Never get involved in a land war in Asia

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Never get involved in a land war in Asia

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Never get involved in a land war in Asia

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 4:34:30 PM

JohnDillworth

Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline

Hate to say it but having to fight a land war in China almost makes me sorry I bought this. I have no interest in this and resent the fact that that I have to come to terms with an area of the conflict I was never interested in. It really detracts from an otherwise excellent game. This is like a big side dish of lima beans and Brussels sprouts one has eat before they get their ice cream.
I hate it

Post #: 1

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 4:36:04 PM

Grotius

Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline

You do know you can put China on auto-pilot, don't you? Just let the AI handle it.

EDIT: Or not! I hadn't realized we can no longer hand control over to the AI. Maybe you can get away with being passive in China, at least for a while. Besides, I found in WITP I enjoyed learning something about the war in China, a conflict in which I previously had no interest either.

< Message edited by Grotius -- 7/29/2009 4:39:50 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to JohnDillworth)

Post #: 2

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 4:42:31 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

Which side are you playing ? You can more or less ignore it and it wont kill you to much

< Message edited by Andy Mac -- 7/29/2009 4:43:30 PM >

(in reply to Grotius)

Post #: 3

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 4:46:04 PM

Droop21

Posts: 115
Joined: 7/19/2002
Status: offline

I play as Allies and would greatly appreciate that script as I only look at China once Thailand has been conquered (at least in WITP against the AI)

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 4

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 5:09:16 PM

Q-Ball

Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline

I think alot of WITP players hate China, myself included, but I play it, because it does nicely simulate the commitments and resources that Japan has to make to keep it going. Out in the Pacific you're scraping around for small SNLF, but in China there are huge IJA formations tied down.

Players who really focus on it as Japan can make great headway there. I tend to see it more as a source of reinforcements for other theaters, but that's just me.

_____________________________

(in reply to JohnDillworth)

Post #: 5

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 5:27:58 PM

EUBanana

Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline

If China can hold on to a port and the Allies can base Catalinas there, then that could be a major aid to Allied submarines operating near the Chinese coast.

I don't really like China itself, but it has such a huge impact on other more interesting parts of the war. Like Burma, for example, it makes Burma valuable. Let alone the whole reinforcement issue.

_____________________________

(in reply to Q-Ball)

Post #: 6

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 5:50:43 PM

Swayin

Posts: 317
Joined: 1/27/2007
From: Bellingham, WA
Status: offline

Send enough troops to hold off an AI attack on your border cities and you won't have to bother looking at China again for a year of game time.

_____________________________

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves

(in reply to EUBanana)

Post #: 7

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 6:09:05 PM

Jim D Burns

Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth
Hate to say it but having to fight a land war in China almost makes me sorry I bought this. I have no interest in this and resent the fact that that I have to come to terms with an area of the conflict I was never interested in. It really detracts from an otherwise excellent game. This is like a big side dish of lima beans and Brussels sprouts one has eat before they get their ice cream.
I hate it

Well considering the fact that the war in China is the reason that the war in the Pacific started in the first place, I think they'd have been remiss if they had cut it out of the game. China is a bear to get you head around, but once you've spent the time becoming familiar with it, it can be quite enjoyable to play for either side.

Buckle down and spend the time to get familiar with China, it's well worth it. And once you do, then it's rather a simple thing to devise a defensive plan if you prefer not to be active in China. Or come up with a myriad of offensive plans if your tastes lean towards being more active.

Once you've implemented a plan and gotten your units where you want them, China is pretty much an afterthought on most turns. The air forces in China will need regular attention, but the land war is easy once the initial hard part is done.

Jim

_____________________________

(in reply to JohnDillworth)

Post #: 8

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 6:25:31 PM

Gideon Stargrave

Posts: 12
Joined: 12/5/2006
Status: offline

Despite the rosy comments to the contrary, no one bought the game for the China aspect.

I am forced to concur with the original poster. The lack of auto-pilot in China is an albatross around the neck of a fine game.

(in reply to Jim D Burns)

Post #: 9

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 6:30:27 PM

JohnDillworth

Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline

I agree China was a big factor in the war but I didn't buy Jutland for the Serbian Navy

(in reply to Gideon Stargrave)

Post #: 10

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 6:36:34 PM

Brady

Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline

Those new to the Game might look at the CHina theater and be impresed by the amount of work their seams to be their. Realy their is not that much one nead wory over if they are not inclined to do so. Ignoring it will not bugger the rest of the game in other words.

Realisticaly some effort should be expended their aganst the Ai, but after a few week in December the front will stabalise largely.

_____________________________

Beta Team Member for:

WPO
PC
CF
AE
WiTE

Obi-wan Kenobi said it best: A lot of the reality we perceive depend on our point of view

(in reply to JohnDillworth)

Post #: 11

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 6:36:55 PM

romanovich

Posts: 126
Joined: 12/8/2004
From: SoCal
Status: offline

I wouldn't have bought the game if China had been excluded. WITP set out to recreate the war in all theaters. That's why there was nothing quite like it - and now there's nothing quite like AE. Much less novelty to something like "Naval warfare in the Pacific in WW2", which is what you seemed interested in. Sorry WITP AE isn't for you.

(in reply to Gideon Stargrave)

Post #: 12

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 6:40:51 PM

Gideon Stargrave

Posts: 12
Joined: 12/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: romanovich

I wouldn't have bought the game if China had been excluded. WITP set out to recreate the war in all theaters. That's why there was nothing quite like it - and now there's nothing quite like AE. Much less novelty to something like "Naval warfare in the Pacific in WW2", which is what you seemed interested in. Sorry WITP AE isn't for you.

But isn't the "naval warfare in the pacific in WW2" how the game is marketed? Isn't it entitled "the Admiral's Edition"? What should I take away from that title?

(in reply to romanovich)

Post #: 13

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 6:43:18 PM

Brady

Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryan Jackson

quote:

ORIGINAL: romanovich

I wouldn't have bought the game if China had been excluded. WITP set out to recreate the war in all theaters. That's why there was nothing quite like it - and now there's nothing quite like AE. Much less novelty to something like "Naval warfare in the Pacific in WW2", which is what you seemed interested in. Sorry WITP AE isn't for you.

But isn't the "naval warfare in the pacific in WW2" how the game is marketed? Isn't it entitled "the Admiral's Edition"? What should I take away from that title?

They had a lot of Take out Chinese food during the development phase.

_____________________________

Beta Team Member for:

WPO
PC
CF
AE
WiTE

Obi-wan Kenobi said it best: A lot of the reality we perceive depend on our point of view

(in reply to Gideon Stargrave)

Post #: 14

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 6:44:40 PM

m10bob

Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryan Jackson

quote:

ORIGINAL: romanovich

I wouldn't have bought the game if China had been excluded. WITP set out to recreate the war in all theaters. That's why there was nothing quite like it - and now there's nothing quite like AE. Much less novelty to something like "Naval warfare in the Pacific in WW2", which is what you seemed interested in. Sorry WITP AE isn't for you.

But isn't the "naval warfare in the pacific in WW2" how the game is marketed? Isn't it entitled "the Admiral's Edition"? What should I take away from that title?

If you want, consider China et al a bonus feature and historical correctness since it is part of WW2, (not "Ship War 2").

With the editor, you can just remove any part of the game you don't like, and go at it..

_____________________________

(in reply to Gideon Stargrave)

Post #: 15

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 6:46:03 PM

romanovich

Posts: 126
Joined: 12/8/2004
From: SoCal
Status: offline

Don't know about you, but I read the "Features" list under the title before ordering:

-An all new 40 nautical mile per hex map covering the entire Pacific theater and off-map bases
-Six new scenarios, including a new grand campaign with meticulously researched orders of battle
-Improved naval operations, including waypoints, mid-ocean intercepts, new ship classes and devises and a greatly improved ship upgrade system, engine vs. system damage, new ship art and realistic new port limits for ships, cargo and repairs
-Improved air operations, including more realistic CAP, more detailed and realistic dogfighting, an improved pilot skill and replacement system, persistent plane damage and more realistic plane maintenance, improved fog of war, new aircraft art and over 500 airplane types
-Improved land operations, including transportation networks defined by hex-side, new operations modes for land units, dynamic zone of control, tactical movement, improved fog of war and overstacking rules for atolls and small islands.
-Improved economy and industry to reflect more realistic operations as well as more historical balance
-The most historical and detailed order of battle for the Pacific War ever put into a wargame!

(in reply to Gideon Stargrave)

Post #: 16

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 6:47:37 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

Ryan/John I hear the issue I also dont overly like China but I tend to just ignore it for that reason - I would suggest you do the same if it bugs you ignore it

(in reply to romanovich)

Post #: 17

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 6:50:33 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

As the Allied player in WitP (well, the Big-B Mod), I really enjoyed China. It was pretty easy to stymie the Japs there, giving the Allies a theatre of success during the dark days of the war. And it also gave the Allies some strategic options (hitting Vietnam, reinforcing Burma, or feinting here or there) that could give the Japs some real heartburn if they weren't paying attention. I don't know if AE will have the same possibilities, but I'll find out!

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 18

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 6:59:04 PM

Fishbed

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryan Jackson

quote:

ORIGINAL: romanovich

I wouldn't have bought the game if China had been excluded. WITP set out to recreate the war in all theaters. That's why there was nothing quite like it - and now there's nothing quite like AE. Much less novelty to something like "Naval warfare in the Pacific in WW2", which is what you seemed interested in. Sorry WITP AE isn't for you.

But isn't the "naval warfare in the pacific in WW2" how the game is marketed? Isn't it entitled "the Admiral's Edition"? What should I take away from that title?

Now, you could also buy Carriers at War instead of buying AE and whine about something no-one forced you to buy, and something we knew about from the very beginning. It's like buying a WW2 grand-strategic game and say you don't care about Eastern Front because it's boring. Sorry, next time they'll be fighting a world war, I'll ask them to go around and avoid boring places.

quote:

Hate to say it

Really? Then just don't say it

_____________________________

(in reply to Gideon Stargrave)

Post #: 19

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 7:08:07 PM

SuluSea

Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline

WITP and AE is unique with its inclusion of The Soviets and China, they're part of what makes this game special. �Take some time to use all forces at your disposal to attrit the enemy. I agree its not as fun as�fast carrier raid but China/Soviets has some aspects that can be appreaciated.

_____________________________

"There�s no such thing as a bitter person who keeps the bitterness to himself.� ~ Erwin Lutzer

(in reply to Fishbed)

Post #: 20

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 7:13:38 PM

herwin

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Hate to say it but having to fight a land war in China almost makes me sorry I bought this. I have no interest in this and resent the fact that that I have to come to terms with an area of the conflict I was never interested in. It really detracts from an otherwise excellent game. This is like a big side dish of lima beans and Brussels sprouts one has eat before they get their ice cream.
I hate it

China was the reason for the whole exercise. The South and Central Pacific had no strategic objectives--none. Japan grabbed the East Indies and adjacent areas to get enough resources to allow it to prosecute the war in China. You can get by with putting the Chinese campaign on a back burner while the smash and grab exercise plays out, but you have to maintain focus on the original goal if you want a chance at strategic victory.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to JohnDillworth)

Post #: 21

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 7:14:48 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Advice for now is to ignore China if you're not interested in it, it can be rewarding to pay attention to it, but you will not likely lose the war by ignoring it.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to SuluSea)

Post #: 22

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 7:40:04 PM

Dili

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline

With Witp i liked China theatre as variance to too much Pacific water

. Now with strategic movements, reserves and such it might even be more interesting.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 23

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 7:44:50 PM

Swayin

Posts: 317
Joined: 1/27/2007
From: Bellingham, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryan Jackson

quote:

ORIGINAL: romanovich

I wouldn't have bought the game if China had been excluded. WITP set out to recreate the war in all theaters. That's why there was nothing quite like it - and now there's nothing quite like AE. Much less novelty to something like "Naval warfare in the Pacific in WW2", which is what you seemed interested in. Sorry WITP AE isn't for you.

But isn't the "naval warfare in the pacific in WW2" how the game is marketed? Isn't it entitled "the Admiral's Edition"? What should I take away from that title?

Oh brother. So it needs to say "Admiral's Edition with that silly land war in China too" to be accurate? come on.

_____________________________

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves

(in reply to Gideon Stargrave)

Post #: 24

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 7:56:45 PM

AttuWatcher

Posts: 489
Joined: 6/25/2009
From: Hex 181, 36
Status: offline

Personally I'm really looking forward to learning the intricacies of the land war in China. It's another layer of depth for possibilities in strategic thought and operations.
As was said, China is THE reason for the Pacific war; as someone who has at least some interest in history I would consider WITP/AE an incomplete game without it. It's exclusion would certainly detract from my overall interest in the game.

As Dili noted it provides variance. Massive land and sea war in one game is always good in my book!

(in reply to Dili)

Post #: 25

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 8:21:48 PM

Mistmatz

Posts: 1399
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline

When I first played WitP I was glad to see at least some real land war in China (albeit on a very high level) and not only boring old steel moving across the ocean.

This might have to do with the fact that I'm german and came from GGs War in Russia and similar european theater based games. Of course in the meantime I grew fond of that boring old steel limping across half the globe...

(in reply to AttuWatcher)

Post #: 26

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 8:37:13 PM

ImaginaryBaron

Posts: 5
Joined: 7/29/2009
Status: offline

I was initially upset when I saw that there was no option to hand the Chinese theater over to the computer, but if it's in the name of better AI, I can accept that. The stronger AI was the primary reason I bought AE in the first place. In my current game I just pulled the Chinese forces that were in the field back to a defensive line of cities where I shouldn't have to worry about micromanaging them.

(in reply to Mistmatz)

Post #: 27

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 8:44:01 PM

Speedysteve

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline

This is my take on it also SamuraiGGG. Once in situ in strong defences you shouldn't have to worry about China changing too much against the AI I *THINK*.

_____________________________

WitE 2 Tester
WitE Tester
BTR/BoB Tester

(in reply to ImaginaryBaron)

Post #: 28

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 8:52:43 PM

Banquet

Posts: 1184
Joined: 8/23/2002
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

This is my take on it also SamuraiGGG. Once in situ in strong defences you shouldn't have to worry about China changing too much against the AI I *THINK*.

I'm hoping the same

_____________________________

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac241/norfolktraveller/command-banner_zps8a55d0fa.jpg

(in reply to Speedysteve)

Post #: 29

RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia - 7/29/2009 8:56:16 PM

Charbroiled

Posts: 1181
Joined: 10/15/2004
From: Oregon
Status: offline

Not having China in a game about the "War in the Pacific 1941-1945" is like excluding France from a game about WWI.

The China campaign can have some interesting aspects to it. Don't concentrate on the land war too much, put your focus on the air war. Use China as a learning ground on how the system works. Move units around using the different LCU settings to see how they function. Put the air units in China into different configurations (i.e. 70% Cap/30% rest) and see what the effects over time are. Run sweep missions at differt altitudes and see what happens. China is an area where you can test some new things out without messing up your situation in the rest of the game.

_____________________________

"When I said I would run, I meant 'away' ". - Orange

(in reply to ImaginaryBaron)

Post #: 30