940 - Iceland declares it's independence from Denmark.
*Belgium went to military alert but continued to declare it's neutrality.
11 April 1940 - Norwegians called upon by the King to defend the country against the German invaders.
* The Netherlands moves towards a war footing by completing a defense network.
15 April 1940 - In Norway the Germans remove Quisling from office.
16 April 1940 - Iceland requests recognition and formal relations with the US.
* British forces occupy the Faeroe Islands.
*British land forces are put ashore in Norway.
19 April 1940 - The Netherlands declared a state of siege and refused all aid, either whether offered or coerced.
*French mountain troops land in Norway.
20 April 1940 - Denmark's army was demobilized by the Germans.
*Germany and Romania sign a trade agreement which authorizes Romania to receive Czech-made planes and arms.
24 April 1940 - Germany assumes control of Norway.
26 April 1940 - Allied forces in Norway begin to retreat under German pressure.
27 April 1940 - Himmler ordered the construction of the concentration camp at Auschwitz Poland.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

(in reply to Ullern)

Post #: 11

RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/19/2009 8:12:29 PM

praem

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Joined: 12/15/2007
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It would be fair to say CW surported at least Greece and possibly Norway (Belgium and Holland fell too fast)

(in reply to Mad Russian)

Post #: 12

RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/19/2009 8:22:36 PM

Froonp

Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
1 March 1940 - Hitler issued a formal declaration to the German military for the invasion of Norway and Denmark.
2 March 1940 -Britain and France officially request that Sweden and Norway grant transit rights to allow foreign troops to move to Finland through their territories. The request was rejected because of Allied interests in controlling the Swedish iron ore fields to deny the resources to Germany.
6 March 1940 - France and Italy make a trade agreement.
*Finnish peace negotiators go to Moscow.
9 March 1940 - Britain and France inform Finland that troops would be sent to their aid if they requested it.
* March 1940 - Admiral Raeder recommends to Hilter the invasion of Norway at the earliest possible time.
12 March 1940 - Russo-Finnish war ended.
18 March 1940 - Italy agrees to enter the war. Italy was given the choice of attacking either France or Yugoslavia but chose France because of a greater portion of spoils.
22 March 1940 - Soviet forces occupy Hango.
28 March 1940 - Britain and France agreed to be unified in their treatment of Germany. There would be no separate peace made.
29 March 1940 - Soviet Foreign Minister Molotov declares the Soviet Union will remain neutral in the European conflict.
30 March 1940 - The Japanese set up a government for China.
* The US refused to recognize the puppet Chinese government.
31 March 1940 - Mussolini tells the Italian King that it is inevitable that Italy would be in the war.
8 April 1940 - Britain and France mine Norwegian waters. Norway protests. The Allies are concerned with a German navy presence in Scandinavia.
9 April 1940 - Germany invades Norway and Denmark. The battle for Denmark lasted only four hours.
10 April 1940 - Iceland declares it's independence from Denmark.
*Belgium went to military alert but continued to declare it's neutrality.
11 April 1940 - Norwegians called upon by the King to defend the country against the German invaders.
* The Netherlands moves towards a war footing by completing a defense network.
15 April 1940 - In Norway the Germans remove Quisling from office.
16 April 1940 - Iceland requests recognition and formal relations with the US.
* British forces occupy the Faeroe Islands.
*British land forces are put ashore in Norway.
19 April 1940 - The Netherlands declared a state of siege and refused all aid, either whether offered or coerced.
*French mountain troops land in Norway.
20 April 1940 - Denmark's army was demobilized by the Germans.
*Germany and Romania sign a trade agreement which authorizes Romania to receive Czech-made planes and arms.
24 April 1940 - Germany assumes control of Norway.
26 April 1940 - Allied forces in Norway begin to retreat under German pressure.
27 April 1940 - Himmler ordered the construction of the concentration camp at Auschwitz Poland.

Where is the complete chronology housed ? Is this a website ?
It is quite detailed and interesting.

(in reply to Mad Russian)

Post #: 13

RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/19/2009 10:03:36 PM

Orm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: praem

It would be fair to say CW surported at least Greece and possibly Norway (Belgium and Holland fell too fast)

There wasn't enough allied troops there. You need 4 corps to get it. In Greece there was 3 divisions and some other smaller units. I would say that it was less than 2 corps. If my memory serves I do belive the allied commitment to Norway was even less.

(in reply to praem)

Post #: 14

RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/20/2009 2:07:42 AM

Ullern

Posts: 1837
Joined: 5/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

A couple quibbles ... Iraq should really be more of an invasion as Germany/Italy lacked the necessary adjacent forces to align it.

Thus -3 goes to +5.

Also, you would be hard pressed to count the Pact as an entry event unless you also had a DOW one way or the other with Japan/USSR, at least in game terms.

We may "interpret" the Iraq operations as you described, but it would be a adjustment from +3 to +5 only.

About Japan/USSR you are right, but it's what happened historically. Removing the US-entry action from the list would move us .3 in the wrong direction.

(in reply to sajbalk)

Post #: 15

RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/20/2009 2:10:44 AM

Ullern

Posts: 1837
Joined: 5/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: praem

It would be fair to say CW surported at least Greece and possibly Norway (Belgium and Holland fell too fast)

There wasn't enough allied troops there. You need 4 corps to get it. In Greece there was 3 divisions and some other smaller units. I would say that it was less than 2 corps. If my memory serves I do belive the allied commitment to Norway was even less.

Yes but are we missing support minor any place?

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 16

RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/20/2009 6:49:45 AM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
1 March 1940 - Hitler issued a formal declaration to the German military for the invasion of Norway and Denmark.
2 March 1940 -Britain and France officially request that Sweden and Norway grant transit rights to allow foreign troops to move to Finland through their territories. The request was rejected because of Allied interests in controlling the Swedish iron ore fields to deny the resources to Germany.
6 March 1940 - France and Italy make a trade agreement.
*Finnish peace negotiators go to Moscow.
9 March 1940 - Britain and France inform Finland that troops would be sent to their aid if they requested it.
* March 1940 - Admiral Raeder recommends to Hilter the invasion of Norway at the earliest possible time.
12 March 1940 - Russo-Finnish war ended.
18 March 1940 - Italy agrees to enter the war. Italy was given the choice of attacking either France or Yugoslavia but chose France because of a greater portion of spoils.
22 March 1940 - Soviet forces occupy Hango.
28 March 1940 - Britain and France agreed to be unified in their treatment of Germany. There would be no separate peace made.
29 March 1940 - Soviet Foreign Minister Molotov declares the Soviet Union will remain neutral in the European conflict.
30 March 1940 - The Japanese set up a government for China.
* The US refused to recognize the puppet Chinese government.
31 March 1940 - Mussolini tells the Italian King that it is inevitable that Italy would be in the war.
8 April 1940 - Britain and France mine Norwegian waters. Norway protests. The Allies are concerned with a German navy presence in Scandinavia.
9 April 1940 - Germany invades Norway and Denmark. The battle for Denmark lasted only four hours.
10 April 1940 - Iceland declares it's independence from Denmark.
*Belgium went to military alert but continued to declare it's neutrality.
11 April 1940 - Norwegians called upon by the King to defend the country against the German invaders.
* The Netherlands moves towards a war footing by completing a defense network.
15 April 1940 - In Norway the Germans remove Quisling from office.
16 April 1940 - Iceland requests recognition and formal relations with the US.
* British forces occupy the Faeroe Islands.
*British land forces are put ashore in Norway.
19 April 1940 - The Netherlands declared a state of siege and refused all aid, either whether offered or coerced.
*French mountain troops land in Norway.
20 April 1940 - Denmark's army was demobilized by the Germans.
*Germany and Romania sign a trade agreement which authorizes Romania to receive Czech-made planes and arms.
24 April 1940 - Germany assumes control of Norway.
26 April 1940 - Allied forces in Norway begin to retreat under German pressure.
27 April 1940 - Himmler ordered the construction of the concentration camp at Auschwitz Poland.

Where is the complete chronology housed ? Is this a website ?
It is quite detailed and interesting.

It's from the "World War II Almanac 1931-1945". It's much more detailed than what I put on here. It details combat actions and ships that are attacked/sunk as well. For the most part I didn't include all that in the listings I put on here.

Before I put the rest of the political events in the thread I was going to see if there was a need/desire for them to be posted.

It is a daily record of what happened during the war. It might answer some of the questions about some of the missing gaps.

I'm interested to see how the 16 new Chinese cities affect US Entry. They should bring the US into the war really quickly if you keep the old criteria of rolling everytime a Chinese city falls.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 4/20/2009 6:52:56 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 17

RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/20/2009 7:32:46 AM

brian brian

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
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I really doubt ADG tried to match the scenario chits to history. As long as 26 chits are _possible_, that was good enough. 26 is probably the number the scenario designers wanted you to think about as the Axis. I can't think of any entry mods you have forgotten. The scenario book lists Militarize the Marshalls as already having taken place.

If you look at Japanese strategic options going into the Nov/Dec '41 turn, there is more to decide than the odds that the US can successfully do a DOW. The main strategic direction and the to-go or not-to-go question for the Japanese can also be greatly influenced by the weather table nearly as much or more. It would be slightly different for a player about to start a scenario, but many Japanese players in the Global War, after 13 turns of dealing with the N. Temperate and N. Monsoon weather zones in China, suddenly learn about the fickle weather in the South Monsoon zone the hard way. Playing the scenario, I see little reason to wait. Playing the entire war makes that quite a bit different. It is so alluring to the Axis to hasten US entry in 40-42....yet they regret every turn of it when the Offensive Chits are raining down on them in 44-45.

(in reply to Mad Russian)

Post #: 18

RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/20/2009 1:41:22 PM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I really doubt ADG tried to match the scenario chits to history. As long as 26 chits are _possible_, that was good enough. 26 is probably the number the scenario designers wanted you to think about as the Axis. I can't think of any entry mods you have forgotten. The scenario book lists Militarize the Marshalls as already having taken place.

I have no idea what the original design goal was.

quote:

If you look at Japanese strategic options going into the Nov/Dec '41 turn, there is more to decide than the odds that the US can successfully do a DOW. The main strategic direction and the to-go or not-to-go question for the Japanese can also be greatly influenced by the weather table nearly as much or more. It would be slightly different for a player about to start a scenario, but many Japanese players in the Global War, after 13 turns of dealing with the N. Temperate and N. Monsoon weather zones in China, suddenly learn about the fickle weather in the South Monsoon zone the hard way.

I agree. You get a crash course in meteorology in WiF like in no other game I've ever seen.

quote:

Playing the scenario, I see little reason to wait. Playing the entire war makes that quite a bit different.

Really....you see little reason not to take actions that influence the US entry into the war?

quote:

It is so alluring to the Axis to hasten US entry in 40-42....yet they regret every turn of it when the Offensive Chits are raining down on them in 44-45.

I have to tell you in all the conversations concering WiF I've ever had or heard of that statement is the one that is the most surprising.

THE AXIS FINDS IT ALLURING TO HASTEN US ENTRY????

Not in any game I've ever played. The Axis only hastens US Entry by a DOW when they have no other choices and the US is getting ready to come into the war anyway. Otherwise, it's been my experience the Axis does almost anything in it's power to keep the US out of the war down to the very last possible moment.

Admiral Yamamoto's comment about Japan waking a sleeping giant, when they attacked the US, was only partially correct. What Japan woke was a raging giant.

And yes, offensive chits or whatever, come raining down on you in the color of green.

No, our strategy seems much different than yours. Any American player that plays against us we hope to lull to sleep with nothing for them to do until we settle the war on our own. No need for the Americans to ever get involved.

Good Hunting.

MR

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Post #: 19

RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/20/2009 2:31:41 PM

composer99

Posts: 2923
Joined: 6/6/2005
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What I think Brian means is that it is very tempting for the Axis to play very aggressively early on, which hastens US entry (surprise!). But unless the overly aggressive play by the Axis results in definitive results (conquest of UK, collapse of Red Army, stuff like that), then they will pay for it dearly when the Angry Green Giant gets into the sandbox to teach them a lesson.

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~ Composer99

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RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/20/2009 9:08:22 PM

sajbalk

Posts: 264
Joined: 7/11/2005
From: Davenport, Iowa
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If you want to be aggressive as the Axis, you will hasten the US Entry. Now, each individual action may or may not, but the collection of actions will certainly.

How do I play the Axis? Find a plan and stick to it more or less.

You will know that the US is coming, but I would rather be defending from advanced lines in 1942 than not.

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Steve Balk
Iowa, USA

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RE: On topic - WWII quiz / WIF quiz - 4/20/2009 11:49:14 PM

Mad Russian

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Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

If you want to be aggressive as the Axis, you will hasten the US Entry. Now, each individual action may or may not, but the collection of actions will certainly.

How do I play the Axis? Find a plan and stick to it more or less.

You will know that the US is coming, but I would rather be defending from advanced lines in 1942 than not.

You have to pick your poison. Which brand do you want to die from? The slow steady kind of the quick fast kind?

US Entry is exactly the same thing. Do they come in fast and early or slow and late? Slow and late means you haven't done much militarily on the map. Quick and fast means you have done alot on the map.

Normally our group takes what you give us. We've got more than one strategy worked out. ANY STRATEGY WILL WORK SOME TIME. So, you have to match the strategy you are using to the situation you are offered.

Not always an easy thing to accomplish.

Good Hunting.

MR

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