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RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/9/2009 3:16:59 AM

paulderynck

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

A revised version based on yesterday's forum feedback. Since this screen shot was taken I have widened the space for showing the die rolls, so the 7 no longer drops down to the next line.

Why is the Impulse Track and End of Turn info shown here? The number to end the turn could change every time weather is rolled and you don't even know the weather until after initiative is determined. Likewise the weather report (unless it displays the modified weather chart for the current turn). Seems to me that stuff should be in a separate "informational" form that a player can call up anytime during his impulse. It is of no assistance when performing the Initiative Stage.

It might also help to add the warning that if you request a reroll, the Initiative Track marker will be adjusted before it is resolved.

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Paul

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Post #: 1741

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/9/2009 4:59:22 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

A revised version based on yesterday's forum feedback. Since this screen shot was taken I have widened the space for showing the die rolls, so the 7 no longer drops down to the next line.

Why is the Impulse Track and End of Turn info shown here? The number to end the turn could change every time weather is rolled and you don't even know the weather until after initiative is determined. Likewise the weather report (unless it displays the modified weather chart for the current turn). Seems to me that stuff should be in a separate "informational" form that a player can call up anytime during his impulse. It is of no assistance when performing the Initiative Stage.

It might also help to add the warning that if you request a reroll, the Initiative Track marker will be adjusted before it is resolved.

One form for multiple purposes.

During a turn, if you are thinking about passing, you might want to look at this form. In fact, you might want to examine it before choosing your actions for an impulse. having separate forms would make the player go to two places to get all the information. Well, actually to three. This design does require him to go the the weather report separately.
---
Good point about the change in the initiative after requesting a re-roll.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 1742

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/9/2009 9:23:25 AM

paulderynck

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

One form for multiple purposes.

During a turn, if you are thinking about passing, you might want to look at this form. In fact, you might want to examine it before choosing your actions for an impulse. having separate forms would make the player go to two places to get all the information. Well, actually to three. This design does require him to go the the weather report separately.
---
Good point about the change in the initiative after requesting a re-roll.

I guess I didn't understand why the Initiative Stage form would (could?) be called up during an impulse. In that case all the portion for Initiative resolution would not be of much use other than as a reminder of where the track is at - and the buttons for Initiative have to be disabled except when appropriate. Maybe it would be better to have the turn-end info and weather report combined in an info form and the Initiative separate?

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Post #: 1743

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/9/2009 6:46:24 PM

Froonp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
It took me awhile to get around to this. Here are Vichy French units with the naval units all done with similar striping. I'll eventually get around to removing the thin edging of darker blue/lavender around the air and naval units as they appear on the map. The Flyouts show the units the way I would like them to appear.

Looks good to me.
Perfection would be that the land units be the same too, but isn't perfection an elusive goal ?

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Post #: 1744

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/9/2009 6:48:51 PM

Froonp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

A revised version based on yesterday's forum feedback. Since this screen shot was taken I have widened the space for showing the die rolls, so the 7 no longer drops down to the next line.

Why is the Impulse Track and End of Turn info shown here? The number to end the turn could change every time weather is rolled and you don't even know the weather until after initiative is determined. Likewise the weather report (unless it displays the modified weather chart for the current turn). Seems to me that stuff should be in a separate "informational" form that a player can call up anytime during his impulse. It is of no assistance when performing the Initiative Stage.

It might also help to add the warning that if you request a reroll, the Initiative Track marker will be adjusted before it is resolved.

I for one LOVE to see the Impulse Track and Initiative Track here.
I don't know if it is the right place, but it is a pleasure to see it graphicaly.

One point of improvement would be to highlight the current impulse on the Impulse Track.

(in reply to paulderynck)

Post #: 1745

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/9/2009 6:53:27 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

One form for multiple purposes.

During a turn, if you are thinking about passing, you might want to look at this form. In fact, you might want to examine it before choosing your actions for an impulse. having separate forms would make the player go to two places to get all the information. Well, actually to three. This design does require him to go the the weather report separately.
---
Good point about the change in the initiative after requesting a re-roll.

I guess I didn't understand why the Initiative Stage form would (could?) be called up during an impulse. In that case all the portion for Initiative resolution would not be of much use other than as a reminder of where the track is at - and the buttons for Initiative have to be disabled except when appropriate. Maybe it would be better to have the turn-end info and weather report combined in an info form and the Initiative separate?

Maybe. 6 of one and a half dozen of the other I think. The current weather report does give the probability of the turn ending, but it doesn't show the impulse track. The impulse track provides more information visually, which might be easier for some players to understand.

The interface design could use 1, 2, or 3 forms for Initiative, Impulse, and Weather, since WIF has important interrelationships between all 3. Using 1 strikes me as an overly complicated form. 3 strikes me as too much fragmentation. If we go with 2 forms, then there are three possibilities, and the current design uses one of those.

I have no overwhelming reason for the current design - other than that it is already coded.

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Post #: 1746

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/9/2009 7:00:14 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

A revised version based on yesterday's forum feedback. Since this screen shot was taken I have widened the space for showing the die rolls, so the 7 no longer drops down to the next line.

Why is the Impulse Track and End of Turn info shown here? The number to end the turn could change every time weather is rolled and you don't even know the weather until after initiative is determined. Likewise the weather report (unless it displays the modified weather chart for the current turn). Seems to me that stuff should be in a separate "informational" form that a player can call up anytime during his impulse. It is of no assistance when performing the Initiative Stage.

It might also help to add the warning that if you request a reroll, the Initiative Track marker will be adjusted before it is resolved.

I for one LOVE to see the Impulse Track and Initiative Track here.
I don't know if it is the right place, but it is a pleasure to see it graphicaly.

One point of improvement would be to highlight the current impulse on the Impulse Track.

Yeah, about the highlighting, ...

I wrote code to do just that, but the visual component will only do it if you mouse click on the line. Executing a mouse click on a line from within the code is non-trivial. Also, I don't want the player to be able to change the highlighted line with a mouse click (though that is what happens presently). So the component I am presently using has two problems: I can't highlight what I want, and the user can change the highlighting so it is incorrect.

What this means is I have to find another component that does do what I want. I know which one that is, but it will take some more messing around to do the conversion. I'll get to it eventually, just not today.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 1747

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/10/2009 4:17:41 PM

Anendrue

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If I am misunderstanding something here my apologies.
Instead of widening the form why not place the Allied and Axis die rolls as follows:

Current Initiative: Allied
Bonus if re-rolled: None
Allied Die Roll: 10
Axis Die Roll: 7

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Post #: 1748

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/10/2009 6:18:31 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: abj9562

If I am misunderstanding something here my apologies.
Instead of widening the form why not place the Allied and Axis die rolls as follows:

Current Initiative: Allied
Bonus if re-rolled: None
Allied Die Roll: 10
Axis Die Roll:�� 7

Widening the space for the text only required a few pixels - it didn't affect anything other than a single line of text.

There are situations where a long text message is required, which is why the spacing seems unusual. Also, once the intitiative has been finalized, I show that in the lower portion of the form.

Almost all the forms could be beautified more, but at a certain point I just stop and go on to morre important things.

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Steve

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Post #: 1749

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/12/2009 3:47:39 AM

Grapeshot Bob

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

A revised version based on yesterday's forum feedback. Since this screen shot was taken I have widened the space for showing the die rolls, so the 7 no longer drops down to the next line.

This is a really swell idea. It will help me keep a few important things straight and all in one tight form.

GSB

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Post #: 1750

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/12/2009 7:53:04 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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There are 22 new MWIF screen shots viewable in Games Under Development - accessible from Matrix Games home.

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Post #: 1751

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/12/2009 8:07:08 PM

gridley

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From: Caledon
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It really is lookin' good.

Thanks for the heads up.

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Post #: 1752

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/30/2009 4:05:10 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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I have been working on the Training Videos this week. So far I have completed chapters 1 - 5, which leaves 6 more to do. The first 5 pretty much go through the Picture and Text tutorials, and even though I skipped over some stuff they still run to 1 hour and 52 minutes.

I am guessing that each of the remaining chapters will be in the range of 20-30 minutes. Those will cover the Main form, informational forms, screen layouts and map views. Since they will all involve me moving the cursor around on the map and clicking on stuff, I am thinking they will go somewhat faster, but then they might go slower.

For screen layouts I have come up with 3 to show off the feature. Here is the starting First Game.SLY (i.e., screen layout) for the Commonwealth.

Attachment (1)

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 1753

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/30/2009 4:08:12 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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If you click on the label Sea Areas in the screen layout list (upper right corner of the previous page) the entire screen is transformed to this. I could develop another screen layout with a different set of sea areas displayed. These were selected because they have convoys running through the Atlantic Ocean.

Attachment (1)

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 1754

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/30/2009 4:10:45 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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Third and last in series.

If you then click on the screen layout Ports, it brings up this screen layout, whcih shows the Naval Review Summary and Details forms. Clicking on any port or sea area in the Summary form, changes the Details form so it presents the units in the port/sea aea you clicked on.

Attachment (1)

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 1755

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/30/2009 4:26:31 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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For your information:
=======
Training Videos
(as of June 29, 2009)

Chapter 1 Introduction (4 minutes :10 seconds)
1.1 Opening screen
1.1.1 Layout
1.1.2 Restoring a saved game
1.2 Tutorial 1 - Starting a game
1.2.1 General layout of a tutorial page (page 1)
1.2.2 WIF FE => MWIF
1.2.3 Unified world map

Chapter 2 Map Basics (20:27)
2.1 Tutorial 2 - Countries
2.1.1 Axis major powers (pages 1, 3, 5)
2.1.2 Allied major powers (pages 2, 4, 6, 8, 9, 7)
2.1.3 Minor countries & territories (pages 10, 11, 12, 13)
2.1.4 Subcountries & objective hexes (pages 14, 15)
2.2 Tutorial 3 - Map
2.2.1 Hex terrain (pages, 1, 2, 3, 11)
2.2.2 Hex icons (pages 6, 7, 13)
2.2.3 Hexside terrain (pages 4, 5, 8, 12)
2.2.4 Sea areas (pages 10, 9

Chapter 3 Unit Basics (28:27)
3.1 Tutorial 4 - Land Units
3.1.1 Unit review form (pages 1, 2)
3.1.2 Land unit types (pages 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)
3.1.3 High & medium resolution (pages 8, 9)
3.2 Tutorial 5 - Naval Units
3.2.1 Naval combat unit types (pages 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 13, 14)
3.2.2 Naval transports (page 6)
3.2.3 Convoys (page 8)
3.2.4 Naval task forces (pages 9, 10, 11, 12)
3.3 Tutorial 6 - Air Units
3.3.1 Air unit types (pages 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 11, 12, 13)
3.3.2 Annual improvements (pages 7, 8)
3.3.3 High & medium resolution (pages 9, 10)

Chapter 4 Sequence of Play (33:56)
4.1 Tutorial 10 - Sequence of Play
4.1.1 Turns, impulses, & starting a new game (pages 2, 3)
4.1.2 New turn & new impulse (pages 4, 5, 6)
4.1.3 Naval air assignments and air missions in general (page 7)
4.1.4 Naval movement & combat (pages 8, 9, 10)
4.1.5 Independent air missions (page 11)
4.1.6 Land movement & combat (pages 12, 13, 14, 15)
4.1.7 End of impulse and turn (pages 16, 17, 18, 19)

Chapter 5 Turns, Impulses, Weather, & Supply (25:28)
5.1 Tutorial 7 - Turns, Impulses, & Weather
5.1.1 Weather zones (page 1, 3, 4)
5.1.2 Weather on the detailed & global maps (pages 5, 6, 7)
5.1.3 Weather roll effect on impulses and turns (pages 10, 11)
5.2 Tutorial 9 - Supply
5.2.1 Basic supply path (pages 1, 2, 4, 5)
5.2.2 Overseas supply path (pages 6, 8)
5.2.3 Railway supply path (pages 11, 10, 12, 13)

Chapter 6 Main Form, Screen Layouts, & Map Views

Chapter 7 Starting a New Game & Setting Up Units

Chapter 8 Land Movement & Combat

Chapter 9 Naval Movement & Combat

Chapter 10 Air Movement & Combat

Chapter 11 Production & Politics

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 1756

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/30/2009 7:18:39 AM

L�tzow

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Can you put subtitles on your videos please? Makes it easier to understand for us who don't have English as first language.

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Post #: 1757

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/30/2009 7:57:06 AM

Greywolf

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Hum, I was noticing all thoses granite-textured windows background... And I wonder, is it an option to have plain color instead ? Thoses mixed-colors produce a lot of "noise" around writtings and make the windows a bit painfull to look at for long time and harder to read (especially noticable with the CW with white writings on mixed blueish background). Perhaps it is a Jpeg compression problem from the screen-shot, but the more I watch in-game pics, the more I am noticing this effect...

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Post #: 1758

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/30/2009 8:28:08 AM

Caquineur

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quote:

ORIGINAL: L�tzow
Can you put subtitles on your videos please? Makes it easier to understand for us who don't have English as first language.

I second that, for the same reason - and also for the deaf and hard of hearing people.

Plus, if there are subtitles, they could even be translated (even if it's after the initial release, and it could be some fans' work - provided Matrix and Steve allow it, of course)

(in reply to L�tzow)

Post #: 1759

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/30/2009 10:20:11 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: L�tzow

Can you put subtitles on your videos please? Makes it easier to understand for us who don't have English as first language.

Probably not.

1 - It would be a lot of work. Notice that the first 5 chapters ran to almost 2 hours.

2 - The Training Videos cover pretty much the same ground as the Tutorials. In fact, if anything, the tutorials are more detailed. If you prefer to read rather than listen, then the tutorials are the better choice. The first 10 tutorials have text alongside each picture (which is why I call them the Picture & Text tutorials). The second 10 tutorials (Interactive) have text describing what to do (mouse and keyboard actions) and what happens when you perform those actions. In the Training Videos that correspond to the Interactive tutorials, you get to watch me move the mouse, etc. If you go through the Interactive tutorials yourself, you get to move the mouse, etc., which is a better way to learn.

3 - In the videos, I do not speak fast and I intentionally insert pauses within the video. That is to let the listener absorb the meaning of what I have just said, and to use his eyes to understand the words. This shouldn't be the equivalent of listening to a radio announcer read the news.

4 - I intend for the Traiing Videos to be use mainly by players who have never played a game of WIF and want to see what it is all about. People who have purchased the game and want to learn it in detail, might use the Training Videos to gain enough familiarity with MWIF to jump into playing a gmae. But if you are new to WIF and want to play MWIF at all seriously, then you will need to go through the tutorials (at a minimum) and probably spend a lot of time with the Players Manual too.

5 - This is not to say that subtitles aren't a good suggestion. It's just that I do not feel the benefit justifies the time and effort they would require (sorry).

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 1760

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/30/2009 10:26:33 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greywolf

Hum, I was noticing all thoses granite-textured windows background... And I wonder, is it an option to have plain color instead ? Thoses mixed-colors produce a lot of "noise" around writtings and make the windows a bit painfull to look at for long time and harder to read (especially noticable with the CW with white writings on mixed blueish background). Perhaps it is a Jpeg compression problem from the screen-shot, but the more I watch in-game pics, the more I am noticing this effect...

This falls into the category of WIF Design kit, which is not part of MWIF product 1.

I have been pretty careful about the contrast between text and the background. For instance, I changed from 'Regular' font to Bold for all that text you were reading (white on textured blue). For anything that looks like a table, I use black text (or navy blue) against a white background.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 1761

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/30/2009 11:35:07 AM

Froonp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
5 - This is not to say that subtitles aren't a good suggestion. It's just that I do not feel the benefit justifies the time and effort they would require (sorry).

There are experts out there on the Internet, that can subtitle a 50 mn episode of an american serie in a night. I'm sure there will be people doing the subtitles spontaneously.

If the AVI files are read with Windows Media Player, the subtitle file (SRT or SUB, I don't remember) just have to have the same name, and the subtitles will appear automaticaly in Windows Media Player. If the AVI files are read from within the game, I don't know.

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Post #: 1762

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/30/2009 12:01:11 PM

Froonp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
For screen layouts I have come up with 3 to show off the feature. Here is the starting First Game.SLY (i.e., screen layout) for the Commonwealth.

These 3 screen layout look great.
Maybe you can copy them for each scenario ?

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 1763

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/30/2009 6:18:47 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
5 - This is not to say that subtitles aren't a good suggestion. It's just that I do not feel the benefit justifies the time and effort they would require (sorry).

There are experts out there on the Internet, that can subtitle a 50 mn episode of an american serie in a night. I'm sure there will be people doing the subtitles spontaneously.

If the AVI files are read with Windows Media Player, the subtitle file (SRT or SUB, I don't remember) just have to have the same name, and the subtitles will appear automaticaly in Windows Media Player. If the AVI files are read from within the game, I don't know.

I am following Matrix Games standards for the format for the Training Videos: WMV, 1024 by 768. I believe Matrix plans on doing additional processing of my WMV files to place them within a 1280 by 1024 frame, (or maybe that is just what the Windows Media Player does).

The Training Videos will not be accessible from within the program. The Picture & Text Tutorials already are. I doubt that the Interactive Tutorials will be accessible from within the program since they require restoring a saved game. It would be a lot of overhead to save the player's current game, bring in the saved game for the interactive tutorial, and then later restore the player's game where he left off.

There is a ton of help available when playing the game: context sensitive help on the form/phase/subphase of the game, Rules as Coded document, and the Players Manual. If all that information is inadequate for helping the player figure out what is going on in the game, well, then he needs a lot of help, and not just for playing MWIF.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 1764

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/30/2009 6:20:50 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
For screen layouts I have come up with 3 to show off the feature. Here is the starting First Game.SLY (i.e., screen layout) for the Commonwealth.

These 3 screen layout look great.
Maybe you can copy them for each scenario ?

Something for the beta testers to develop.

I still need to finish incorporating what they have given me for the default map views

(7 scenarios done, 4 left to do).

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 1765

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/30/2009 8:13:18 PM

JonBrave

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Hi Steve,

I realise this is wildly off-topic! Saw the screenshot above which has "Naval Review Summary". Don't you think the table rows would be easier to read, as well looking smarter, if you had a style for alternating-background-color for the grid? I assume there are many similar tables. Yes, I know it's way too late, just a suggestion

< Message edited by JonBrave -- 6/30/2009 8:14:26 PM >

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Post #: 1766

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 6/30/2009 10:35:23 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JonBrave

Hi Steve,

I realise this is wildly off-topic! Saw the screenshot above which has "Naval Review Summary". Don't you think the table rows would be easier to read, as well looking smarter, if you had a style for alternating-background-color for the grid? I assume there are many similar tables. Yes, I know it's way too late, just a suggestion

Yes, I agree.

But I am trying to work with existing components rather than develop special ones just for MWIF. The current libraries I have do not offer that feature. I could put in lines, ...

I'll take a look-see at that. My apprehension is that it will make the form too 'busy'.

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Steve

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Post #: 1767

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/2/2009 10:46:29 AM

JonBrave

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Quite understand; there was a chance your libraries just had that available as a Style with a single simple setting, if indeed that table is a single "grid" control (which maybe it isn't!).

Just to conclude the convo, if you did ever decide to do it, may I recommend that you would go for alternating where one row is exactly as is now (i.e. nothing special/different) while the other one just has the palest of backgrounds (pastel gray or blue or similar). That is very easy on the eye without making it look "busy" like a strong color would, as you say.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: JonBrave

Hi Steve,

I realise this is wildly off-topic! Saw the screenshot above which has "Naval Review Summary". Don't you think the table rows would be easier to read, as well looking smarter, if you had a style for alternating-background-color for the grid? I assume there are many similar tables. Yes, I know it's way too late, just a suggestion

Yes, I agree.

But I am trying to work with existing components rather than develop special ones just for MWIF. The current libraries I have do not offer that feature. I could put in lines, ... I'll take a look-see at that. My apprehension is that it will make the form too 'busy'.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 1768

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/2/2009 3:27:32 PM

Bradley62

Posts: 153
Joined: 6/29/2006
Status: offline

Have not played WIF but am fascinated about taking this on. Any chance you could post some condensed training videos on Youtube. More exposure.

(in reply to JonBrave)

Post #: 1769

RE: MWIF Game Interface Design - 7/2/2009 6:02:57 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley62

Have not played WIF but am fascinated about taking this on. Any chance you could post some condensed training videos on Youtube. More exposure.

I'll mention it to Dave and Erik, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

YouTube has very low resolution which is especially damaging to achieving one of the goals of the training video: impressing people with the quality of the game. If the graphics look abysmal, or are so distorted that you can't read the numbers on the units, well, that sort of defeats the whole purpose. But this decision is up to Matrix Games - not me.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Bradley62)

Post #: 1770