Never get involved in a land war in Asia (Full Version)

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JohnDillworth -> Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 4:34:30 PM)

Hate to say it but having to fight a land war in China almost makes me sorry I bought this. I have no interest in this and resent the fact that that I have to come to terms with an area of the conflict I was never interested in. It really detracts from an otherwise excellent game. This is like a big side dish of lima beans and Brussels sprouts one has eat before they get their ice cream.
I hate it



Grotius -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 4:36:04 PM)

You do know you can put China on auto-pilot, don't you? Just let the AI handle it.

EDIT: Or not! I hadn't realized we can no longer hand control over to the AI. Maybe you can get away with being passive in China, at least for a while. Besides, I found in WITP I enjoyed learning something about the war in China, a conflict in which I previously had no interest either.



Andy Mac -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 4:42:31 PM)

Which side are you playing ? You can more or less ignore it and it wont kill you to much



Droop21 -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 4:46:04 PM)

I play as Allies and would greatly appreciate that script as I only look at China once Thailand has been conquered (at least in WITP against the AI) [&o]



Q-Ball -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 5:09:16 PM)

I think alot of WITP players hate China, myself included, but I play it, because it does nicely simulate the commitments and resources that Japan has to make to keep it going. Out in the Pacific you're scraping around for small SNLF, but in China there are huge IJA formations tied down.

Players who really focus on it as Japan can make great headway there. I tend to see it more as a source of reinforcements for other theaters, but that's just me.



EUBanana -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 5:27:58 PM)

If China can hold on to a port and the Allies can base Catalinas there, then that could be a major aid to Allied submarines operating near the Chinese coast.

I don't really like China itself, but it has such a huge impact on other more interesting parts of the war.  Like Burma, for example, it makes Burma valuable.  Let alone the whole reinforcement issue.



Swayin -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 5:50:43 PM)

Send enough troops to hold off an AI attack on your border cities and you won't have to bother looking at China again for a year of game time.



Jim D Burns -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 6:09:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth
Hate to say it but having to fight a land war in China almost makes me sorry I bought this. I have no interest in this and resent the fact that that I have to come to terms with an area of the conflict I was never interested in. It really detracts from an otherwise excellent game. This is like a big side dish of lima beans and Brussels sprouts one has eat before they get their ice cream.
I hate it



Well considering the fact that the war in China is the reason that the war in the Pacific started in the first place, I think they'd have been remiss if they had cut it out of the game. China is a bear to get you head around, but once you've spent the time becoming familiar with it, it can be quite enjoyable to play for either side.

Buckle down and spend the time to get familiar with China, it's well worth it. And once you do, then it's rather a simple thing to devise a defensive plan if you prefer not to be active in China. Or come up with a myriad of offensive plans if your tastes lean towards being more active.

Once you've implemented a plan and gotten your units where you want them, China is pretty much an afterthought on most turns. The air forces in China will need regular attention, but the land war is easy once the initial hard part is done.

Jim



Gideon Stargrave -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 6:25:31 PM)

Despite the rosy comments to the contrary, no one bought the game for the China aspect.

I am forced to concur with the original poster. The lack of auto-pilot in China is an albatross around the neck of a fine game.



JohnDillworth -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 6:30:27 PM)

I agree China was a big factor in the war but I didn't buy Jutland for the Serbian Navy



Brady -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 6:36:34 PM)


Those new to the Game might look at the CHina theater and be impresed by the amount of work their seams to be their. Realy their is not that much one nead wory over if they are not inclined to do so. Ignoring it will not bugger the rest of the game in other words.

Realisticaly some effort should be expended their aganst the Ai, but after a few week in December the front will stabalise largely.



romanovich -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 6:36:55 PM)

I wouldn't have bought the game if China had been excluded. WITP set out to recreate the war in all theaters. That's why there was nothing quite like it - and now there's nothing quite like AE. Much less novelty to something like "Naval warfare in the Pacific in WW2", which is what you seemed interested in. Sorry WITP AE isn't for you.



Gideon Stargrave -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 6:40:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: romanovich

I wouldn't have bought the game if China had been excluded. WITP set out to recreate the war in all theaters. That's why there was nothing quite like it - and now there's nothing quite like AE. Much less novelty to something like "Naval warfare in the Pacific in WW2", which is what you seemed interested in. Sorry WITP AE isn't for you.


But isn't the "naval warfare in the pacific in WW2" how the game is marketed? Isn't it entitled "the Admiral's Edition"? What should I take away from that title?



Brady -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 6:43:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryan Jackson


quote:

ORIGINAL: romanovich

I wouldn't have bought the game if China had been excluded. WITP set out to recreate the war in all theaters. That's why there was nothing quite like it - and now there's nothing quite like AE. Much less novelty to something like "Naval warfare in the Pacific in WW2", which is what you seemed interested in. Sorry WITP AE isn't for you.


But isn't the "naval warfare in the pacific in WW2" how the game is marketed? Isn't it entitled "the Admiral's Edition"? What should I take away from that title?


They had a lot of Take out Chinese food during the development phase.



m10bob -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 6:44:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryan Jackson


quote:

ORIGINAL: romanovich

I wouldn't have bought the game if China had been excluded. WITP set out to recreate the war in all theaters. That's why there was nothing quite like it - and now there's nothing quite like AE. Much less novelty to something like "Naval warfare in the Pacific in WW2", which is what you seemed interested in. Sorry WITP AE isn't for you.


But isn't the "naval warfare in the pacific in WW2" how the game is marketed? Isn't it entitled "the Admiral's Edition"? What should I take away from that title?



If you want, consider China et al a bonus feature and historical correctness since it is part of WW2, (not "Ship War 2").

With the editor, you can just remove any part of the game you don't like, and go at it..[sm=00000924.gif]



romanovich -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 6:46:03 PM)

Don't know about you, but I read the "Features" list under the title before ordering:

-An all new 40 nautical mile per hex map covering the entire Pacific theater and off-map bases
-Six new scenarios, including a new grand campaign with meticulously researched orders of battle
-Improved naval operations, including waypoints, mid-ocean intercepts, new ship classes and devises and a greatly improved ship upgrade system, engine vs. system damage, new ship art and realistic new port limits for ships, cargo and repairs
-Improved air operations, including more realistic CAP, more detailed and realistic dogfighting, an improved pilot skill and replacement system, persistent plane damage and more realistic plane maintenance, improved fog of war, new aircraft art and over 500 airplane types
-Improved land operations, including transportation networks defined by hex-side, new operations modes for land units, dynamic zone of control, tactical movement, improved fog of war and overstacking rules for atolls and small islands.
-Improved economy and industry to reflect more realistic operations as well as more historical balance
-The most historical and detailed order of battle for the Pacific War ever put into a wargame!



Andy Mac -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 6:47:37 PM)

Ryan/John I hear the issue I also dont overly like China but I tend to just ignore it for that reason - I would suggest you do the same if it bugs you ignore it



Canoerebel -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 6:50:33 PM)

As the Allied player in WitP (well, the Big-B Mod), I really enjoyed China. It was pretty easy to stymie the Japs there, giving the Allies a theatre of success during the dark days of the war. And it also gave the Allies some strategic options (hitting Vietnam, reinforcing Burma, or feinting here or there) that could give the Japs some real heartburn if they weren't paying attention. I don't know if AE will have the same possibilities, but I'll find out!



Fishbed -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 6:59:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryan Jackson


quote:

ORIGINAL: romanovich

I wouldn't have bought the game if China had been excluded. WITP set out to recreate the war in all theaters. That's why there was nothing quite like it - and now there's nothing quite like AE. Much less novelty to something like "Naval warfare in the Pacific in WW2", which is what you seemed interested in. Sorry WITP AE isn't for you.


But isn't the "naval warfare in the pacific in WW2" how the game is marketed? Isn't it entitled "the Admiral's Edition"? What should I take away from that title?


Now, you could also buy Carriers at War instead of buying AE and whine about something no-one forced you to buy, and something we knew about from the very beginning. It's like buying a WW2 grand-strategic game and say you don't care about Eastern Front because it's boring. Sorry, next time they'll be fighting a world war, I'll ask them to go around and avoid boring places.

quote:

Hate to say it

Really? Then just don't say it [;)]



SuluSea -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 7:08:07 PM)

WITP and AE is unique with its inclusion of The Soviets and China, they're part of what makes this game special.  Take some time to use all forces at your disposal to attrit the enemy. I agree its not as fun as fast carrier raid but China/Soviets has some aspects that can be appreaciated.



herwin -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 7:13:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Hate to say it but having to fight a land war in China almost makes me sorry I bought this. I have no interest in this and resent the fact that that I have to come to terms with an area of the conflict I was never interested in. It really detracts from an otherwise excellent game. This is like a big side dish of lima beans and Brussels sprouts one has eat before they get their ice cream.
I hate it

China was the reason for the whole exercise. The South and Central Pacific had no strategic objectives--none. Japan grabbed the East Indies and adjacent areas to get enough resources to allow it to prosecute the war in China. You can get by with putting the Chinese campaign on a back burner while the smash and grab exercise plays out, but you have to maintain focus on the original goal if you want a chance at strategic victory.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 7:14:48 PM)

Advice for now is to ignore China if you're not interested in it, it can be rewarding to pay attention to it, but you will not likely lose the war by ignoring it.



Dili -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 7:40:04 PM)

With Witp i liked China theatre as variance to too much Pacific water [:D]. Now with strategic movements, reserves and such it might even be more interesting.



Swayin -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 7:44:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryan Jackson


quote:

ORIGINAL: romanovich

I wouldn't have bought the game if China had been excluded. WITP set out to recreate the war in all theaters. That's why there was nothing quite like it - and now there's nothing quite like AE. Much less novelty to something like "Naval warfare in the Pacific in WW2", which is what you seemed interested in. Sorry WITP AE isn't for you.


But isn't the "naval warfare in the pacific in WW2" how the game is marketed? Isn't it entitled "the Admiral's Edition"? What should I take away from that title?



Oh brother. So it needs to say "Admiral's Edition with that silly land war in China too" to be accurate? come on.



AttuWatcher -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 7:56:45 PM)

Personally I'm really looking forward to learning the intricacies of the land war in China. It's another layer of depth for possibilities in strategic thought and operations.
As was said, China is THE reason for the Pacific war; as someone who has at least some interest in history I would consider WITP/AE an incomplete game without it. It's exclusion would certainly detract from my overall interest in the game.

As Dili noted it provides variance. Massive land and sea war in one game is always good in my book!



Mistmatz -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 8:21:48 PM)

When I first played WitP I was glad to see at least some real land war in China (albeit on a very high level) and not only boring old steel moving across the ocean.

This might have to do with the fact that I'm german and came from GGs War in Russia and similar european theater based games. Of course in the meantime I grew fond of that boring old steel limping across half the globe... [;)]



ImaginaryBaron -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 8:37:13 PM)

I was initially upset when I saw that there was no option to hand the Chinese theater over to the computer, but if it's in the name of better AI, I can accept that. The stronger AI was the primary reason I bought AE in the first place. In my current game I just pulled the Chinese forces that were in the field back to a defensive line of cities where I shouldn't have to worry about micromanaging them. 



Speedysteve -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 8:44:01 PM)

This is my take on it also SamuraiGGG. Once in situ in strong defences you shouldn't have to worry about China changing too much against the AI I *THINK*.



Banquet -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 8:52:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

This is my take on it also SamuraiGGG. Once in situ in strong defences you shouldn't have to worry about China changing too much against the AI I *THINK*.


I'm hoping the same



Charbroiled -> RE: Never get involved in a land war in Asia (7/29/2009 8:56:16 PM)

Not having China in a game about the "War in the Pacific 1941-1945" is like excluding France from a game about WWI.

The China campaign can have some interesting aspects to it. Don't concentrate on the land war too much, put your focus on the air war. Use China as a learning ground on how the system works. Move units around using the different LCU settings to see how they function. Put the air units in China into different configurations (i.e. 70% Cap/30% rest) and see what the effects over time are. Run sweep missions at differt altitudes and see what happens. China is an area where you can test some new things out without messing up your situation in the rest of the game.



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