Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz?

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz?

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? - 7/11/2009 8:15:02 AM

TommyBoy84

Posts: 105
Joined: 2/22/2008
Status: offline

Hey guys,

I've never tried producing, nor even seen mention on the forums of the Japanese G5N Liz. According to the specs, it has very good range and top-notch payload...as far as Japanese bombers go at least.

Is this plane worth pursuing? What has happened when you've tried? The only downside I can think of is the drain on engines (it takes 4) and the supplies needed to convert factories.

Post #: 1

RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? - 7/11/2009 9:01:26 AM

ChezDaJez

Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TommyBoy84

Hey guys,

I've never tried producing, nor even seen mention on the forums of the Japanese G5N Liz. According to the specs, it has very good range and top-notch payload...as far as Japanese bombers go at least.

Is this plane worth pursuing? What has happened when you've tried? The only downside I can think of is the drain on engines (it takes 4) and the supplies needed to convert factories.

It can be worth pursuing but understand that it is only slightly better than the G4M series in regards to protection. Unlike the allied 4Es, you cannot send these out to bomb land targets unescorted so this will limit its range to that of your available fighters. Use them only in areas where you have air superiority. Even then, they will take heavy losses if enemy fighters get through to them.

Also remember, this plane is expensive for Japan to build. It takes twice as many engines. You can build 2 Bettys or 2 Francis' bombers when available for every Liz. I much prefer the Francis over the Liz despite its more limited bomb load.

I have 4 daitais of Liz'. They enjoyed earlier success but rapid attrition forced me to withdraw them from combat. I couldn't keep up with the losses.

Chez

_____________________________

Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

(in reply to TommyBoy84)

Post #: 2

RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? - 7/11/2009 9:38:14 AM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TommyBoy84

Hey guys,

I've never tried producing, nor even seen mention on the forums of the Japanese G5N Liz. According to the specs, it has very good range and top-notch payload...as far as Japanese bombers go at least.

Is this plane worth pursuing? What has happened when you've tried? The only downside I can think of is the drain on engines (it takes 4) and the supplies needed to convert factories.

Yes. I usd them for hunting subs, they will do a lot off damage. I never produced that many just enough for three Daitai for ASW. I did initial try them as normal LB but found them to be to vunerable and with four engines expensive.

(in reply to TommyBoy84)

Post #: 3

RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? - 7/11/2009 2:41:48 PM

viberpol

Posts: 838
Joined: 10/20/2005
From: Gizycko, Poland, EU
Status: offline

Well, I play the latest CHS scenario, can produce Lizies but can't find the daitai with possibility to upgrade Betty to Liz...

_____________________________

Przy lackim orle, przy koniu Kiejstuta Archanioł Rusi na proporcach błysł

(in reply to Chris21wen)

Post #: 4

RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? - 7/11/2009 2:56:56 PM

Historiker

Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

there are two G4M units that can upgrade. Once done, all other Navy units can.

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to viberpol)

Post #: 5

RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? - 7/11/2009 3:01:47 PM

viberpol

Posts: 838
Joined: 10/20/2005
From: Gizycko, Poland, EU
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

there are two G4M units that can upgrade. Once done, all other Navy units can.

OK thanks, I've just found that I need to start from G1 & G2 Takao daitais.
It seems that after upgrading the first one, other daitais are Liz-able.
Interesting..

_____________________________

Przy lackim orle, przy koniu Kiejstuta Archanioł Rusi na proporcach błysł

(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 6

RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? - 7/11/2009 3:06:57 PM

thegreatwent

Posts: 3011
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline

quote:

Hey guys,

I've never tried producing, nor even seen mention on the forums of the Japanese G5N Liz. According to the specs, it has very good range and top-notch payload...as far as Japanese bombers go at least.

Is this plane worth pursuing? What has happened when you've tried? The only downside I can think of is the drain on engines (it takes 4) and the supplies needed to convert factories.

Feuer Krieg has has some good luck with them in his AAR "Rising Sun Over the Rockies". Check it out, I think he has three groups outfitted with Liz and uses them to occasionally flatten airfields.

_____________________________

(in reply to viberpol)

Post #: 7

RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? - 7/11/2009 3:28:58 PM

jwilkerson

Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline

The one CHS game I played to 1944 - I used them on ASW - and they were so powerful my opponent made me agree to a house rule prohibiting such use!!

_____________________________

AE Project Lead
New Game Project Lead

(in reply to thegreatwent)

Post #: 8

RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? - 7/11/2009 4:16:52 PM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

I use them quite a bit myself. The bomb load alone makes them great for attacking troop formations. They are also quite durable, though they are sorely lacking in defensive armament. Make sure you can escort them in areas with enemy fighters.

Two things to remember though. 1 Liz = 4 Zero's due to using the same engine, and do not replace all your G4Ms with Liz, cause Liz can't carry torpedos. I generally convert 3-4 Daitai to Liz, and no more.

< Message edited by Shark7 -- 7/11/2009 4:17:19 PM >

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to jwilkerson)

Post #: 9

RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? - 7/11/2009 4:56:26 PM

Feinder

Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline

As an Allied player, I'll vouch that the Liz is fairly awesome on ASW (provided they have exp).

I really can't deploy subs beyond my own B-24 range, because, if the Jap base isn't in range of B-24s (and thus pulverized), it's teaming with Liz which can pop subs out to about 10 - 15 hexes.

Pretty nasty stuff.
-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 10

RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? - 7/12/2009 6:04:04 AM

Feltan

Posts: 1160
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline

Convert two datai's of Betty's to Liz. Divide them, and use the six elements for ASW work. You can cover a whole lot of ocean with those six elements, and they are fairly effective.

Regards,
Feltan

(in reply to Feinder)

Post #: 11

RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? - 7/12/2009 10:10:41 AM

Dili

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline

I suppose it has a lots of bombs...

(in reply to Feltan)

Post #: 12

RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? - 7/12/2009 4:56:41 PM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

I suppose it has a lots of bombs...

8000 lbs bomb load, comparable to the B-17.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Dili)

Post #: 13

RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? - 7/12/2009 8:57:05 PM

Dili

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline

It is related but i didn't mean the weight. I meant the bomb quantity. It is known that WITP and i suppose AE will be the same can't handle a bomber w/many bombs - the game engine apparently test the chance for each bomb when in reality what happens is that when a bomb hits all other bombs get less chance since the plane is moving unless the ship is moving in same direction. If the person that edited it put for example 16*500lb, it is probably the case.

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 14

RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? - 7/12/2009 10:36:42 PM

bilbow

Posts: 741
Joined: 8/22/2002
From: Concord NH
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

As an Allied player, I'll vouch that the Liz is fairly awesome on ASW (provided they have exp).�

I really can't deploy subs beyond my own B-24 range, because, if the Jap�base isn't in range of B-24s (and thus pulverized), it's teaming with Liz which can pop subs out to about 10 - 15 hexes.

Pretty nasty stuff.
-F-

Their base bombload (CHS 156) is 4x500KG bombs, so when they hit a sub, it hurts. Ask the skipper of the SS Rock. No, wait, you can't. He drowned.

They are too fragile given their expense to use as regular bombers, especially given the limits on the IJN replacement pilots. I experimented with them in a bomber role earlier in the game, and the results weren't worth the losses. They are effective in an ASW role which, since our game is into 1944, will become important to my survival.

_____________________________

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile- hoping it will eat him last
- Winston Churchill

(in reply to Feinder)

Post #: 15

RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? - 7/13/2009 12:50:55 AM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bilbow

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

As an Allied player, I'll vouch that the Liz is fairly awesome on ASW (provided they have exp).�

I really can't deploy subs beyond my own B-24 range, because, if the Jap�base isn't in range of B-24s (and thus pulverized), it's teaming with Liz which can pop subs out to about 10 - 15 hexes.

Pretty nasty stuff.
-F-

Their base bombload (CHS 156) is 4x500KG bombs, so when they hit a sub, it hurts. Ask the skipper of the SS Rock. No, wait, you can't. He drowned.

They are too fragile given their expense to use as regular bombers, especially given the limits on the IJN replacement pilots. I experimented with them in a bomber role earlier in the game, and the results weren't worth the losses. They are effective in an ASW role which, since our game is into 1944, will become important to my survival.

Actually I've found them to be quite durable in my games. I have 4 squadrons all at 92+ XP now and they get near daily use. And I have used them in front line attacks on fighter defended bases (but always with escort). Basically I've cut their range back to 10 hexes to match my Zero's. Either they're better than people think or I'm really, really lucky. And it is better to be lucky than good.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to bilbow)

Post #: 16

RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? - 7/13/2009 7:46:35 AM

FeurerKrieg

Posts: 3397
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline

I like them, they do seem more survivable than G4M series. And although expensive, I tend to look at it as getting twice the bomb load for 1 pilot at risk.

I don't use them often, just when there is an opening, and never unescorted if I can help it. They are the only thing IJN has that can really do some damage to an airfield. ASW is great use as well.

_____________________________

Upper portion used with permission of www.subart.net, copyright John Meeks

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 17

RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? - 7/13/2009 8:37:09 PM

Barb

Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: bilbow

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

As an Allied player, I'll vouch that the Liz is fairly awesome on ASW (provided they have exp).�

I really can't deploy subs beyond my own B-24 range, because, if the Jap�base isn't in range of B-24s (and thus pulverized), it's teaming with Liz which can pop subs out to about 10 - 15 hexes.

Pretty nasty stuff.
-F-

Their base bombload (CHS 156) is 4x500KG bombs, so when they hit a sub, it hurts. Ask the skipper of the SS Rock. No, wait, you can't. He drowned.

They are too fragile given their expense to use as regular bombers, especially given the limits on the IJN replacement pilots. I experimented with them in a bomber role earlier in the game, and the results weren't worth the losses. They are effective in an ASW role which, since our game is into 1944, will become important to my survival.

Actually I've found them to be quite durable in my games. I have 4 squadrons all at 92+ XP now and they get near daily use. And I have used them in front line attacks on fighter defended bases (but always with escort). Basically I've cut their range back to 10 hexes to match my Zero's. Either they're better than people think or I'm really, really lucky. And it is better to be lucky than good.

That has something to do with Napoleon.. Was it he who said something about Lucky general to be prefered over the good general?

_____________________________

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 18

RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? - 7/16/2009 11:25:01 AM

vinnie71

Posts: 964
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

Napoleon first used to ask if a general was good. Invariably the second question would be: "is he lucky?"

or so it is said...

(in reply to Barb)

Post #: 19

RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? - 8/10/2009 10:02:17 PM

viberpol

Posts: 838
Joined: 10/20/2005
From: Gizycko, Poland, EU
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

there are two G4M units that can upgrade. Once done, all other Navy units can.

The funny thing is that after I converted the Takao daitai back to Nells (for training), I cannot convert them again to Lizies...?

_____________________________

Przy lackim orle, przy koniu Kiejstuta Archanioł Rusi na proporcach błysł

(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 20

Page: [1]

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz?

Page: [1]