RE: It's June! Are we gold yet?

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RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 4:40:23 PM

rroberson

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Sorry guys, we have tried it both ways. For important releases, if the physical copy is not available at release we get a lot of flak directed at us from the customer base. I realize that most of you posting here just want the download version ASAP. However, from past experience, once you have the download and later start hearing how beautiful the 330 page color manual is, you'll be asking us if there's any way to retroactively "upgrade" your purchase, etc. It adds to our support load and makes for enough unhappy customers that we really prefer the synchronized releases when possible. Besides, AE is not gold (yet) so at this point neither version is ready. Keep in mind also that this does have limits, so we're not going to delay the release indefinitely if the printer keeps exceeding our deadlines.

Regards,

- Erik

Um. That's silly. If you have customers who don't care about the manual at first...(and I'm sure that is a small base) then later they change their mind. And decide "I'd really like that smokin' manual" you sell them the disk with manual. You set a rate for the "upgrade". I'd venture to say that other then our few friends here with dial-up, the bulk of us who are buying this have dsl or cable and will be able to download this straight away. The vast majority of that group will likely pay the extra coin to get the DL and disk (with manual). I cannot think of a single game download where I did that in the past few years where as soon as the release version was ready it wasn't put up for download and I was told specifically that I wouldnt see the package with the disk a couple weeks later. Which was fine since the manual is online (PDF). It's your game and company, but to hold this up for a manual and hard disk when the bulk of your customers would be downloading anyway doesnt seem to make a lot of sense.

< Message edited by rroberson -- 6/3/2009 4:42:53 PM >

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Post #: 61

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 4:53:09 PM

AW1Steve

Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Sorry guys, we have tried it both ways. For important releases, if the physical copy is not available at release we get a lot of flak directed at us from the customer base. I realize that most of you posting here just want the download version ASAP. However, from past experience, once you have the download and later start hearing how beautiful the 330 page color manual is, you'll be asking us if there's any way to retroactively "upgrade" your purchase, etc. It adds to our support load and makes for enough unhappy customers that we really prefer the synchronized releases when possible. Besides, AE is not gold (yet) so at this point neither version is ready. Keep in mind also that this does have limits, so we're not going to delay the release indefinitely if the printer keeps exceeding our deadlines.

Regards,

- Erik

As always Erik, thank you. We know that the Matrix team did their best, but you can control the actions of a contractor. Thanks for all the efforts that you and your team have made, and most of all , thank you for keeping us informed. It's not easy giving bad news, and we appreciate you braving a few unpleasant comments to keep the rest of us in the loop. Many thanks, and Bravo Zulu!

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Post #: 62

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 5:15:09 PM

Q-Ball

Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
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I work for a company that has a large production print center on Long Island. Maybe next time Erik we can take a crack at that manual, and get it done faster!

PS: Or, I would be happy to get you a competitive bid RIGHT NOW, I'll just need the template to price that out for you. I'll PM you my work e-mail, you can shoot that right over...

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Post #: 63

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 5:16:42 PM

AW1Steve

Posts: 14507
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From: Mordor Illlinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I work for a company that has a large production print center on Long Island. Maybe next time Erik we can take a crack at that manual, and get it done faster!

Plus, then I could get my hands on an advanced copy........

NOW YOU TELL HIM!!!!

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Post #: 64

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 6:14:01 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson
Um. That's silly. If you have customers who don't care about the manual at first...(and I'm sure that is a small base) then later they change their mind. And decide "I'd really like that smokin' manual" you sell them the disk with manual. You set a rate for the "upgrade".

See, here's the part you missed. We'd love to do that, but our store technology doesn't allow it. Hence, synchronized releases when possible.

We are not currently holding up the release at all, by the way. Once it goes gold, if the manual is still not ready, then we'll have to make that actual decision. I'm just posting projections here to keep you guys posted.

Edit: I should add that "upgrading" previous digital downloads to physical copies has been #1 on our store improvement list for several years now. DR just can't seem to get it done, it's a major hurdle for them in terms of their existing store design.

Regards,

- Erik

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 6/3/2009 6:21:46 PM >

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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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Post #: 65

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 6:15:09 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
I work for a company that has a large production print center on Long Island. Maybe next time Erik we can take a crack at that manual, and get it done faster!
PS: Or, I would be happy to get you a competitive bid RIGHT NOW, I'll just need the template to price that out for you. I'll PM you my work e-mail, you can shoot that right over...

I'm always happy to check out more bids, e-mail me at erikr@matrixgames.com. Too late for this release, but who knows for future releases, if your prices are competitive anything is possible.

Regards,

- Erik

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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Post #: 66

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 6:25:48 PM

m10bob

Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson
Um. That's silly. If you have customers who don't care about the manual at first...(and I'm sure that is a small base) then later they change their mind. And decide "I'd really like that smokin' manual" you sell them the disk with manual. You set a rate for the "upgrade".

See, here's the part you missed. We'd love to do that, but our store technology doesn't allow it. Hence, synchronized releases when possible.

We are not currently holding up the release at all, by the way. Once it goes gold, if the manual is still not ready, then we'll have to make that actual decision. I'm just posting projections here to keep you guys posted.

Edit: I should add that "upgrading" previous digital downloads to physical copies has been #1 on our store improvement list for several years now. DR just can't seem to get it done, it's a major hurdle for them in terms of their existing store design.

Regards,

- Erik

Well....when you are ready, I will pay for the AE and the download.....just send the CD and manual in the case when you have them...(I don't read manuals anyway).

< Message edited by m10bob -- 6/3/2009 6:47:43 PM >

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Post #: 67

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 6:25:56 PM

Q-Ball

Posts: 7336
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From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
I work for a company that has a large production print center on Long Island. Maybe next time Erik we can take a crack at that manual, and get it done faster!
PS: Or, I would be happy to get you a competitive bid RIGHT NOW, I'll just need the template to price that out for you. I'll PM you my work e-mail, you can shoot that right over...

I'm always happy to check out more bids, e-mail me at erikr@matrixgames.com. Too late for this release, but who knows for future releases, if your prices are competitive anything is possible.

Regards,

- Erik

Great! Just send me that manual and I can ensure you get the best pricing next time. Oh, and downloaded copy, this is necessary for our pricing analysis.

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Post #: 68

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 6:27:30 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
Great! Just send me that manual and I can ensure you get the best pricing next time. Oh, and downloaded copy, this is necessary for our pricing analysis.

Yeah, you know I was wise to your game from the start...

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

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Post #: 69

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 6:28:07 PM

Q-Ball

Posts: 7336
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From: Chicago, Illinois
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Seriously, I'll forward that contact to one of our reps out there, but needless to say I would take a personal interest in getting it done quick next time, otherwise I would be persona non grata on this forum if "Q-Ball was the reason why AE didn't come out"

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Post #: 70

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 6:38:18 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson
Um. That's silly. If you have customers who don't care about the manual at first...(and I'm sure that is a small base) then later they change their mind. And decide "I'd really like that smokin' manual" you sell them the disk with manual. You set a rate for the "upgrade".

See, here's the part you missed. We'd love to do that, but our store technology doesn't allow it. Hence, synchronized releases when possible.

We are not currently holding up the release at all, by the way. Once it goes gold, if the manual is still not ready, then we'll have to make that actual decision. I'm just posting projections here to keep you guys posted.

Edit: I should add that "upgrading" previous digital downloads to physical copies has been #1 on our store improvement list for several years now. DR just can't seem to get it done, it's a major hurdle for them in terms of their existing store design.

Regards,

- Erik

OK, so don't do/can't do an upgrade. The two products will have different SKU numbers in the DR store, right? Put up the digital when it's ready, later put up the boxed when it's ready. If digital customer wants boxed version they pay full boat later, when boxed is ready--a premium for early ownership. Not pay the difference--pay for the game twice. I guarantee there are folks here who would gladly do that to to get the digital a month early.

Just flag the heck out of the order page so only a blind man could miss that the digital product is, and always will be, only a digital download product, with no upgrade path. Problem solved (and more revenue.)

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The Moose

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Post #: 71

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 6:47:26 PM

m10bob

Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Seriously, I'll forward that contact to one of our reps out there, but needless to say I would take a personal interest in getting it done quick next time, otherwise I would be persona non grata on this forum if "Q-Ball was the reason why AE didn't come out"

Brad...we gotta blame somebody....Thank for for volunteering!.

BTW, I learned to fly in a J3 very much like in that pic of your relative.........

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Post #: 72

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 7:33:42 PM

Q-Ball

Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Seriously, I'll forward that contact to one of our reps out there, but needless to say I would take a personal interest in getting it done quick next time, otherwise I would be persona non grata on this forum if "Q-Ball was the reason why AE didn't come out"

Brad...we gotta blame somebody....Thank for for volunteering!.
BTW, I learned to fly in a J3 very much like in that pic of your relative.........

Thanks! The pic is my grandfather. After the war, he had a share of a J-3 for awhile, to keep his pilot license up. He said it's easy to fly and very forgiving. He considered staying in the Army after the war, but Grandma talked him out of it.

He did stay in the reserves though, but not as a pilot, just an artilleryman.

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Post #: 73

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 8:04:50 PM

rroberson

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson
Um. That's silly. If you have customers who don't care about the manual at first...(and I'm sure that is a small base) then later they change their mind. And decide "I'd really like that smokin' manual" you sell them the disk with manual. You set a rate for the "upgrade".

See, here's the part you missed. We'd love to do that, but our store technology doesn't allow it. Hence, synchronized releases when possible.

We are not currently holding up the release at all, by the way. Once it goes gold, if the manual is still not ready, then we'll have to make that actual decision. I'm just posting projections here to keep you guys posted.

Edit: I should add that "upgrading" previous digital downloads to physical copies has been #1 on our store improvement list for several years now. DR just can't seem to get it done, it's a major hurdle for them in terms of their existing store design.

Regards,

- Erik

Then if I really must have that manual, I guess I need to buy the game again :). How hard is it to set a store price for the disk for people who can prove they already have the download (via that license number)? Seems like a book keeping issue more then anything else. I quess I'm quibbling here, but it does seem rather dumb to hold a game up because the printers of a manual which while beautiful won't be read more then once (if that) by most of your customer base. I mean honestly who will really read the manual before firing this up? Raise your hand

At any rate, since I feel like Im arguing and I don't want to do that and I am perfectly happy with my CHS games (which now will continue for at least two more months

) Back to my corner of the empire.

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Post #: 74

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 8:10:05 PM

Kitakami

Posts: 1302
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Erik,

Even though you will receive some flak for deciding to go with a sinchronzed release, in the end, we will wait, we will buy, and we will be happy :)
It's just that in this era of immediate gratification, it is sometimes difficult to wait... but good things come to he who waits...

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Post #: 75

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 8:49:03 PM

wworld7

Posts: 1727
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From: The Nutmeg State
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson

How hard is it to set a store price for the disk for people who can prove they already have the download (via that license number)? Seems like a book keeping issue more then anything else.

I quess I'm quibbling here, but it does seem rather dumb to hold a game up because the printers of a manual which while beautiful won't be read more then once (if that) by most of your customer base.

First, it is probably much more than a book keeping issue depending, and this is key, upon how DR's system was created. Like any other software program often you are stuck with whatever options were originally programmed for. Change is never easy after that without a complete redo (look at WITP-AE as an example).

Second, Erik has stated NOTHING is being delayed yet. WITP-AE is not ready. When it is perhaps they will change the plan. Personally the more time spent testing the better it is for the success of the product (yes, I know not everyone agrees with this view).

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Post #: 76

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 9:28:20 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
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From: Vermont, USA
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Just to clear one thing up, this is not a similar situation to a year ago, months ago, whatever. We are in the final push to release and delays will not be measured in months, but rather in weeks or days.

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

Post #: 77

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 9:41:25 PM

tondern

Posts: 38
Joined: 3/26/2004
From: Foggy Bottom, DC
Status: offline

Hey Erik,

Thanks for the update, much appreciated.

I know I am disappointed at the delay, but I will wait as patiently as possible.

As has been said by many on this forum, getting this done right is worth the wait.

Johnny

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Post #: 78

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 9:56:00 PM

Tophat1815

Posts: 1824
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson
Um. That's silly. If you have customers who don't care about the manual at first...(and I'm sure that is a small base) then later they change their mind. And decide "I'd really like that smokin' manual" you sell them the disk with manual. You set a rate for the "upgrade".

See, here's the part you missed. We'd love to do that, but our store technology doesn't allow it. Hence, synchronized releases when possible.

We are not currently holding up the release at all, by the way. Once it goes gold, if the manual is still not ready, then we'll have to make that actual decision. I'm just posting projections here to keep you guys posted.

Edit: I should add that "upgrading" previous digital downloads to physical copies has been #1 on our store improvement list for several years now. DR just can't seem to get it done, it's a major hurdle for them in terms of their existing store design.

Regards,

- Erik

Sure,sure answer him but not me..........mutter,mutter,harrrrummmpfh.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 79

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 9:56:52 PM

rroberson

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Just to clear one thing up, this is not a similar situation to a year ago, months ago, whatever. We are in the final push to release and delays will not be measured in months, but rather in weeks or days.

And like the lemming I am, Ill be there credit card in hand whenever you guys launch it

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Post #: 80

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 10:17:15 PM

Barb

Posts: 2503
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From: Bratislava, Slovakia
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Stop whinning kids. Just tell me how many of you have christmas in mid-summer?

Your whinning will not help the game to go gold... use your vacations for your families, girlfriends, kids - you know later there will be no time for that

Erik: you should always bring salt-loaded shot-gun into this fray now on

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Post #: 81

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 10:20:26 PM

Przemcio231

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Come on instead of whinig "When AE will be realesed do something else

Like me i had few beers with my buddy today and he has Amiga Emulator on his HD:) we played such top games as "Walker" where i operated miniguns and sloughtered the nazis and my buddy was doing the walking

Or Pirates Gold

but the best was left to the last when we lunched North&South

we were laughing and playing for like 2 hours and had to stop only becouse he is going to work tommorow:)

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Post #: 82

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 10:36:23 PM

jwilkerson

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From: Kansas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson
I have spoken to at least one beta who said the game was damn close to being done (and that was six months or more ago) That's a delay.

The last mile always takes the longest. We can be "mostly done" and still not be totally done. I think of this project has having had 1000 theads of activity. Six months ago maybe 850 of them were done. One month ago maybe 970 of them were done - but for example getting the Allied AI to work on in to late 44 and early 45 has been a recent focus - this wasn't a priority 6 months ago - hecque it wasn't even on the radar screen six months ago.

There are threads that still need a bit more time - in my opinion - but we are definitely making progress and closing down activity threads weekly. Believe it or not - we are still waiting for art from multiple folks - I never would've guessed that art would've been a bottleneck - but if I'm worried about anything at this point it is actually making sure the art is 100% done on time. The art has been "almost done" for 15 months - but - it still is not totally done.

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Post #: 83

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 10:36:31 PM

Barb

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From: Bratislava, Slovakia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231
Come on instead of whinig "When AE will be realesed do something else Like me i had few beers with my buddy today and he has Amiga Emulator on his HD:) we played such top games as "Walker" where i operated miniguns and sloughtered the nazis and my buddy was doing the walking Or Pirates Gold but the best was left to the last when we lunched North&South we were laughing and playing for like 2 hours and had to stop only becouse he is going to work tommorow:)

Well, I cooked superb (and I am still slobbering) Lasagne bolognese today - just for me and my tongue

Each of us has its own ways...

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Post #: 84

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 11:11:31 PM

m10bob

Posts: 8622
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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Just to clear one thing up, this is not a similar situation to a year ago, months ago, whatever. We are in the final push to release and delays will not be measured in months, but rather in weeks or days.

Well..that last comment would surely cause coitus interruptus!

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Post #: 85

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 11:41:46 PM

rroberson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson
I have spoken to at least one beta who said the game was damn close to being done (and that was six months or more ago) That's a delay.

The last mile always takes the longest. We can be "mostly done" and still not be totally done. I think of this project has having had 1000 theads of activity. Six months ago maybe 850 of them were done. One month ago maybe 970 of them were done - but for example getting the Allied AI to work on in to late 44 and early 45 has been a recent focus - this wasn't a priority 6 months ago - hecque it wasn't even on the radar screen six months ago.

There are threads that still need a bit more time - in my opinion - but we are definitely making progress and closing down activity threads weekly. Believe it or not - we are still waiting for art from multiple folks - I never would've guessed that art would've been a bottleneck - but if I'm worried about anything at this point it is actually making sure the art is 100% done on time. The art has been "almost done" for 15 months - but - it still is not totally done.

I get that. I am certainly not whining about a product that will no doubt be on my various hard drives for years to come. I think the comment that this giant sized game that you guys have been grinding away at for years was going to be held up yet again for printer issues. (And two or three more weeks means two or three less weeks I get to toy with it before my summer ends

) To me that borders on insanity, since whether or not we have a hot looking manual in our hands we are purchasing the game for the software not the book that comes with it. I said I would go back to my tiny little empire (where my opponent is about to begin the great pacific crusade) and say no more and I won't. As I said before, whenever this finally gets out the door, this summer or this christmas, I have little doubt that like the lemming I am my credit card will be in hand

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Post #: 86

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/3/2009 11:47:11 PM

LST Express

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From: Texas
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I think it speaks well for Witp, Matrix and the people working on AE that there are so many guys chomping at the bit to get this game. I don't see devotion like this most days in my every day life, that's for sure! And I'm looking forward to the game and the manual, whenever they are ready.

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Post #: 87

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/4/2009 2:21:31 AM

Tophat1815

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LST Express

I think it speaks well for�Witp, Matrix and the�people working on AE that there are so many guys�chomping at�the bit to get�this game. I don't see�devotion like this most days in my every day life, that's for sure! And I'm looking forward to the game and the manual, whenever they are ready.

Basically when the original WiTp was close to release people also got a wee bit anxious.

(in reply to LST Express)

Post #: 88

RE: It's June! Are we gold yet? - 6/4/2009 3:10:29 AM

ny59giants