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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 7:01:35 PM

bobogoboom

Posts: 3799
Joined: 2/13/2006
From: Dallas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Interesting link...
Interim report on the accident on 1st June 2009 to the Airbus A330-203 registered F-GZCP operated by Air France flight AF 447 Rio de Janeiro � Paris

http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2009/f-cp090601e1.en/pdf/f-cp090601e1.en.pdf

Yeah, "visual examination showed that the airplane was not destroyed in flight; it appears to have struck the surface of the sea in a straight line with high vertical acceleration." From altitude, that would take some time; time enough for most to realize what was going to happen.

Damn ... what a tragedy.

Yes... that's the most important info from the document... they deducted it from the compression of parts they discovered... also interesing info about automacic messages...

Great tragedy...

Leo "Apollo11"

hopefully they were all out by this time. i think they are going to have trouble piecing together what happened unless they can find the black boxes.

_____________________________

I feel like I'm Han Solo, and you're Chewie, and she's Ben Kenobi, and we're in that bar.
Member Texas Thread Mafia.

Sig art by rogueusmc

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 26911

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 7:28:10 PM

bobogoboom

Posts: 3799
Joined: 2/13/2006
From: Dallas
Status: offline

now this is a classy lady
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Granny-Pimps-Family-For-Green-Cards-Cash.html

_____________________________

I feel like I'm Han Solo, and you're Chewie, and she's Ben Kenobi, and we're in that bar.
Member Texas Thread Mafia.

Sig art by rogueusmc

(in reply to bobogoboom)

Post #: 26912

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 7:53:09 PM

JWE

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom
now this is a classy lady
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Granny-Pimps-Family-For-Green-Cards-Cash.html

What a load of hooey! This is the American entrepreneural spirit. Fraud, what's fraud? Some bozo marries a bimbo, she gets a green card ... wtf? I know some lawyers that can help her out some - get some alimony money, set herself up ... hey, this is the American dream. The market takes care of stuff like this. Why go wailing on some granny that just wants to make some cash? Sigh ...

_____________________________

Home of DaBabes

(in reply to bobogoboom)

Post #: 26913

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 8:00:34 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Interesting link...
Interim report on the accident on 1st June 2009 to the Airbus A330-203 registered F-GZCP operated by Air France flight AF 447 Rio de Janeiro � Paris

http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2009/f-cp090601e1.en/pdf/f-cp090601e1.en.pdf

Yeah, "visual examination showed that the airplane was not destroyed in flight; it appears to have struck the surface of the sea in a straight line with high vertical acceleration." From altitude, that would take some time; time enough for most to realize what was going to happen.

Damn ... what a tragedy.

Yes... that's the most important info from the document... they deducted it from the compression of parts they discovered... also interesing info about automacic messages...

Great tragedy...

hopefully they were all out by this time. i think they are going to have trouble piecing together what happened unless they can find the black boxes.

Few questions for Martin and the rest of you guys...

Why modern civilian aircraft still rely on pitot tubes and static ports for speed readings (IAS, TAS) and altitude?

Was there any civilian aircraft that used radar as a tool to measure speed over surface and altitude?

Why aren't modern GPS devices used as (backup) speed indicators and altitude in civilian aircraft?

Leo "Apollo11"

P.S. [Edit]
Fixed sighted typos.

< Message edited by Apollo11 -- 7/2/2009 8:03:10 PM >

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to bobogoboom)

Post #: 26914

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 8:09:30 PM

JWE

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Interesting link...
Interim report on the accident on 1st June 2009 to the Airbus A330-203 registered F-GZCP operated by Air France flight AF 447 Rio de Janeiro � Paris

http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2009/f-cp090601e1.en/pdf/f-cp090601e1.en.pdf

Yeah, "visual examination showed that the airplane was not destroyed in flight; it appears to have struck the surface of the sea in a straight line with high vertical acceleration." From altitude, that would take some time; time enough for most to realize what was going to happen.

Damn ... what a tragedy.

Yes... that's the most important info from the document... they deducted it from the compression of parts they discovered... also interesing info about automacic messages...

Great tragedy...

hopefully they were all out by this time. i think they are going to have trouble piecing together what happened unless they can find the black boxes.

Few questions for Martin and the rest of you guys...

Why modern civilian aircraft still only rely on pitot tubes for speed readings (IAS, TAS)?

Was there any civilian aircraft that used radar as a tool to meassure speed over surface?

Why aren't modern GPS devices used as (backup) speed indicators in civilian aircraft?

Leo "Apollo11"

Speed in the air has to be measured relative to the conditions where you are at. Speed over ground is ok, but if you are flying against a 100 kt headwind, SOG don't help much. Thus GPS or inertial systems just help determine location, not VMG.

Conditions within your bubble change minute by minute. You need something that gives an "in bubble" referant. For airplanes, it's an integral pitot. We got the same kind of thing for sailboats; gotta think local, not global.

_____________________________

Home of DaBabes

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 26915

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 8:18:45 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Interesting link...
Interim report on the accident on 1st June 2009 to the Airbus A330-203 registered F-GZCP operated by Air France flight AF 447 Rio de Janeiro � Paris

http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2009/f-cp090601e1.en/pdf/f-cp090601e1.en.pdf

Yeah, "visual examination showed that the airplane was not destroyed in flight; it appears to have struck the surface of the sea in a straight line with high vertical acceleration." From altitude, that would take some time; time enough for most to realize what was going to happen.

Damn ... what a tragedy.

Yes... that's the most important info from the document... they deducted it from the compression of parts they discovered... also interesing info about automacic messages...

Great tragedy...

hopefully they were all out by this time. i think they are going to have trouble piecing together what happened unless they can find the black boxes.

Few questions for Martin and the rest of you guys...

Why modern civilian aircraft still only rely on pitot tubes for speed readings (IAS, TAS)?

Was there any civilian aircraft that used radar as a tool to meassure speed over surface?

Why aren't modern GPS devices used as (backup) speed indicators in civilian aircraft?

Speed in the air has to be measured relative to the conditions where you are at. Speed over ground is ok, but if you are flying against a 100 kt headwind, SOG don't help much. Thus GPS or inertial systems just help determine location, not VMG.

Conditions within your bubble change minute by minute. You need something that gives an "in bubble" referant. For airplanes, it's an integral pitot. We got the same kind of thing for sailboats; gotta think local, not global.

I know that... but the "outside of the local bubble" backup devices would also be nice to check things when problems happen (i.e. malfunctions in pitot tubes and static ports)...

Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to JWE)

Post #: 26916

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 8:26:17 PM

gladiatt

Posts: 2576
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11
Hi all,

Interesting link...
Interim report on the accident on 1st June 2009 to the Airbus A330-203 registered F-GZCP operated by Air France flight AF 447 Rio de Janeiro � Paris
http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2009/f-cp090601e1.en/pdf/f-cp090601e1.en.pdf
Leo "Apollo11"

Yeah, "visual examination showed that the airplane was not destroyed in flight; it appears to have struck the surface of the sea in a straight line with high vertical acceleration." From altitude, that would take some time; time enough for most to realize what was going to happen.

Damn ... what a tragedy.

Wow...i've just learned one of my collegue know a young couple among the casualties . The child of this couple is still in holliday with his aunt, and nobody told him what happend because nobody know how to do it.
Know, each time we ear a plane or someone talk about some plane, his eyes stare in the "empty" (sorry about bad english)....i feel pain for her, but how to give support??????

_____________________________

(in reply to JWE)

Post #: 26917

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 8:33:13 PM

thegreatwent

Posts: 3011
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline

Early parole and a long weekend ahead of me.

Life is good.

_____________________________

(in reply to gladiatt)

Post #: 26918

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 8:41:13 PM

thegreatwent

Posts: 3011
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline

quote:

Wow...i've just learned one of my collegue know a young couple among the casualties . The child of this couple is still in holliday with his aunt, and nobody told him what happend because nobody know how to do it.
Know, each time we ear a plane or someone talk about some plane, his eyes stare in the "empty" (sorry about bad english)....i feel pain for her, but how to give support??????

Gladiatt your tale is tragic. My opinion is that this child will now need the love of many people and a strong constitution to just go on. I will certainly pray that this boy manages to overcome this disaster.

Don't worry about your English it is better than my German and Bulgarian. I can express simple things in those languages but there is often frustration or bemusement involved.

_____________________________

(in reply to thegreatwent)

Post #: 26919

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 9:08:12 PM

JWE

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11
I know that... but the "outside of the local bubble" backup devices would also be nice to check things when problems happen (i.e. malfunctions in pitot tubes and static ports)...

Leo "Apollo11"

Dude, I understand your question. Thing is SOG, VOG, VMG is extremely hard to conceptualize. There's update times, and GPS doesn't give vectors, just SOG. Now flying into a headwind gives a high airspeed, but a nominal SOG. If the headwind suddenly goes shear, or to a tailwind, and if it's prompt, you can't rely on a GPS stick shaker, it's too late. You have to rely on the on-board instrumentation.

Same thing happens on sailboats, but slower, and without the 200 passenger manifest. I mean, **** happens suddenly, and without warning, and if if you see it over your shoulder, maybe you can make something out of it; otherwise, it's tack, jibe, change the headsail, whatever. For airplanes, things happen so very quickly, that by the time a GPS says "you are below stall speed", the poor bastard is already stalled, inverted and augering in.

Sailboat racers have learned, long ago, to take GPS data with a grain of salt. It is truly true, that you must play local.

_____________________________

Home of DaBabes

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 26920

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 9:10:02 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thegreatwent

Early parole and a long weekend ahead of me.

Life is good.

Ditto!

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to thegreatwent)

Post #: 26921

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 9:15:18 PM

Mynok

Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline

Double ditto!

_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

(in reply to USSAmerica)

Post #: 26922

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 9:15:51 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Same thing happens on sailboats, but slower, and without the 200 passenger manifest. I mean, **** happens suddenly, and without warning, and if if you see it over your shoulder, maybe you can make something out of it; otherwise, it's tack, jibe, change the headsail, whatever. For airplanes, things happen so very quickly, that by the time a GPS says "you are below stall speed", the poor bastard is already stalled, inverted and augering in.

Sailboat racers have learned, long ago, to take GPS data with a grain of salt. It is truly true, that you must play local.

Hey John, speaking of sailing, it looks like were going to be taking Basic Keelboat and Basic Coastal Cruising courses with this guy on his 52' Irwin:

http://www.learnsailing.com/sailingschool.html

It's a bigger boat than we anticipated, but that just means more opportunity to learn, right?

Any thoughts, ideas, or suggestions for us, from your vast experience?

We are also going to be living aboard at the marina for 4 nights. No hotel expenses.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to JWE)

Post #: 26923

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 9:16:39 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok

Double ditto!

Dude, in that case, I had better send this email off to you.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Mynok)

Post #: 26924

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 9:22:30 PM

AW1Steve

Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Interesting link...
Interim report on the accident on 1st June 2009 to the Airbus A330-203 registered F-GZCP operated by Air France flight AF 447 Rio de Janeiro � Paris

http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2009/f-cp090601e1.en/pdf/f-cp090601e1.en.pdf

Yeah, "visual examination showed that the airplane was not destroyed in flight; it appears to have struck the surface of the sea in a straight line with high vertical acceleration." From altitude, that would take some time; time enough for most to realize what was going to happen.

Damn ... what a tragedy.

Yes... that's the most important info from the document... they deducted it from the compression of parts they discovered... also interesing info about automacic messages...

Great tragedy...

Leo "Apollo11"

hopefully they were all out by this time. i think they are going to have trouble piecing together what happened unless they can find the black boxes.

If they haven't recovered the "black boxes" (they are not) by now, it's pretty unlikely. The "pinger" is only good for a couple of weeks in most cases.

_____________________________

(in reply to bobogoboom)

Post #: 26925

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 9:28:34 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

And isn't the plane sitting in 3,000 feet of water?

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to AW1Steve)

Post #: 26926

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 9:31:17 PM

AW1Steve

Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Interesting link...
Interim report on the accident on 1st June 2009 to the Airbus A330-203 registered F-GZCP operated by Air France flight AF 447 Rio de Janeiro � Paris

http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2009/f-cp090601e1.en/pdf/f-cp090601e1.en.pdf

Yeah, "visual examination showed that the airplane was not destroyed in flight; it appears to have struck the surface of the sea in a straight line with high vertical acceleration." From altitude, that would take some time; time enough for most to realize what was going to happen.

Damn ... what a tragedy.

Yes... that's the most important info from the document... they deducted it from the compression of parts they discovered... also interesing info about automacic messages...

Great tragedy...

hopefully they were all out by this time. i think they are going to have trouble piecing together what happened unless they can find the black boxes.

Few questions for Martin and the rest of you guys...

Why modern civilian aircraft still only rely on pitot tubes for speed readings (IAS, TAS)?

Was there any civilian aircraft that used radar as a tool to meassure speed over surface?

Why aren't modern GPS devices used as (backup) speed indicators in civilian aircraft?

Leo "Apollo11"

Speed in the air has to be measured relative to the conditions where you are at. Speed over ground is ok, but if you are flying against a 100 kt headwind, SOG don't help much. Thus GPS or inertial systems just help determine location, not VMG.

Conditions within your bubble change minute by minute. You need something that gives an "in bubble" referant. For airplanes, it's an integral pitot. We got the same kind of thing for sailboats; gotta think local, not global.

Absolutely true. To which I might add , what makes you think RADAR is all that accurate? Inertial? Both systems measye errors in +/- miles! GPS? Only as good as the computer that makes the calculations. There is a very effective check for a problem with the pitot tube. Another pitot tube! As with all things in aviation, Redundancy is life! The aircraft I used to ride in had 4. (One for each pilot, one for the aircraft and one for the navigator). And you never use just one inertial (you have two or more checking each other). The pitot is the oldest, and yet most reliable system going. Just because somethings old, doesn't mean it's not reliable (or some would say the best). Another example is the compass. We have Gyro, and the old fashion magnetic. Every aircraft has them (and most boats too). And they still work (assuming the user properly compensates for and uses it).

_____________________________

(in reply to JWE)

Post #: 26927

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 9:35:16 PM

AW1Steve

Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Same thing happens on sailboats, but slower, and without the 200 passenger manifest. I mean, **** happens suddenly, and without warning, and if if you see it over your shoulder, maybe you can make something out of it; otherwise, it's tack, jibe, change the headsail, whatever. For airplanes, things happen so very quickly, that by the time a GPS says "you are below stall speed", the poor bastard is already stalled, inverted and augering in.

Sailboat racers have learned, long ago, to take GPS data with a grain of salt. It is truly true, that you must play local.

Hey John, speaking of sailing, it looks like were going to be taking Basic Keelboat and Basic Coastal Cruising courses with this guy on his 52' Irwin:

http://www.learnsailing.com/sailingschool.html

It's a bigger boat than we anticipated, but that just means more opportunity to learn, right? Any thoughts, ideas, or suggestions for us, from your vast experience?

We are also going to be living aboard at the marina for 4 nights. No hotel expenses.

Good boat shoes (I like Sperry topsiders) and a ball cap that the color is fast (dye won't run when wet)!Sounds like really great fun. A GOOD windbreaker, lot's and lot's of sunscreen.

_____________________________

(in reply to USSAmerica)

Post #: 26928

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 9:36:39 PM

AW1Steve

Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

And isn't the plane sitting in 3,000 feet of water?

With robotic and other submersibles , that's not as problem if they want it bad enough. It's the cost of recovery that will be daunting.

_____________________________

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 26929

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 9:36:53 PM

JWE

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gladiatt
Wow...i've just learned one of my collegue know a young couple among the casualties . The child of this couple is still in holliday with his aunt, and nobody told him what happend because nobody know how to do it.
Know, each time we ear a plane or someone talk about some plane, his eyes stare in the "empty" (sorry about bad english)....i feel pain for her, but how to give support??????

I am so sorry. I too have lost people. Light a candle; or maybe have a requiem Mass. Invite your friend, let them know you care, even if it's just the 2 of you. The priests won't care if you kneel or not, but it's a cathartic experience. Afterwards, you can talk about the things that need to be talked about. Hold them. Let them weep. To weep is to be human.

_____________________________

Home of DaBabes

(in reply to gladiatt)

Post #: 26930

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 9:44:48 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

And isn't the plane sitting in 3,000 feet of water?

With robotic and other submersibles , that's not as problem if they want it bad enough. It's the cost of recovery that will be daunting.

Yeah...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to AW1Steve)

Post #: 26931

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 9:55:31 PM

JWE

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America
Hey John, speaking of sailing, it looks like were going to be taking Basic Keelboat and Basic Coastal Cruising courses with this guy on his 52' Irwin:

http://www.learnsailing.com/sailingschool.html

It's a bigger boat than we anticipated, but that just means more opportunity to learn, right? Any thoughts, ideas, or suggestions for us, from your vast experience?

We are also going to be living aboard at the marina for 4 nights. No hotel expenses.

My friend, sailing is a life experience. I have nothing to say, except relax, take things as they come, on their own terms. Coastal Cruising on an Irwin '52 sounds absolutely sweet.

_____________________________

Home of DaBabes

(in reply to USSAmerica)

Post #: 26932

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 10:03:38 PM

anarchyintheuk

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline

Happy hour. Stay classy San Diego.

(in reply to JWE)

Post #: 26933

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 10:04:54 PM

HMS Resolution

Posts: 350
Joined: 1/10/2007
Status: offline

In about fifteen hours, my girlfriend and I will be heading up to Traverse City. I should not be this excited about going to Traverse City.

_____________________________

(in reply to JWE)

Post #: 26934

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 10:11:46 PM

AW1Steve

Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

And isn't the plane sitting in 3,000 feet of water?

With robotic and other submersibles , that's not as problem if they want it bad enough. It's the cost of recovery that will be daunting.

Yeah...

Then again , if I were the CEO of Airbus, with two crashes this week , and a real slooooow sales season, I'd consider it essential to prove that my planes were safe. With the French government and French Navy on my side, I'd make it happen.

_____________________________

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 26935

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 10:21:45 PM

Dixie

Posts: 10303
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
Status: offline

Evening chaps. My head hurts

I managed to smash it on an engine cowling (again) 8 hours ago

_____________________________

Bigger boys stole my sig

(in reply to AW1Steve)

Post #: 26936

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 10:28:00 PM

AW1Steve

Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

Evening chaps.� My head hurts�� I managed to smash it on an engine cowling (again) 8 hours ago� �

Oweeeeeeeee!

Have some beer! Beer , single malt scitch and duct tape can fin almost anything! But not in that order!

_____________________________

(in reply to Dixie)

Post #: 26937

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 10:31:57 PM

Dixie

Posts: 10303
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

Few questions for Martin and the rest of you guys...

Why modern civilian aircraft still rely on pitot tubes and static ports for speed readings (IAS, TAS) and altitude?

Was there any civilian aircraft that used radar as a tool to measure speed over surface and altitude?

Why aren't modern GPS devices used as (backup) speed indicators and altitude in civilian aircraft?

Leo "Apollo11"

P.S. [Edit]
Fixed sighted typos.

As well as what the other guys have posted I'll try and add in a little of what I know, but pitot statics and the like are avionics based and I've only had a very basic training in that area. Plus I've not worked on anything except 1960s/70s airliners

GPS cannot give you your true airspeed, in theory an aircraft flying into a big enough headwind could have a groundspeed of 0mph across the earth but an effective airspeed of Mach 1. An aircarft's speed is best desribed as the rate of airflow over the wings and using pitot pressure is the best way to do it. In a similar idea to the first point, an aircraft with a strong enough tailwind could in theory stall due to a lack of airlow across the wings even though it's being pushed along at several hundred miles an hour.
I believe that radio altimeters were used on aircraft that were expected to fly low and fast, that's probably the closest you'd get to a radar based height detection system.

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 10:32:52 PM

Dixie

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ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

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ORIGINAL: Dixie

Evening chaps.� My head hurts�� I managed to smash it on an engine cowling (again) 8 hours ago� �

Oweeeeeeeee! Have some beer! Beer , single malt scitch and duct tape can fin almost anything! But not in that order!

I don't drink. And cocodomol isn't helping

Never mind, I'll just sleep it off and feel better in the morning

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/2/2009 10:36:46 PM

bobogoboom

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ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Happy hour. Stay classy San Diego.

3 day weekend comming up and i am still working

. id say hit up the barley house while the smu kids are still gone.

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