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FOW is working - 8/3/2009 6:27:33 PM   
R8J


Posts: 238
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: Shelby County, Tennessee
Status: offline 		SB2C-5 Helldiver from VT-74 has spotted a Japanese CA at 173,141
F1M2 Pete reports object near surface at 172, 143 near Christmas Island
F1M2 Pete sighting report: 10 Allied ships at 173,139 near Christmas Island, speed 19, Moving Northwest
OS2U-3 Kingfisher sighting report: 9 Japanese ships at 169,134 near Palmyra, speed 20, Moving East

There is only one Japanese ship in this scenario and it is at 173,141.
There are two Allied ships. Both are in seperate ports.
There is nothing at 172,143.

_____________________________

Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.

Who Dares Wins.

You smell like dead bunnies.
Post #: 1
RE: FOW is working - 8/3/2009 6:47:18 PM   
John Lansford

 

Posts: 2662
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline 		The Dutch CL Java was attacked and sunk by torpedo bombers north of Borneo in my game.  During the attack, the combat report indicated three different ships had been attacked; Java, a "Helena class CL", and De Ruyter.  If my opponent had been a human instead of the AI he would probably be wondering just how many CL's were in that TF.

How they mistook Java for either a Helena or De Ruyter escapes me; it's not like the difference between a Cleveland and a Helena, or a Chicago and a San Francisco, after all.

(in reply to R8J)
Post #: 2
RE: FOW is working - 8/3/2009 6:55:19 PM   
AttuWatcher

 

Posts: 489
Joined: 6/25/2009
From: Hex 181, 36
Status: offline 		Playing Aleutians I'm pretty sure I've had my own TF's reported as Japanese TF's a few times.

(in reply to John Lansford)
Post #: 3
RE: FOW is working - 8/3/2009 6:55:47 PM   
R8J


Posts: 238
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: Shelby County, Tennessee
Status: offline 		After the first airstrike in my last test Midway vs Shinano three Japnese CVs were reported in three differant hexes north of the Midway.

If this was a PBEM game and early in the war I'd be concerned I was being ambushed and steamed at full speed to the southeast.

In that airstrike the Shinano was ID'd as a Hiryu class.

I can see the mis-identification of ships. The Japanese attacked the Neshoba (sp) thinking (or at least reporting) it was a CV.

When I was in the navy the majoity of sailors (at least on my ship) could not tell a Soviet ship from a NATO. Every merchant ship was a super tanker. Every fishing boat was a AGI.

_____________________________

Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.

Who Dares Wins.

You smell like dead bunnies.

(in reply to John Lansford)
Post #: 4
RE: FOW is working - 8/3/2009 7:09:07 PM   
jazman

 

Posts: 369
Joined: 1/20/2007
From: Crush Depth
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: R8J


When I was in the navy the majoity of sailors (at least on my ship) could not tell a Soviet ship from a NATO. Every merchant ship was a super tanker. Every fishing boat was a AGI.


And on the West Front every German tank was a Tiger tank.

(in reply to R8J)
Post #: 5
RE: FOW is working - 8/3/2009 7:20:08 PM   
R8J


Posts: 238
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: Shelby County, Tennessee
Status: offline 		I forgot about that one.

Every gun was an 88.

_____________________________

Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.

Who Dares Wins.

You smell like dead bunnies.

(in reply to jazman)
Post #: 6
RE: FOW is working - 8/3/2009 7:30:39 PM   
AttuWatcher

 

Posts: 489
Joined: 6/25/2009
From: Hex 181, 36
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: R8J
When I was in the navy the majoity of sailors (at least on my ship) could not tell a Soviet ship from a NATO. Every merchant ship was a super tanker. Every fishing boat was a AGI.


When I patrolled the North Pac we once had a tanker reported as a USN CV and every Russian fishing vessel was reported as a rust bucket

(in reply to R8J)
Post #: 7
RE: FOW is working - 8/3/2009 7:38:20 PM   
R8J


Posts: 238
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: Shelby County, Tennessee
Status: offline 		Off the coast of Egypt several oil rigs were ID'd as supertankers.

And off VA Beach the top of some hotels were ID'd as super tankers.

If it wasn't grey it was a super tanker.

_____________________________

Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.

Who Dares Wins.

You smell like dead bunnies.

(in reply to AttuWatcher)
Post #: 8
RE: FOW is working - 8/3/2009 7:51:48 PM   
scott64


Posts: 4019
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		I had one sub be reported as sunk twice now, and yet the sub still swims.

_____________________________

Lucky for you, tonight it's just me


Any ship can be a minesweeper..once !! :)

http://suspenseandmystery.blogspot.com/

(in reply to R8J)
Post #: 9
RE: FOW is working - 8/3/2009 9:52:33 PM   
wpurdom

 

Posts: 476
Joined: 10/27/2000
From: Decatur, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Speaking about FOW, I think I saw Zuikaku on the sunk ship list before I encountered it in a crippled state and sunk it (again?).

(in reply to scott64)
Post #: 10
RE: FOW is working - 8/3/2009 9:57:40 PM   
BoneMaru

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 8/2/2009
Status: offline 		I think Japs reported a CV sinking at Coral Sea, in reality was the replenish tanker. Adds to fog of war imo.

(in reply to R8J)
Post #: 11
RE: FOW is working - 8/3/2009 10:28:41 PM   
Swayin


Posts: 317
Joined: 1/27/2007
From: Bellingham, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford
How they mistook Java for either a Helena or De Ruyter escapes me; it's not like the difference between a Cleveland and a Helena, or a Chicago and a San Francisco, after all.



I remember reading in "Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" (perhaps the best book I've ever read on WW II naval surface combat, BTW) that a Japanese VADM was sure he was locked in a running gun duel with US CAs ... and the reality was it was a couple of Fletchers and a DE...pretty common occurence.

_____________________________

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves


(in reply to John Lansford)
Post #: 12
RE: FOW is working - 8/3/2009 10:51:59 PM   
Tazo


Posts: 85
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Toulouse, France
Status: offline
I agree, FOW works well !

After 2 months of Guadalcanal campaign I had a "certain" idea of which jap ships mine were
able to sunk and this was confirmed by the "list of sunk ships" in the menu counting the points.

But...

I looked at the current turn from the other side just to figure out if it was worth continuing
after very intense operations and then... surprise, some of the actually sunk ships were quiet
different, not the same name or class, and my score was three times the one I believed in.

Indeed the zui and the sho I pursued after our last battle 31 sept' (when they escaped thanks
to bad weather)... were sunk just after the attacks (the date and location are listed and true for
the active side), so my planes under the stormy weather failed to see this, and this is why I only
succeeded in attacking a CA/DD surface TF retiring the next two days, I was not happy since I
especially micromanaged all the sector recos to catch them again... So the FOW is working and
the reports are really likely to provide bad infos ! Or missing some important ones ! I'm not sure
how I will have learned this "two CV sunk" later... and with my Wasp suddenly sunk during the
night by a submarine thus letting the Saratoga alone while waiting 40 and 70 days the 2 others
CV being repaired, I would have hard time under this frustrating uncertainty with respect to the
severely damaged jap CVs. Great simulation of FOW, with major impact on the player's decisions !

Likewise, the reco of this jap turn showed some of the "sighted ships" hex I knew to be empty.

Also, some busy days my pilots reported the Yamato everywhere, say in two TFs ! I damaged
then even sunk her after multi-dive bombings... several times in different locations ! And indeed
she was returned in a port, only lightly damaged, while another BB was sunk and another back
home for long repair.

As IRL we have to be careful with reports and try to proceed by logical deduction.
So I can imagine large scale uncertainty during the full campaign...

( Now I go for a second Guadal this time played entirely to report to Andy the long range performance
of the AI, to confirm strengh and weakness - and improve or clarify a few possibilities for the Jap.
To prepare for the grand campaign I think it is worth exploring deeply this not too long scenario I
love so much. )



_____________________________

There is only two kinds of operational plans, good ones and bad ones.
The good ones almost always fail under unexpected circumstances that often make the bad ones succeed.
-- Napoléon.

With AE immortality is no more a curse.
-- A lucky man.

(in reply to R8J)
Post #: 13
RE: FOW is working - 8/3/2009 11:33:42 PM   
esteban


Posts: 618
Joined: 7/21/2004
Status: offline 		All thats needed now is to have these FOW reports, especially the sinkings, rendered ingame via Tokyo Rose voiceovers!!

(in reply to Tazo)
Post #: 14
RE: FOW is working - 8/3/2009 11:45:37 PM   
Tazo


Posts: 85
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Toulouse, France
Status: offline
Right Esteban, capital ship sinkings are hard to hide simultaneously to the journalists of
our side, to soldier families and to enemy spies ! Impossible after some delay.

Good new feature : major sinkings announced after a random delay... by a newspaper title !

_____________________________

There is only two kinds of operational plans, good ones and bad ones.
The good ones almost always fail under unexpected circumstances that often make the bad ones succeed.
-- Napoléon.

With AE immortality is no more a curse.
-- A lucky man.

(in reply to esteban)
Post #: 15
RE: FOW is working - 8/3/2009 11:51:42 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		There are errors in ID that are mindblowing but that is how the things are in reality. Only after some time in real cases with friends i grasped that are big differences in visual abilities from person to person. Things that i could see clear for others were difficult or uncertain.

(in reply to Tazo)
Post #: 16
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