Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (Full Version)

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TommyBoy84 -> Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (7/11/2009 8:15:02 AM)

Hey guys,

I've never tried producing, nor even seen mention on the forums of the Japanese G5N Liz. According to the specs, it has very good range and top-notch payload...as far as Japanese bombers go at least.

Is this plane worth pursuing? What has happened when you've tried? The only downside I can think of is the drain on engines (it takes 4) and the supplies needed to convert factories.



ChezDaJez -> RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (7/11/2009 9:01:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TommyBoy84

Hey guys,

I've never tried producing, nor even seen mention on the forums of the Japanese G5N Liz. According to the specs, it has very good range and top-notch payload...as far as Japanese bombers go at least.

Is this plane worth pursuing? What has happened when you've tried? The only downside I can think of is the drain on engines (it takes 4) and the supplies needed to convert factories.


It can be worth pursuing but understand that it is only slightly better than the G4M series in regards to protection. Unlike the allied 4Es, you cannot send these out to bomb land targets unescorted so this will limit its range to that of your available fighters. Use them only in areas where you have air superiority. Even then, they will take heavy losses if enemy fighters get through to them.

Also remember, this plane is expensive for Japan to build. It takes twice as many engines. You can build 2 Bettys or 2 Francis' bombers when available for every Liz. I much prefer the Francis over the Liz despite its more limited bomb load.

I have 4 daitais of Liz'. They enjoyed earlier success but rapid attrition forced me to withdraw them from combat. I couldn't keep up with the losses.

Chez



Chris21wen -> RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (7/11/2009 9:38:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TommyBoy84

Hey guys,

I've never tried producing, nor even seen mention on the forums of the Japanese G5N Liz. According to the specs, it has very good range and top-notch payload...as far as Japanese bombers go at least.

Is this plane worth pursuing? What has happened when you've tried? The only downside I can think of is the drain on engines (it takes 4) and the supplies needed to convert factories.


Yes. I usd them for hunting subs, they will do a lot off damage. I never produced that many just enough for three Daitai for ASW. I did initial try them as normal LB but found them to be to vunerable and with four engines expensive.



viberpol -> RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (7/11/2009 2:41:48 PM)

Well, I play the latest CHS scenario, can produce Lizies but can't find the daitai with possibility to upgrade Betty to Liz... [&:]




Historiker -> RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (7/11/2009 2:56:56 PM)

there are two G4M units that can upgrade. Once done, all other Navy units can.



viberpol -> RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (7/11/2009 3:01:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

there are two G4M units that can upgrade. Once done, all other Navy units can.

OK thanks, I've just found that I need to start from G1 & G2 Takao daitais.
It seems that after upgrading the first one, other daitais are Liz-able.
Interesting.. [X(]



thegreatwent -> RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (7/11/2009 3:06:57 PM)

quote:

Hey guys,

I've never tried producing, nor even seen mention on the forums of the Japanese G5N Liz. According to the specs, it has very good range and top-notch payload...as far as Japanese bombers go at least.

Is this plane worth pursuing? What has happened when you've tried? The only downside I can think of is the drain on engines (it takes 4) and the supplies needed to convert factories.


Feuer Krieg has has some good luck with them in his AAR "Rising Sun Over the Rockies". Check it out, I think he has three groups outfitted with Liz and uses them to occasionally flatten airfields.



jwilkerson -> RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (7/11/2009 3:28:58 PM)

The one CHS game I played to 1944 - I used them on ASW - and they were so powerful my opponent made me agree to a house rule prohibiting such use!!
[:D]



Shark7 -> RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (7/11/2009 4:16:52 PM)

I use them quite a bit myself. The bomb load alone makes them great for attacking troop formations. They are also quite durable, though they are sorely lacking in defensive armament. Make sure you can escort them in areas with enemy fighters.

Two things to remember though. 1 Liz = 4 Zero's due to using the same engine, and do not replace all your G4Ms with Liz, cause Liz can't carry torpedos. I generally convert 3-4 Daitai to Liz, and no more.



Feinder -> RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (7/11/2009 4:56:26 PM)

As an Allied player, I'll vouch that the Liz is fairly awesome on ASW (provided they have exp). 

I really can't deploy subs beyond my own B-24 range, because, if the Jap base isn't in range of B-24s (and thus pulverized), it's teaming with Liz which can pop subs out to about 10 - 15 hexes.

Pretty nasty stuff.
-F-



Feltan -> RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (7/12/2009 6:04:04 AM)

Convert two datai's of Betty's to Liz. Divide them, and use the six elements for ASW work. You can cover a whole lot of ocean with those six elements, and they are fairly effective.

Regards,
Feltan



Dili -> RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (7/12/2009 10:10:41 AM)

I suppose it has a lots of bombs...



Shark7 -> RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (7/12/2009 4:56:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

I suppose it has a lots of bombs...


8000 lbs bomb load, comparable to the B-17.



Dili -> RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (7/12/2009 8:57:05 PM)

It is related but i didn't mean the weight. I meant the bomb quantity. It is known that WITP and i suppose AE will be the same can't handle a bomber w/many bombs - the game engine apparently test the chance for each bomb when in reality what happens is that when a bomb hits all other bombs get less chance since the plane is moving unless the ship is moving in same direction. If the person that edited it put for example 16*500lb, it is probably the case.



bilbow -> RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (7/12/2009 10:36:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

As an Allied player, I'll vouch that the Liz is fairly awesome on ASW (provided they have exp). 

I really can't deploy subs beyond my own B-24 range, because, if the Jap base isn't in range of B-24s (and thus pulverized), it's teaming with Liz which can pop subs out to about 10 - 15 hexes.

Pretty nasty stuff.
-F-


Their base bombload (CHS 156) is 4x500KG bombs, so when they hit a sub, it hurts. Ask the skipper of the SS Rock. No, wait, you can't. He drowned. [:D]

They are too fragile given their expense to use as regular bombers, especially given the limits on the IJN replacement pilots. I experimented with them in a bomber role earlier in the game, and the results weren't worth the losses. They are effective in an ASW role which, since our game is into 1944, will become important to my survival.



Shark7 -> RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (7/13/2009 12:50:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bilbow


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

As an Allied player, I'll vouch that the Liz is fairly awesome on ASW (provided they have exp). 

I really can't deploy subs beyond my own B-24 range, because, if the Jap base isn't in range of B-24s (and thus pulverized), it's teaming with Liz which can pop subs out to about 10 - 15 hexes.

Pretty nasty stuff.
-F-


Their base bombload (CHS 156) is 4x500KG bombs, so when they hit a sub, it hurts. Ask the skipper of the SS Rock. No, wait, you can't. He drowned. [:D]

They are too fragile given their expense to use as regular bombers, especially given the limits on the IJN replacement pilots. I experimented with them in a bomber role earlier in the game, and the results weren't worth the losses. They are effective in an ASW role which, since our game is into 1944, will become important to my survival.



Actually I've found them to be quite durable in my games. I have 4 squadrons all at 92+ XP now and they get near daily use. And I have used them in front line attacks on fighter defended bases (but always with escort). Basically I've cut their range back to 10 hexes to match my Zero's. Either they're better than people think or I'm really, really lucky. And it is better to be lucky than good. [:D]



FeurerKrieg -> RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (7/13/2009 7:46:35 AM)

I like them, they do seem more survivable than G4M series. And although expensive, I tend to look at it as getting twice the bomb load for 1 pilot at risk.

I don't use them often, just when there is an opening, and never unescorted if I can help it. They are the only thing IJN has that can really do some damage to an airfield. ASW is great use as well.



Barb -> RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (7/13/2009 8:37:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


quote:

ORIGINAL: bilbow


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

As an Allied player, I'll vouch that the Liz is fairly awesome on ASW (provided they have exp). 

I really can't deploy subs beyond my own B-24 range, because, if the Jap base isn't in range of B-24s (and thus pulverized), it's teaming with Liz which can pop subs out to about 10 - 15 hexes.

Pretty nasty stuff.
-F-


Their base bombload (CHS 156) is 4x500KG bombs, so when they hit a sub, it hurts. Ask the skipper of the SS Rock. No, wait, you can't. He drowned. [:D]

They are too fragile given their expense to use as regular bombers, especially given the limits on the IJN replacement pilots. I experimented with them in a bomber role earlier in the game, and the results weren't worth the losses. They are effective in an ASW role which, since our game is into 1944, will become important to my survival.



Actually I've found them to be quite durable in my games. I have 4 squadrons all at 92+ XP now and they get near daily use. And I have used them in front line attacks on fighter defended bases (but always with escort). Basically I've cut their range back to 10 hexes to match my Zero's. Either they're better than people think or I'm really, really lucky. And it is better to be lucky than good. [:D]


That has something to do with Napoleon.. Was it he who said something about Lucky general to be prefered over the good general?



vinnie71 -> RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (7/16/2009 11:25:01 AM)

Napoleon first used to ask if a general was good. Invariably the second question would be: "is he lucky?"

or so it is said...



viberpol -> RE: Any Jap Fanboys had experience with the G5N Liz? (8/10/2009 10:02:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

there are two G4M units that can upgrade. Once done, all other Navy units can.


The funny thing is that after I converted the Takao daitai back to Nells (for training), I cannot convert them again to Lizies...? [&:]



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