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Ship Repair - 5/27/2002 5:27:01 PM   
Sid

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Washington and Alaska
Status: offline 		How do ships get repaired? A ship not badly damaged can sail to a port -- or even to an entry port (Truk, Noumea, Brisbane) - but then what? It appears to just sit there forever. Even if you disband the task force it just sits there. It does not go away to a shipyard nor does it heal itself. Am I missing something? There appears to be no discussion of this topic in the manual either.

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Sid
Post #: 1
Re: Ship Repair - 5/27/2002 7:25:42 PM   
Sultanofsham

 

Posts: 728
Joined: 4/20/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sid
[B]How do ships get repaired? A ship not badly damaged can sail to a port -- or even to an entry port (Truk, Noumea, Brisbane) - but then what? It appears to just sit there forever. Even if you disband the task force it just sits there. It does not go away to a shipyard nor does it heal itself. Am I missing something? There appears to be no discussion of this topic in the manual either. [/B][/QUOTE]


First disband the taskforce, then click on the anchor symbol. It'll bring up a ship list. Find the damaged ship and click on its name. It'll bring up the ship discription and at the bottom (if at Truk/Noumea) you'll have a button to send it back to Japan/Pearl.

You can disband in any port size 3 (i think) or bigger and just leave the ship there and it will be repaired over time (floatation much much quicker than system damage). The bigger the port the better chance of repairs each turn.

(in reply to Sid)
Post #: 2
- 5/28/2002 12:31:08 AM   
AlvinS

 

Posts: 665
Joined: 12/2/2000
From: O'Fallon, Missouri
Status: offline 		In the long campaign #17 I sent a damged Surface combat TF to Cairns for repair. I disbanded the TF their and they seemed to repair themselves in a fairly short amout of time. Mainly the floatation damage was fixed. For system repair I sent them to Noumea.

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AlvinS

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Post #: 3
Re: Ship Repair - 5/28/2002 1:21:19 AM   
Reiryc

 

Posts: 4991
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sid
[B]How do ships get repaired? A ship not badly damaged can sail to a port -- or even to an entry port (Truk, Noumea, Brisbane) - but then what? It appears to just sit there forever. Even if you disband the task force it just sits there. It does not go away to a shipyard nor does it heal itself. Am I missing something? There appears to be no discussion of this topic in the manual either. [/B][/QUOTE]

Check page 91 of the manual on informtion about repairs....

Reiryc

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Post #: 4
- 5/28/2002 9:02:21 AM   
FirstPappy


Posts: 744
Joined: 9/12/2000
From: NY, USA
Status: offline 		Page 91 basically says that all "Ports" repair damage with bigger ones doing it better than smaller ones. I had 2 CVs "anchored" in Truk for about 10 straight days and the Sys damage of 6 and 8 they had didn't budge at all. I suspect the original poster is seeing the same thing.

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Post #: 5
Major shipyards. - 5/28/2002 10:20:48 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		In 1942, Japan only had major shipyards and repair facilities in Empire waters (Japan, Korea etc). The Allies were basically Cockatoo Island Shipyard in Australia, Pearl Harbor, and the US mainland. No real advanced shipyards existed which could permanently repair and refit ships at this time. Floatation is one thing and can be temporarily shored up afloat and in a minor port, but major hull, engineering, and systems damage needed quite a while in dockyard hands. Minneapolis, New Orleans,and Pensacola needed around six months to repair the damage suffered as Tassaforonga.

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Post #: 6
Update - 5/28/2002 12:55:25 PM   
FirstPappy


Posts: 744
Joined: 9/12/2000
From: NY, USA
Status: offline 		The Sys damage on those CVs in Truk finally went down by 2 each after about 30 days or so. So repair to ships Sys works. It's just very, very slowwwwwwww...............

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Post #: 7
- 5/28/2002 2:47:10 PM   
iancollins

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 12/26/2001
From: Southern England
Status: offline 		I haven't yet seen any consistent pattern in the repair (reduction of Sys points) of ships. Some examples from my game:

CV Lexington (Sys=17) into Noumea 24 May. Reduced to 16 on 20 Jun. Still at 16 on 25 Jun.
CA Australia (Sys=32) into Brisbane 28 May. Reduced to 22 by 25 Jun.
CL Hobart (Sys=21) into Brisbane 28 May. Reduced to 7 by 25 Jun.

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Post #: 8
Repairs don't seem consistant - 5/30/2002 1:07:39 AM   
neuromancer


Posts: 627
Joined: 5/30/2002
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I've seen ships repair themselves from red or orange damage levels in both systems and floatation fairly quickly. But once they get to green they seem to be stuck and never repair the minor damage (which seems a tad backwards).

I've also seen a few ships which took forever to do anything.

In my current game, Lexington barely limped back to port (Noumea), and put in for repairs. I disbanded her TF, but I swear her floatation damage got WORSE. So I immediately (next turn) formed a new TF with her and her escorts, and she is now slowly repairing.

I didn't know I could send her back to Pearl for major repairs. But after losing Yorktown she is my only carrier (except a CVE with no planes) so I'm rather reluctant to send her away, so I probably won't anyway.

Meanwhile some damaged cruisers are sitting in Brisbane being patched up. Again, slow but steady repair.

On the opposite side of the coin, just to confuse the issue, is a couple small patrol task forces in a brand new port in the Solomons [1(2)]. Some Gunboats were badly mauled in a surface battle with a Jap convoy (although the convoy is now cluttering up the bottom of some nameless harbour), and although the port they are in is pretty marginal, they are actually repairing.

It's all very odd.

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Post #: 9
Re: Repairs don't seem consistant - 5/30/2002 12:47:26 PM   
Supervisor

 

Posts: 5166
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by neuromancer
[B]I've seen ships repair themselves from red or orange damage levels in both systems and floatation fairly quickly. But once they get to green they seem to be stuck and never repair the minor damage (which seems a tad backwards).

I've also seen a few ships which took forever to do anything.

In my current game, Lexington barely limped back to port (Noumea), and put in for repairs. I disbanded her TF, but I swear her floatation damage got WORSE. So I immediately (next turn) formed a new TF with her and her escorts, and she is now slowly repairing.

I didn't know I could send her back to Pearl for major repairs. But after losing Yorktown she is my only carrier (except a CVE with no planes) so I'm rather reluctant to send her away, so I probably won't anyway.

Meanwhile some damaged cruisers are sitting in Brisbane being patched up. Again, slow but steady repair.

On the opposite side of the coin, just to confuse the issue, is a couple small patrol task forces in a brand new port in the Solomons [1(2)]. Some Gunboats were badly mauled in a surface battle with a Jap convoy (although the convoy is now cluttering up the bottom of some nameless harbour), and although the port they are in is pretty marginal, they are actually repairing.

It's all very odd. [/B][/QUOTE]
Much easier to repair small ships than it is big ships (like carriers).

As for the Lex gaining even more floatation damage in port, it happens. Many times they can control the flooding and start repairing the floatation damage, but there are times when the damage is too severe and the ship sinks. Putting her in a TF probably didn't change anything. I've had a tanker, several AP's & several PC's sink after getting in to port. In one case, the AP was hit while unloading. It survived long enough to unload all the troops, and then sank. Good ship :D.

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Post #: 10
he is right - 5/30/2002 2:30:08 PM   
Sid

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Washington and Alaska
Status: offline 		Yes, ships can get worse, esp. in bad weather, or if the watch is inattentive to sprung seam flooding. Damage control is not entirely a science, and a ship has hundreds or even thousands of spaces you cannot even get into. In a yard, you cut your way in. It is dangerous to weld in those places - no ventilation - and a navy duty is to go down into one with a welder to haul him out if he is overcome. If YOU are overcome first, and he cannot see you behind him passing out, you both die!

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Sid

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Post #: 11
The Repair of the Yorktown - 5/30/2002 5:07:25 PM   
Wilhammer

 

Posts: 449
Joined: 5/24/2002
From: Out in the Sticks of Rockingham County, North Caro
Status: offline 		Will UV do this?

After Coral Sea, the damage assesment for the Yorktown was that she would be repaired in 90 days.

When she stopped in Pearl, they put a BIG repair crew on her around the clock for 3 days, and emerged ready to fight Midway.

So, does a port have so many repair "assets" that it needs to spread about, or do ships just get fixed at a certain rate in certain ports?

In other words, does the number of ships seeking repair in a port influence how quickly they get repaired?

====================

Yes, you guessed it, I would like to micro-manage my repair crews, if any exist.

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Post #: 12
More Repairs - 5/30/2002 10:53:22 PM   
neuromancer


Posts: 627
Joined: 5/30/2002
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I've noticed that in the long run being in or out of a TF doesn't make any difference. They repair slowly, and that is that.

I've also noticed that if you have replacements scheduled, you might as well send crippled ships to a major port (outside the game area) because the reinforcements will show up before these guys repair.

But one problem, I cannot send anyone home!

Poor old Lex is sitting in harbour having patched all the flooding, and her radar is back online, but she has fixed all of two system points! So she still has 59 system damage, and a top speed of 13, I don't want to risk her in combat (losing the Yorktown was bad enough, I have yet to deal any seriously hard blows to the Japs, although a couple of their cruisers and carriers have taken a pounding, and I tossed them off a small island).

Finally Enterprise and Hornet showed up, and with the little CVE loitering behind them to provide CAP (hopefully she will be ignored by the Japs), they are sailing out to have a word with some cruisers that have been making Tokyo Express runs on Port Moseby (the cheek!)

So I figured I may as well return my more damaged ships - including Lex - to Pearl for repair. But I cannot! The 'return to Pearl' switch is greyed out.

Any ideas?

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Post #: 13
No returns... - 5/30/2002 11:08:42 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Neuromancer,

Returns are disabled in the shorter scenarios. The reason for this is that victory points for damaged ships are awarded in these scenarios and those will be removed if the ship leaves the theater. In the shorter scenarios, severely damaged ships pretty much ride out the rest of the duration in the best in-theater port facility.

I believe that there is an advantage in repair time to putting a ship in port (no TF) but it may be small enough to be difficult to notice. Of course, I don't recommend this at any port within enemy air range.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 14
Smaller Scenerio? - 5/31/2002 1:32:22 AM   
neuromancer


Posts: 627
Joined: 5/30/2002
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Yeep, I thought May to December of '42 was a longer scenerio myself.

Building up to the grand campaign.


So poor old Lexington is just going to sit there forever, maybe sometime around October or November she might finally be in good enough shape to return to the fray. Hard on an old warrior to have to sit out the action - especially most of May when I really needed her!

May as well transfer her planes to Guatacanal where they can do some good.

Same with my battered surface fleet (did something very dumb with them, and paid the price). They might be ready for the end game.


Oh well, I'm learning. Good thing I wasn't Supreme Commander Pacific, or Japan might still be Imperial Japan!

:D


I have been using Noomea and Brisbane as my major ports, the Japs haven't gone anywhere near them.

(in reply to Sid)
Post #: 15
- 5/31/2002 3:04:44 AM   
Dunedain

 

Posts: 224
Joined: 4/4/2000
Status: offline 		Erik,

What's the benefit of keeping a ship that is under repair in a port
in a TF? Does it mean that all the ships in the TF will protect each
other with their combined AA fire, and they won't protect each
other if they are not in a TF and are attacked by enemy aircraft?

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Post #: 16
Docked TFs vs. Anchored In Port - 5/31/2002 3:19:32 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Docked TFs expend some fuel every turn to keep themselves ready to steam. They can maneuver if an air attack comes in and they will defend themselves just as if attacked at sea. In other words, you can't catch them by surprise (much).

Anchored ships that are simply in the port list are completely immobile and would need enough time to be able to move that they are essentially static targets. They will contribute their AAA fire to the defense of any attack on the port, but they are MUCH easier to hit (think Pearl Harbor) than ships that are underway.

Regards,

- Erik

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

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Post #: 17
- 5/31/2002 10:08:45 AM   
Dunedain

 

Posts: 224
Joined: 4/4/2000
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info., Erik. :)

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Post #: 18
Good news for Lexington - 5/31/2002 3:59:00 PM   
Sid

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Washington and Alaska
Status: offline 		If you had read the early part of this thread with understanding, you would know how to send Lex back to Pearl. Just go to the port (Noumea or Brisbane) and disband her task force. Click on the anchor symbol in the full display for that port - beside it are the words "ships in port" or something like that. Up comes a ship list of all ships. Click on that ships name and all her particulars come on the screen. At the bottom is a button for send it home (in the case of the enemy it says "Send back to Japan" so I assume yours says something similar). [I am a Japan specialist and I don't want to know too much about the other side.]

Now about poor Yorktown. First of all, they didn't really have her "ready" for Midway. She sailed unable to recover aircraft! Yard workers were on board and they did manage to get her slightly more fixed - so she could recover - before it was critical. But she was a really messed up ship. And this was done at Pearl Harbor, a very special place. Few places in the world had the resources to manage that, and NONE of them are on our game map!!! Japan might manage it at Yokosuka or Kure, for example. The USA might at Philidelphia, or Newport News, or Pearl, or MAYBE Long Beach. [Then, not now]. And it would freeze many other ship repairs if it was done. The proxcimity of the battle and the repair yard was a unique event in history and should not be part of our game in this remote place. In fact, Yorktown was damaged ON our map and was NOT fixed in 3 days - she had to sail all the way to Pearl first!

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Sid

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Post #: 19
I had read that - 6/2/2002 5:23:43 AM   
neuromancer


Posts: 627
Joined: 5/30/2002
From: Canada
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]If you had read the early part of this thread with understanding, you would know how to send Lex back to Pearl[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes:

I had read that, and it isn't exactly a complex concept. And it still didn't work.

However, as Erik pointed out, you cannot do that in the shorter scenerios, which explains why it didn't work. In the longer scenerio I later started, it worked just fine.

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Post #: 20
Endurance levels - 6/2/2002 11:06:33 AM   
rhohltjr


Posts: 536
Joined: 4/27/2000
From: When I play pacific wargames, I expect smarter AI.
Status: offline 		I am noticeing in my game some of my ships 'Endurance' aka fuel and bullets level in the 'RED', but when I disband the task force the ships are put back into the port(Brisbane or Nomura) but their Endurance level is still RED? None of the ships has over 3 or 4 points of system damage, and when I form a new task force with these sick ships the Endurance is never put back to green. This is in Brisbane and Nomura so fuel level at those bases is never a problem.

What gives? Any of you guys see this? Anyone? Hello!!!

:eek:

If this is in the Manual, I haven't found it yet.

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Post #: 21
- 6/2/2002 11:45:11 AM   
FirstPappy


Posts: 744
Joined: 9/12/2000
From: NY, USA
Status: offline 		I've seen the same thing too. An easy workaround is to "Fuel TF from Port" either before you disband or after you create them in a TF.

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Post #: 22
Yeah, that works.... - 6/3/2002 7:29:22 PM   
rhohltjr


Posts: 536
Joined: 4/27/2000
From: When I play pacific wargames, I expect smarter AI.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pappy
[B]I've seen the same thing too. An easy workaround is to "Fuel TF from Port" either before you disband or after you create them in a TF. [/B][/QUOTE]

OK,..My bad. This was not a problem. Fuel TF from Port makes this go away. :D

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Post #: 23
Re: No returns... - 6/3/2002 7:46:36 PM   
rhohltjr


Posts: 536
Joined: 4/27/2000
From: When I play pacific wargames, I expect smarter AI.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Erik Rutins
[B]Neuromancer,

Returns are disabled in the shorter scenarios. The reason for this is that victory points for damaged ships are awarded in these scenarios and those will be removed if the ship leaves the theater. In the shorter scenarios, severely damaged ships pretty much ride out the rest of the duration in the best in-theater port facility.

I believe that there is an advantage in repair time to putting a ship in port (no TF) but it may be small enough to be difficult to notice. Of course, I don't recommend this at any port within enemy air range.

Regards,

- Erik [/B][/QUOTE]

Erik, I am playing a May 1st 42' to Dec 31st 43' scenario called 'MO' or sumsuch and my send to Pearl button is greyed out too. Currently only in July 1942. :confused:

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Post #: 24
My thought - 6/3/2002 10:53:40 PM   
neuromancer


Posts: 627
Joined: 5/30/2002
From: Canada
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Erik, I am playing a May 1st 42' to Dec 31st 43' scenario called 'MO' or sumsuch and my send to Pearl button is greyed out too. Currently only in July 1942. [/QUOTE]

I'm not sure what they consider a longer scenerio (obviously the May - July to December '43 count as longer), but May to Dec of '42 is shorter.

Actually...

There may be a way of telling. Don't quote me on this, but I noticef that the Long Campaign doesn't have points for damaged ships, but the shorter ones do. So check the Intel screen. If there is a line for damaged Allied and Japanesed ships and points (usually zero for your opponent - with FOW on until the end), then you cannot send ships back to Pearl/ Japan. If there is no line, then you can.

Why? Because as Erik said, points are given for damaged ships in the shorter scenerios, whereas they aren't in the longer campaigns.

In fact, that is what he said:
[QUOTE]Returns are disabled in the shorter scenarios. The reason for this is that victory points for damaged ships are awarded in these scenarios and those will be removed if the ship leaves the theater[/QUOTE]

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Post #: 25
Willhammer - 6/4/2002 8:32:44 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Remember Yorktown received only one major bomb hit at Coral Sea. The ship could still operate her aircraft. A single IJN bomb hit would not often cause a CV to lose operational status. I believe the ability of Yorktown to fight at Midway after quick repairs is modelled somewhat by allowing players to use a damaged ship operationally.

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Post #: 26
Re: My thought - 6/4/2002 10:07:19 PM   
rhohltjr


Posts: 536
Joined: 4/27/2000
From: When I play pacific wargames, I expect smarter AI.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by neuromancer
[B]

Actually...

There may be a way of telling. Don't quote me on this, but I noticef that the Long Campaign doesn't have points for damaged ships, but the shorter ones do. So check the Intel screen. If there is a line for damaged Allied and Japanesed ships and points (usually zero for your opponent - with FOW on until the end), then you cannot send ships back to Pearl/ Japan. If there is no line, then you can.

Why? Because as Erik said, points are given for damaged ships in the shorter scenerios, whereas they aren't in the longer campaigns.

In fact, that is what he said:
[/B][/QUOTE]

When someone is right they're right. However :rolleyes: I :rolleyes: was wrong. I thought I was playing the long campaign from May 42 through Dec 43.:o

(in reply to Sid)
Post #: 27
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