Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 1:25:35 AM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

The future of games development has been called into question after the EU Commission suggested developers provide a two year guarantee.

[snip]

At present, licensed software is exempt from EU legislation that forces firms to offer "a minimum 2-year guarantee on tangible movable consumer goods".

[snip]

At present, retailers are not obliged to give a refund on a video game that has a bug or glitch that prevents a user completing a game. If the proposals become law, this could change as users would have the right "to get a product that works with fair commercial conditions".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8044125.stm

_____________________________
Post #: 1
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 11:40:25 AM   
Awac835


Posts: 279
Joined: 7/16/2004
Status: offline 		That will never happen, or atleast it will be impossible to enforce it.


(in reply to hermanhum)
Post #: 2
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 12:09:31 PM   
Grell

 

Posts: 1064
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I hope it does happen.

Regards,

Grell

_____________________________


(in reply to hermanhum)
Post #: 3
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 12:51:33 PM   
Zakhal


Posts: 2494
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Jyväskylä, Finland
Status: offline 		Tabula rasa and hellgate comes to mind.

_____________________________

"99.9% of all internet arguments are due to people not understanding someone else's point. The other 0.1% is arguing over made up statistics."- unknown poster
"Those who dont read history are destined to repeat it."– Edmund Burke

(in reply to Grell)
Post #: 4
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 1:42:25 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		If only we could get a two year guarantee on government working as expected...

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Zakhal)
Post #: 5
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 1:45:46 PM   
Phatguy

 

Posts: 1348
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

If only we could get a two year guarantee on government working as expected...


Well thats just silly...........

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 6
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 2:01:15 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		It looks like the days of releasing half-finished games for full price are coming to end.

_____________________________

People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

(in reply to Phatguy)
Post #: 7
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 3:04:21 PM   
Sarge


Posts: 2841
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: ask doggie
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

It looks like the days of releasing half-finished games for full price are coming to end.


If anything this 'guarantee' will have an adverse effect on pricing in the EU not the opposit.

One of two things will happen

1) Most if not ALL small companys will just stop selling to the EU

2) The price will reflect the opportunists looking for FREE entertainment.

Etherway you think game pricing is high now wait till there's preview entitlement.........

< Message edited by Sarge -- 5/16/2009 3:17:51 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 8
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 3:13:41 PM   
Obsolete


Posts: 1492
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline 		I see this being abused by one-time players.

However, I do wish this was available years ago before we had the internet to find what game is so horribly bugged up to hell. 

Anyone remember Action-52 and other scams back in the day?




_____________________________



King-Tigers don't let Tiger-I's get over-run.

(in reply to Sarge)
Post #: 9
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 4:26:20 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

If only we could get a two year guarantee on government working as expected...


keep it up, and I am going to have to lock this post up, you know the rules !!!!



_____________________________


(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 10
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 4:42:48 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

keep it up, and I am going to have to lock this post up, you know the rules !!!!



The phrase 'hoist with your own petard' does indeed spring to mind!

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 11
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 5:11:52 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

If only we could get a two year guarantee on government working as expected...



It would cost too much.....

_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 12
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 5:15:43 PM   
Phatguy

 

Posts: 1348
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline 		I really think they are just trying to kick the evil empire down, We know which gaming one that is , right? 

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 13
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 5:42:48 PM   
E

 

Posts: 1247
Joined: 9/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

I really think they are just trying to kick the evil empire down, We know which gaming one that is , right?

Pong?

(in reply to Phatguy)
Post #: 14
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 6:29:04 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Two years is immoderate but I'd consider a general right-of-return within 7 or 14 days as reasonable. Games which don't entertain beyond that timeframe are not worth the money.

(in reply to E)
Post #: 15
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 6:32:15 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

If anything this 'guarantee' will have an adverse effect on pricing in the EU not the opposit.

I'm talking about customer rights, not about pricing here. Right now, a customer has to pay a full price, but the producer doesn't have to provide a finished product and doesn't need to inform the customer that he's buying an unfinished/faulty product.

Amusingly, I started a topic on CCS about the customers rights in gaming some time ago. It's funny how developers always use the same arguments to support their breaking of customer rights.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

1) Most if not ALL small companys will just stop selling to the EU

Actually, no one ever sells anything to the UE, because of those horrible customer rights *facepalm*.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

2) The price will reflect the opportunists looking for FREE entertainment.

You mean the opportunists that already use torrents to get the FREE entertainment?
Frankly, that whole "opportunists" argument is pure bullshit. It was invented by producers that know that if one copy of a game is faulty, then probably all the other copies are faulty too. Which means that they will have losses from mass returns or will have to mark all the copies as faulty, which would look bad on boxes.

After all who would like to buy a game who has a feature, like "crashes randomly", "faulty infantry/vehicle pathing", "musing graphic glitches", "crashes even on Playstation", etc.?

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 5/16/2009 6:33:00 PM >

_____________________________

People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

(in reply to Sarge)
Post #: 16
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 6:35:24 PM   
Phatguy

 

Posts: 1348
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: E


quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

I really think they are just trying to kick the evil empire down, We know which gaming one that is , right?

Pong?


HeHe...close but not the one i meant..and no, not the evil empire of vista but the one of the overblown blowhard who just retired

(in reply to E)
Post #: 17
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 6:37:46 PM   
Sarge


Posts: 2841
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: ask doggie
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

Two years is immoderate but I'd consider a general right-of-return within 7 or 14 days as reasonable. Games which don't entertain beyond that timeframe are not worth the money.


So your saying if the “individual” finds no personal entertainment value after 7-14 days irregardless of functionality of the software they should get their money back .



_____________________________


(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 18
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 7:27:20 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

Two years is immoderate but I'd consider a general right-of-return within 7 or 14 days as reasonable. Games which don't entertain beyond that timeframe are not worth the money.


That post seems to have been less than thought through...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Lützow)
Post #: 19
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 7:30:51 PM   
SireChaos

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 8/14/2006
From: Frankfurt, Germany
Status: offline 		Since to my knowledge software does not degrade from use, a guarantee over a certain time period does not make much sense.

Two arrangements that, in my mind, would make sense are:

1) For a certain period - two years, for example - the producers have to devote a certain amount of resources to fixing bugs and customer support and stuff. Or alternatively, they have to pay for the cost of someone else fixing the bugs in their game. No more "We´ve earned enough with this one, we´re off to the next project, dear customer, sucks to be you".

2) Some definite rules are set up which sort of bugs give the customer the right to have his money back, as well as rules detailing that with certain bugs with impair but do not destroy gameplay, customers get part of their money back.

(in reply to Sarge)
Post #: 20
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 7:31:41 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

So your saying if the “individual” finds no personal entertainment value after 7-14 days irregardless of functionality of the software they should get their money back.



Why setting individuals in quotation marks? Actually I was refering to typical videogames with an average playtime of about 20h, being sold for 50 bucks.

My personal stance is, that a full price game should have a long-term entertainment value.

(in reply to Sarge)
Post #: 21
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 7:37:36 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		And then the videogame business would become a rental business, because nobody would ever buy a videogame to keep for longer than 13 days anymore. Nobody.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Lützow)
Post #: 22
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 7:51:08 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Actually the game business 'is' a rental business where I live. As I can rent almost every mainstream title from video store, supposed it doesn't need a steam activation. However, I'm not advocating a free ride but would like to see more titles with longevity again, worth to be purchased.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 23
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/16/2009 8:09:31 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hermanhum

quote:

The future of games development has been called into question after the EU Commission suggested developers provide a two year guarantee.

[snip]

At present, licensed software is exempt from EU legislation that forces firms to offer "a minimum 2-year guarantee on tangible movable consumer goods".

[snip]

At present, retailers are not obliged to give a refund on a video game that has a bug or glitch that prevents a user completing a game. If the proposals become law, this could change as users would have the right "to get a product that works with fair commercial conditions".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8044125.stm


This is another example of a knee-jerk reaction to a miscommunicated media story about an issue that they don't fully understand. The future of the gaming industry has been "called into question" after the EU commission "suggested developers provide a two-year guarantee"? Re-read it, and ask yourselves, "does this actually mean jack all squat"?

Hint: it doesn't.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to hermanhum)
Post #: 24
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/17/2009 12:06:44 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

So your saying if the “individual” finds no personal entertainment value after 7-14 days irregardless of functionality of the software they should get their money back.



Why setting individuals in quotation marks? Actually I was refering to typical videogames with an average playtime of about 20h, being sold for 50 bucks.

My personal stance is, that a full price game should have a long-term entertainment value.

I agree with Sarge here. $50 for 20 hours entertainment is not a bad price.

And I would think he put "individual" into quotations because the length of time it takes a player to complete a game is only relative to the individual. If you bought Bioshock and played it in 20 hours and I bought it and played it in 40...the game is the same game...but I "appear" to have gotten more value out of it, right? Ergo the value is relative.

(in reply to Lützow)
Post #: 25
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/17/2009 12:28:40 AM   
SireChaos

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 8/14/2006
From: Frankfurt, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SireChaos

Since to my knowledge software does not degrade from use, a guarantee over a certain time period does not make much sense.

Two arrangements that, in my mind, would make sense are:

1) For a certain period - two years, for example - the producers have to devote a certain amount of resources to fixing bugs and customer support and stuff. Or alternatively, they have to pay for the cost of someone else fixing the bugs in their game. No more "We´ve earned enough with this one, we´re off to the next project, dear customer, sucks to be you".

2) Some definite rules are set up which sort of bugs give the customer the right to have his money back, as well as rules detailing that with certain bugs with impair but do not destroy gameplay, customers get part of their money back.


On second (or third) thought...

3) A kind of reverse-period guarantee is instituted: producers guarantee that, after a certain period (say, one month or three months) after it is published, a game is bug-free. Everyone who bought before that is compensated with a portion of the price for their work as beta-testers.

(in reply to SireChaos)
Post #: 26
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/17/2009 1:33:42 AM   
Sarge


Posts: 2841
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: ask doggie
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

So your saying if the “individual” finds no personal entertainment value after 7-14 days irregardless of functionality of the software they should get their money back.



Why setting individuals in quotation marks? Actually I was refering to typical videogames with an average playtime of about 20h, being sold for 50 bucks.

My personal stance is, that a full price game should have a long-term entertainment value.


Judge is correct, I was pointing out how your idea of warranty was a matter of individual opinion and imposable to regulate any number of exploitations.

_____________________________


(in reply to SireChaos)
Post #: 27
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/17/2009 2:23:18 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

If only we could get a two year guarantee on government working as expected...

Let's not insert politics here again, okay?

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 28
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/17/2009 2:31:38 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge
Judge is correct, I was pointing out how your idea of warranty was a matter of individual opinion and imposable to regulate any number of exploitations.

This is right on the money. Whose standard determines whether the software is "defective?" If the user's opinion is the benchmark, such a requirement opens all kinds of silly possibilities, not the least of which is Junior Johnny Rockstar's ability to buy a game, play it to exhaustion, then claim spuriously that it was defective and obtain a refund.

Underneath all this, I smell another surreptitious, European attempt to get into Microsoft's pants...

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Sarge)
Post #: 29
RE: Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee - 5/17/2009 8:15:52 AM   
Doggie


Posts: 3244
Joined: 9/19/2001
From: Under the porch
Status: offline 		The Kommisars at ther EU are now going to protect the proletariat from exploitation by the evil capitalists.

Yeah, that'll work.

All you "citizens of the world" should prepare yourself to pay double and triple what you're paying now, because the guardians of the working class will have to add on some more taxes to enforce the new age of enlightment.

_____________________________

Visit the New, Improved Mad Dog's Drive Thru

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> Proposal by EU for 2 year guarantee Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.484