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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:15:24 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		I used to be such a sweet, sweet thing
Till they got a hold of me
I opened doors for little old ladies
I helped the blind to see
I got no friends 'cause they read the papers
They can't be seen with me
And I'm gettin' real shot down
And I'm feelin' mean

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Historiker)
Post #: 29011
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:15:31 PM   
Dixie


Posts: 10303
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

*snief*
We germans really had no luck with our battlefleet...

The first one went down in the Home Fleet's harbour and the other one... One went down because of the stunning incompetence of its commanding admiral, the other one waited long enough in the fjords to be finally sunk by planes, another one did a fair fight and sunk like a battleship should sink and finally the last one was put out of action with a single bomb hit and awaited the end of the war in harbour...



I will have to make a battleship-only mod for AE. Every single ship is replaced by a BB - I really love them!



I generally prefer cruisers.

Edited so that the post is about an actual ship type

< Message edited by Dixie -- 7/25/2009 10:17:33 PM >

_____________________________



Bigger boys stole my sig

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Post #: 29012
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:15:41 PM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

*snief*
We germans really had no luck with our battlefleet...

The first one went down in the Home Fleet's harbour and the other one... One went down because of the stunning incompetence of its commanding admiral, the other one waited long enough in the fjords to be finally sunk by planes, another one did a fair fight and sunk like a battleship should sink and finally the last one was put out of action with a single bomb hit and awaited the end of the war in harbour...



I will have to make a battleship-only mod for AE. Every single ship is replaced by a BB - I really love them!



Same here.




Remember Palembang!

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 29013
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:16:17 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		No offense, Historiker (Torsten, right?), but Germany should never have built a battlefleet in the first place. It only came about because the Kaiser had such a massive inferiority complex towards England.

Germany could have been a great power without a single battleship to its name, although I would have to say that it was good for Europe and the world (in the end) that she diverted so many resources towards shipbuilding.

Sort of like the old saying that Hitler was working FOR the Allies in the second half of WWII.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 29014
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:17:07 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

*snief*
We germans really had no luck with our battlefleet...

The first one went down in the Home Fleet's harbour and the other one... One went down because of the stunning incompetence of its commanding admiral, the other one waited long enough in the fjords to be finally sunk by planes, another one did a fair fight and sunk like a battleship should sink and finally the last one was put out of action with a single bomb hit and awaited the end of the war in harbour...



I will have to make a battleship-only mod for AE. Every single ship is replaced by a BB - I really love them!



I generally prefer cuisers.


A type of umbrella drink, IIRC...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Dixie)
Post #: 29015
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:17:35 PM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline
But when the smoke had cleared away the mighty Hood went down

(in reply to BrucePowers)
Post #: 29016
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:18:16 PM   
Dixie


Posts: 10303
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

*snief*
We germans really had no luck with our battlefleet...

The first one went down in the Home Fleet's harbour and the other one... One went down because of the stunning incompetence of its commanding admiral, the other one waited long enough in the fjords to be finally sunk by planes, another one did a fair fight and sunk like a battleship should sink and finally the last one was put out of action with a single bomb hit and awaited the end of the war in harbour...



I will have to make a battleship-only mod for AE. Every single ship is replaced by a BB - I really love them!



I generally prefer cuisers.


A type of umbrella drink, IIRC...


Well, drinks with umbrellas are classy

_____________________________



Bigger boys stole my sig

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 29017
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:18:34 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers


But when the smoke had cleared away the mighty Hood went down


They say this cat Shaft is a bad mother...

*SHUT YOUR MOUTH!*

I'm just talkin' 'bout Shaft...

*WE CAN DIG IT*

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to BrucePowers)
Post #: 29018
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:19:00 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

*snief*
We germans really had no luck with our battlefleet...

The first one went down in the Home Fleet's harbour and the other one... One went down because of the stunning incompetence of its commanding admiral, the other one waited long enough in the fjords to be finally sunk by planes, another one did a fair fight and sunk like a battleship should sink and finally the last one was put out of action with a single bomb hit and awaited the end of the war in harbour...



I will have to make a battleship-only mod for AE. Every single ship is replaced by a BB - I really love them!



I generally prefer cuisers.


A type of umbrella drink, IIRC...


Well, drinks with umbrellas are classy


If you're a girl...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Dixie)
Post #: 29019
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:20:38 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

No offense, Historiker (Torsten, right?), but Germany should never have built a battlefleet in the first place. It only came about because the Kaiser had such a massive inferiority complex towards England.

Germany could have been a great power without a single battleship to its name, although I would have to say that it was good for Europe and the world (in the end) that she diverted so many resources towards shipbuilding.

Sort of like the old saying that Hitler was working FOR the Allies in the second half of WWII.

Mahan, ol' northern neigbour, Mahan!

His majesty adored Mahan's book...

Well, a nation with colonies needed ships, but Germany wanted too much. You can't have an army to compete with both france AND Russia while building a battlefleet big enough to be a risk for the RN...


The BBs in WW2 might have been a nice fleet in being, if used properly (and the air threat wasn't in existance).
Imagine Bismarck, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, Graf Zeppelin, Admiral Scheer, Lützow, Prinze Eugen and Admiral Hipper in Brest (and in a BB-bunker, if you want so).

A recce flight over the harbour without finding ships would've ended all shipping in the atlantic immediately...

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 29020
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:20:52 PM   
Dixie


Posts: 10303
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

*snief*
We germans really had no luck with our battlefleet...

The first one went down in the Home Fleet's harbour and the other one... One went down because of the stunning incompetence of its commanding admiral, the other one waited long enough in the fjords to be finally sunk by planes, another one did a fair fight and sunk like a battleship should sink and finally the last one was put out of action with a single bomb hit and awaited the end of the war in harbour...



I will have to make a battleship-only mod for AE. Every single ship is replaced by a BB - I really love them!



I generally prefer cuisers.


A type of umbrella drink, IIRC...


Well, drinks with umbrellas are classy


If you're a girl...


Or you don't like girls Seeing as I don't drink it's not that important.

_____________________________



Bigger boys stole my sig

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 29021
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:21:01 PM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		For six long days and weary nights they tried to find her trail

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 29022
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:21:12 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

So she's not entered the You-Must-Do-Nothing-That-Isn't-About-The-Baby phase yet?

That sounds suspiciously like experience talking.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 29023
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:24:32 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Good evening!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 29024
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:27:18 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Sky Rockets in Flight...
Afternoon Delight...




What song is that Kristian?


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 29025
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:27:29 PM   
Dixie


Posts: 10303
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
Status: offline 		I'm off to bed.  Catch you later chaps 

_____________________________



Bigger boys stole my sig

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 29026
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:30:31 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		Good Night, Dixie!
Hello Leo!


_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Dixie)
Post #: 29027
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:32:40 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

No offense, Historiker (Torsten, right?), but Germany should never have built a battlefleet in the first place. It only came about because the Kaiser had such a massive inferiority complex towards England.

Germany could have been a great power without a single battleship to its name, although I would have to say that it was good for Europe and the world (in the end) that she diverted so many resources towards shipbuilding.

Sort of like the old saying that Hitler was working FOR the Allies in the second half of WWII.

And of course, this wasn't offensive. It was also very costly (and we still pay the "Sektsteuer" that was introduced to finance the fleet. One day, I'll go for our Supreme Court, the Bundesverfassungsgericht, and will demand that all the money earned by this tax has to be spent for battleships!


If I had lived a hundred years ago, I'd volunteer for the High seas fleer for sure!

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 29028
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:34:35 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

No offense, Historiker (Torsten, right?), but Germany should never have built a battlefleet in the first place. It only came about because the Kaiser had such a massive inferiority complex towards England.

Germany could have been a great power without a single battleship to its name, although I would have to say that it was good for Europe and the world (in the end) that she diverted so many resources towards shipbuilding.

Sort of like the old saying that Hitler was working FOR the Allies in the second half of WWII.

Mahan, ol' northern neigbour, Mahan!

His majesty adored Mahan's book...

Well, a nation with colonies needed ships, but Germany wanted too much. You can't have an army to compete with both france AND Russia while building a battlefleet big enough to be a risk for the RN...


The BBs in WW2 might have been a nice fleet in being, if used properly (and the air threat wasn't in existance).
Imagine Bismarck, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, Graf Zeppelin, Admiral Scheer, Lützow, Prinze Eugen and Admiral Hipper in Brest (and in a BB-bunker, if you want so).

A recce flight over the harbour without finding ships would've ended all shipping in the atlantic immediately...


I know. Mahan's fleet-in-being concept was flawed, but Wilhelm ate it raw.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Historiker)
Post #: 29029
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:36:36 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		Not just he. It was equally adored by Japan and by Teddy Roosevelt.

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 29030
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:38:13 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I know. It was still wrong.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Historiker)
Post #: 29031
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:39:30 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		Have you read: "From Mahan to Pearl Harbor"?

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 29032
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:40:29 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		No.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Historiker)
Post #: 29033
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:41:42 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I'm lurking, just feeling too lazy to post.  But, I'm enjoying the fleet in being discussion. 

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 29034
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:45:17 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

No.

me neither, but it's lying in front of me. It's from Sadao Asada by Naval Institute Press and seems quite intersting. Gonna read it when I'm done with History of Aircraft Carriers and Japanese Cruisers in the Pacific war.

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 29035
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:46:12 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		Don't always know what I'm talking about
feels like Im living in the middle of doubt
Cause I'm eighteen! *sing*


_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Historiker)
Post #: 29036
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:51:47 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Germany and Japan both wanted and thought they needed fleets in being. The former didn't need it and the latter couldn't afford it, and they both tried to keep up with an immediate competitor (Britain and the US, respectively) that they had absolutely no chance to compete with.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Historiker)
Post #: 29037
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:53:11 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

I'm lurking, just feeling too lazy to post.  But, I'm enjoying the fleet in being discussion. 


I also. Although I only felt that Mahan's fleet in being concept was wrong if your enemy could afford to build overwhelming naval, ground and air power, and you couldn't. The economy of force principle was otherwise generally valid.

(in reply to USSAmerica)
Post #: 29038
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:53:36 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Zsssssss time...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 29039
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/25/2009 10:55:59 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		I agree.

But can a country in central europe be a great or even world power without an adequate fleet? It needs ships to project power and to deter other powers from seizing their small colonies.
That outbuilding UK wasn't possible then - though without the war maybe 20 years later - is known, but can Germany afford to have a smaller fleet than Italy, France, Japan and Russia?

< Message edited by Historiker -- 7/25/2009 10:57:01 PM >

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 29040
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