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RE: Most innacurate war movies

 
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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 2:18:09 AM   
Sarge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

It would be an embarrassment by a Hollywood "logic". Stepping out from a helicopter and falling would be too "uncool" for Hollywood. Also, it wouldn't be dramatic enough for them.



Thats a valid point there Perturabo…………






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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 3:58:21 AM   
Obsolete


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"U571, Battle of the Bulge, Pearl Harbour..."

I have yet to see Pearl Harbour, and from what I have heard from others, including the fact my girlfriend saw it and wants me to watch it with her (that's always terrible news!), is enough to keep me at bay.

I also have to admit that I never saw Battle of the Bulge in its entire form.  I did see the ending of this many years ago, and I only know this was the movie because I remember that part where American soldiers were tumbling gasoline barrels down a small hill, and an utterly stupid column of Tigers (oops, fake Tigers) decided to BUMP into these barrels regardless, despite they would simply blow up for some mystical reason and knock out every tank they touched.

Well, there you have it.  I suppose the Germans lost the war because they couldn't afford enough fuel to put in barrels so they could simply roll them into those T-34's that were coming.  That is, assuming the Russians would be just as stupid as to bump all their tanks into these gasoline barrels.

I do suppose now, this means I should now try to watch the whole movie just to compare it to U571, but I still find it hard to believe anything else could be worse.  But we shall see.  At least battle of the bulge was supposed to take place in the bulge?  For heaven's sake, U571 couldn't even get the name of the proper ocean right, or the year for that matter.





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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 4:17:12 AM   
Hanal

 

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Hogan's Heroes...I know, not a war movie, but it was the most insulting piece of WWII crap, whether for the big or small screen!

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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 4:23:08 AM   
Silverdog

 

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Never watched ‘Battle of the Bulge’ and after reading this thread I doubt I ever will! But I agree with all the other WW2 films in particular Das Boot, never get tired of watching that.

I can understand why WW2 is a popular time period, due to plenty of written/film documentation to help it, but that does not alwasy mean films are ture to history. It’s a shame that there are not more films dealing with other periods of history. I like the films Sergei Bondarchuk did on the Napoleonic era, might not be accurate, but the scale of the battle scene’s in War and Peace/Waterloo are quite something.


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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 6:25:56 AM   
SS Hauptsturmfuhrer


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I saw a couple of nice ultra old naval movies I think were 'Sink the Bismark' and 'Battle of the River Plate'.  I've read books about those stories and am quite fond of the naval chess game those people played.  I wish the Kriegsmarine had had more big ships to go out and whoop some allied ships with.  I guess the war started too early.  The movies are good though much less brutal than reality as the British are quite fond of pounding German ships into burning wrecks and turning the hapless crews into chunky soup.  Maybe the allies were unhappy that the Germans couldn't provide more big ship action so they got over-exited given a chance.  Poor Bismark kept rolling ones over and over.... unlucky torp hit on the propellor, unlucky reaquisition by allies, and a very unlucky opening hit on the Bismark's rangefinder.  The Italians should have let Germans crew their Roma class BBs then we'd have seen a more even battle for the Mediterranean.

Now I pray to the gods that someone doesn't come along and tell me these movies are crap.


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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 6:42:18 AM   
Plodder


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quote:

There was another movie, with John Belushi in it. He is in the Desert in his Grant/Lee tank, and he teams up with a Pommie, and Aussie and a few others. Haven't seen it for a while, but at least they got the tank right. I cannot remember the name for it now.


I think you're getting two movies mixed up John belushi was a tank commander in 1941 and the movie you're thinking of is Sahara with Humphrey Bogart which was fairly average.


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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 9:06:12 AM   
E

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Plodder

quote:

There was another movie, with John Belushi in it. He is in the Desert in his Grant/Lee tank, and he teams up with a Pommie, and Aussie and a few others. Haven't seen it for a while, but at least they got the tank right. I cannot remember the name for it now.


I think you're getting two movies mixed up John belushi was a tank commander in 1941



Then his tank was shaped like a P-40.

The real problem with this thread is it makes me want to re-watch all these movies! (well, except for Pearl Harbor & U571)

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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 10:15:46 AM   
Plodder


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quote:

Then his tank was shaped like a P-40.


Oh,yeah It was Dan Ackroyd wasn't it?

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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 11:08:22 AM   
JudgeDredd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SS Hauptsturmfuhrer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Obsolete

Blackhawk Down is the most accurate war movie, even down to exact words said and gunbattle situations.

There were a lot of inaccurate problems I had with this "Hollywood" movie, but it would take threads full to get into them all.  I'll just point out one typical issue then right at the start..

The part where super-duper smart helicopter pilot is able to spot an RPG, and in lightning speed, jerks back the vehicle, and perfectly times the rpg to shoot right threw the open space in the heli, JUST LIKE THAT!

Ummmmmm...... O_o..  ?  Is that Rambo again?



This is Holywood's explanation as to why an American soldier fell off the heli and basically crippled himself.  The fact is, the heli in real-life was in no such situation, and the soldier simply stepped out to grab onto the rope and instead mis-stepped and fell.  There was no action during that time, just a simple standard procedure.  Not even a simple bullet had flown yet, and no one was even expecting one to yet at that point.

Yes, it was a simple accident, but definitely was embarrasing for the forces, so Holywood decided to TWIST the story once again to make it more heroic.

I refuse to get into any more issues on BlackHawkD... let's just say that movie was a let-down for me since I had did some study on the scenario long before HOLLYWOOD decided to bring this to the silver screen for a fast buck.


I can't remember that scene in the movie but I do remember it in the book. And yes the ranger did miss the rope for no reason other than having pre-battle jitters and moving too fast. Poop on whoever decided to add in the silly embellishment.

I think you are being very unfair here. Alright, it's only one snippet you picked out, but I think it's the worst one you could've choosen for showing innacuracy.

For a start, it isn't critical to the story, ergo doesn't have an impact and shouldn't really be covered under the thread. Secondly, the film was a film. It was NOT a documentary. If it was a documentary, I would allow you to site this as an innacuracy which equalled spoiling the film.

And I'm with Sarge...hardly an embarrassment. I suspect it was purely done for visceral content, and being as it was a film and not a documentary, then it's allowed.

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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 1:20:17 PM   
Sarge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronDuke

U571 was the worst.

Ingenious American submariners steal Enigma, at one fell swoop writing British efforts (which included some fallen Sailors/real heroes if memory serves) right out of the war.


Indeed , another sick hollyweird look at history ..........

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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 1:53:50 PM   
sapper_astro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Plodder

quote:

There was another movie, with John Belushi in it. He is in the Desert in his Grant/Lee tank, and he teams up with a Pommie, and Aussie and a few others. Haven't seen it for a while, but at least they got the tank right. I cannot remember the name for it now.


I think you're getting two movies mixed up John belushi was a tank commander in 1941 and the movie you're thinking of is Sahara with Humphrey Bogart which was fairly average.



http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114324/

I knew I had seen it! Make that James Belushi. Looks like they have already been through a remake phase.

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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 2:12:58 PM   
cantona2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SS Hauptsturmfuhrer

Blackhawk Down is the most accurate war movie, even down to exact words said and gunbattle situations.  It is tied with Starship Troopers (1997) for the movie I've seen the most times.  Like 4 times each I think.  A Bridge Too Far was another very accurate movie.

Battle of the Bulge was pure cheese start to end like no snow, evil psychotic Germans, fake singing, fake tanks, fake situations etc.  The Longest Day before I stopped watching it was pretty random too showing German fighters strafing the allies on the beaches and the pilots were guffawing as they did it... uhhh hi Mr. Director... there were no German airplanes in Normandy.  Stalingrad (Enemy at the Gates) about the snipers was all dull fiction except for the fact there was a famous Russian sniper in Stalingrad.  The historical situation where an elite German sniper was taken out by the Russian sniper was a lot more interesting than the fictional way the movie did it.  In real life, the famous Russian sniper couldn't find the German so another Russian stuck his head up to provide a target, got shot dead, and so the famous sniper spotted the German and shot him.




Yes this did happen.

Most inaccurate war film has to be The Battle of the Bulge. About time a remake was made!

Pearl Harbour is also up there with the bullshit Hollywood interpretation of WW2



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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 2:15:20 PM   
cantona2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronDuke


U571 was the worst.




OMG how did i forget that one!

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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 2:24:31 PM   
JudgeDredd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sapper_astro

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Plodder

quote:

There was another movie, with John Belushi in it. He is in the Desert in his Grant/Lee tank, and he teams up with a Pommie, and Aussie and a few others. Haven't seen it for a while, but at least they got the tank right. I cannot remember the name for it now.


I think you're getting two movies mixed up John belushi was a tank commander in 1941 and the movie you're thinking of is Sahara with Humphrey Bogart which was fairly average.



http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114324/

I knew I had seen it! Make that James Belushi. Looks like they have already been through a remake phase.


I caught about 20 minutes of this one and switched it off. I think James Belushi is a great actor, but this film was pants!

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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 2:33:09 PM   
vonRocko

 

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Come on guys,give the Battle of the Bulge a break!  Henry Fonda,Robert Shaw,Charles Bronson,all great actors.
Yes it is innacurate,but it does give the general flow of the battle. From the initial confusion to the Germans fuel shortage.The movie is for the mass public who do not know the battle except for the name.Totally inacurate,but very entertaining.












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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 2:50:42 PM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2

Most inaccurate war film has to be The Battle of the Bulge. About time a remake was made!

Michael Bay or Uwe Boll?

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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 3:06:46 PM   
mack2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sapper_astro
There was another movie, with John Belushi in it. He is in the Desert in his Grant/Lee tank, and he teams up with a Pommie, and Aussie and a few others. Haven't seen it for a while, but at least they got the tank right. I cannot remember the name for it now.


1941 perhaps?


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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 3:21:31 PM   
Sarge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

Come on guys,give the Battle of the Bulge a break! Henry Fonda,Robert Shaw,Charles Bronson,all great actors.

No !
quote:


Yes it is innacurate,but it does give the general flow of the battle. From the initial confusion to the Germans fuel shortage.The movie is for the mass public who do not know the battle except for the name.Totally inacurate,but very entertaining.


Mark Twain had a saying that I think applies to this hideous film

quote:


If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed

This film should be black listed as any reference in the historical context ...

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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 4:17:02 PM   
Jason Petho


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mack2


quote:

ORIGINAL: sapper_astro
There was another movie, with John Belushi in it. He is in the Desert in his Grant/Lee tank, and he teams up with a Pommie, and Aussie and a few others. Haven't seen it for a while, but at least they got the tank right. I cannot remember the name for it now.


1941 perhaps?




Sahara, I believe.

Jason Petho


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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 7:28:00 PM   
Joe D.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

quote:

ORIGINAL: mack2

quote:

ORIGINAL: sapper_astro
There was another movie, with John Belushi in it. He is in the Desert in his Grant/Lee tank, and he teams up with a Pommie, and Aussie and a few others. Haven't seen it for a while, but at least they got the tank right. I cannot remember the name for it now.


1941 perhaps?



Sahara, I believe.

Jason Petho


Sahara (1943)

THE STAR OF "CASABLANCA" IN THE WAR'S MIGHTIEST ADVENTURE DRAMA!

SENSATIONAL! DRAMATIC! EMOTIONAL! MEMORABLE!

Their dramatic story can now be told!

A mighty story of adventure, courage and glory in the desert!...tender human emotion...triumphant action...matchless thrills...a memorable entertainment experience!

Actualy the film was better than these taglines.

"Filmed during World War II, this film was intended to be a propaganda piece for the U.S. government.
Seargant Joe Gunn (Bogart) leads an abandoned tank unit after the fall of Tobruk in North Africa.
The tanks picks up British, French, South African, and Sudanese soldiers along the way, becoming a microcosm of the Allied troops. The group works together to defeat a much larger German force that wants the same water well that they have.
The film portrays all of the images that the U.S. deemed important for the American people see in regards to the war" (Written by Kasey Kist ).

Sahara also starred Lloyd Bridges, Dan Duryea and J Carol Naish.


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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 7:33:36 PM   
Joe D.


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How abt 1945's "A Walk in the Sun"? The cast had everyone, even Huntz Hall from "The Dead End Kids" aka "The Bowery Boys"?

Courtesy IMDb

A Walk in the Sun (1945)

"In the 1943 invasion of Italy, one American platoon lands, digs in, then makes its way inland to attempt to take a fortified farmhouse, as tension and casualties mount.

Unusually realistic picture of war as long quiet stretches of talk, punctuated by sharp, random bursts of violent action whose relevance to the big picture is often unknown to the soldiers." (Written by Rod Crawford)

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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 7:47:39 PM   
Doggie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronDuke


U571 was the worst.

Ingenious American submariners steal Enigma, at one fell swoop writing British efforts (which included some fallen Sailors/real heroes if memory serves) right out of the war.



Ha rumpf. We do so got a U boat. It's sitting up on blocks right off the Chicago Express way. I'd call the guys that boarded a sinking u-boat armed with scuttling charges real heroes.

Where's your U boat? I didn't see any U boats tied up on ther Thames. Didn't see any battleships either. We got battle ships all over the place. That's because nobody sank them.

I thought The Patriot was a realistic war movie. American farmers taking on mean old redcoats. That movie rocked.

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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 7:52:33 PM   
Jason Petho


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
Sahara also starred Lloyd Bridges, Dan Duryea and J Carol Naish.



Ah yes... I was close.

Not.

*laughs*

Jason Petho


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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 8:43:11 PM   
GaryChildress

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

Come on guys,give the Battle of the Bulge a break!  Henry Fonda,Robert Shaw,Charles Bronson,all great actors.
Yes it is innacurate,but it does give the general flow of the battle. From the initial confusion to the Germans fuel shortage.The movie is for the mass public who do not know the battle except for the name.Totally inacurate,but very entertaining.


The problem with Battle of the Bulge, is it names itself after an historical battle and gets absolutely none of the details right about it. At least movies like A Bridge Too Far and so on TRY to cater to an audience who knows the difference between a Sherman tank and an M-47, or who know a bit about what happened in the battle. I give A Bridge Too Far kudos for making some effort at historical accuracy. Battle of the Bulge was like a B grade war movie with top notch actors. Almost NO historical research was necessary to make it. Granted it got the basics down, German fuel shortage and what not but other than that it made almost NO effort to get things right. It may be an entertaining movie regardless but since the title of the thread is "Most inaccurate war movies" (sorry for the mispelling in the thread title) I think Battle of the Bulge is a good nomination for topping the list.

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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 8:45:57 PM   
andym


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quote:

ORIGINAL: J P Falcon

Hogan's Heroes...I know, not a war movie, but it was the most insulting piece of WWII crap, whether for the big or small screen!



Its a classic comedy,well done and hilarious!

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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 9:24:37 PM   
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I might as well chime in here..I think most everyone can agree that Battle of the Bulge (which was the first one that came to mind), and U-571 are two of the worst made war movies. But even Bridge Too far, which I really like from the jump scenes, used Leopard I tanks in lieu of actual panthers or mk IV's.

As for the best..I am surprised no one has mentioned "Band of Brothers"..to me, that is by far the very best followed by "Gettysburg" , "Memphis Belle", "Cross of Iron" and "Das Boot". But there are plenty of other good old war movies like "Zulu" and "Battleground".

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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/3/2009 9:32:36 PM   
andym


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Gettysburg and the Prequel "Gods and Generals" were great apart from the terrible beards!Zulu is full of innacurracies but is still a good film.I went to scholl with a lad whos father had 3 ex RAF hangars FULL of WW2 equipement,both allied and German,all used in the film Industry.He even had 2 Bren Carriers still in their crates,unopened since they were made!It was like being in a sweet shop with a huge bag and not having to pay!

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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/4/2009 1:29:12 AM   
JagdFlanker


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i saw PH a looong time ago and always thought if the movie was edited to include only war scenes, dropping all the romance crap it might be watchable. i don't even remember the movie anymore, but would it be a decent movie it it was edited as such?

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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/4/2009 5:38:54 AM   
06 Maestro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flanker Leader

i saw PH a looong time ago and always thought if the movie was edited to include only war scenes, dropping all the romance crap it might be watchable. i don't even remember the movie anymore, but would it be a decent movie it it was edited as such?


Well, let me refresh your memory-I just watched about 1/2 the movie two nights ago.

US pilots telling ground personnel to get up into the control tower to shoot down a Jap plane on his tail-they did it.
US pilots flying in between buildings in the city with Jap planes on their tail-looks like Star Wars.
US pilots with Japs on their tails setting a trap; flying straight towards one another then conducting sharp left/right turns with the result of Jap fighters crashing into one another.

Even my 16 year old son started laughing at the scene of the US pilot flying in England punching his way out through his canopy after being shot down in the Channel.

They clearly have some good drugs in Kaleeforinia.

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RE: Most innacurate war movies - 6/4/2009 8:59:58 AM   
Culiacan Mexico

 

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“By innacurate it could be innaccurate props, or innaccurate story lines (unless the movie is intentionally about a fictional battle).”

Gary Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronDuke
U571 was the worst.

How so? U-571 is completely fictional. No such operation every happened during the war, so it doesn't seem to meet the criteria.

"...S-33, being modified to resemble a U-Boat... when S-33 sails, Hirsch explains that the Allies intercepted the disabled U-571's SOS. They are going to masquerade as the resupply ship U-571 called for, board the ship, capture her enigma coding device and then scuttle the U-571."



quote:

ORIGINAL: IronDuke
Ingenious American submariners steal Enigma, at one fell swoop writing British efforts...
Actually Polish efforts.


The only British naval action that even comes close to the premise of the movie would be this:

"On 30 October 1942, U-559 was damaged by five British destroyers in the eastern Mediterranean. After the captain was killed and the crew abandoned the U-boat, a British boarding party from HMS Petard entered the submarine and recovered the signal key books. Then two British sailors drowned trying to remove the Enigma machine when U-559 quickly sunk. However, the recovery of the signal key books was important because the addition of the fourth rotor in the early months of 1942 had prevented the Allied codebreakers from reading messages to the German submarines. The key books from U-559 enabled the Allies codebreakers to understand how the fourth rotor on the Enigma machine worked and to start reading the messages to German submarines again."


Please note: the fourth wheel was in itself not significant to winning the Battle of the Atlantic as the problem never was finding German U-Boat (Donitz was very happy to do that for the British). The problem was that the Germans were reading the British convoy codes, only once the British realized this and changed their codes did the dynamics of the battle change.



"The B-Dienst, created in the early 1930s, had decrypted the most
widely used code of the British Navy already by 1935. When the war
broke out in 1939, the B-Dienst specialists had deciphered the British
naval codes so well that the Germans new the positions of all British
warships. They had further decryption successes in the early stages of
the war; the British were slow at changing the codes. One important
code the B-Dienst could read was the British and Allied Merchants
Ships (BAMS) code, which proved valuable for U-Boat warfare. In
February 1942, the B-Dienst cracked the code used for communication
with many of the Atlantic convoys."




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"If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lig

(in reply to IronDuke_slith)
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