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RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 1:27:42 AM   
AttuWatcher

 

Posts: 489
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From: Hex 181, 36
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tazo

 
You know sermil, this game takes time to master. If your TF do not opperate as you planed them for, this is certainly that you miss some point...


Excellent observations Tazo, the level at which AE is controlled tends to be forgotten in the midst of the lower level details. This perspective should be thoroughly understood and experienced by all who claim to make final conclusions.

(in reply to Tazo)
Post #: 31
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 2:32:20 AM   
stuman


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From: Elvis' Hometown
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Very good response Tazo!

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Post #: 32
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 3:04:21 AM   
SteveD64

 

Posts: 570
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From: Shaker Hts, Ohio, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato_Blitzer

quote:

ORIGINAL: CLEVELAND

In Guadalcanal, the Japanese have two carriers (the Ryujo is terrible with not so good pilots) to stand up against three US carriers. They cannot go toe to toe against the whole US carrier fleet. It's not advisable to gamble with them on carrier battles.

Well two carriers to start with. But 4 CV's and 1 CVL in total (worth mentioning), even with 4 jap carriers and ryujo vs those 3 american carriers, your jap carriers will lose the battle, almost guaranteed. Val's and Kate's target carriers quite well, but the inevitable massacre of them at the hands of F4F's will destroy about 70% of their numbers in any given engagement, even with massive amounts of Zero's flying escort, large numbers of F4F's always break through and massacre the kates and vals, thats the problem im having. Ive tried everything and im unable to counter this at all

However, i played the american side and had no challenge at all in destroying the jap carriers (even with them having 4 carriers)



Yep, I don't disagree. But there's some happy times to be had away from the American carriers. It will cost you planes and exhaust your pilots but your carriers will still be in action.

< Message edited by CLEVELAND -- 8/11/2009 3:05:16 AM >

(in reply to Yamato_Blitzer)
Post #: 33
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 3:06:56 AM   
RevRick


Posts: 2617
Joined: 9/16/2000
From: Thomasville, GA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mullk

Sorry but us Air Force guys think roughing it is when you are in billiting rather than in a hotel...




So, who caters your bivouacs?

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(in reply to pmelheck1)
Post #: 34
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 3:12:46 AM   
Kull


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A number of disciples went to the Buddha and said, "Sir, there are living here in Savatthi many wandering hermits and scholars who indulge in constant dispute, some saying that the world is infinite and eternal and others that it is finite and not eternal, some saying that the soul dies with the body and others that it lives on forever, and so forth. What, Sir, would you say concerning them?"

The Buddha answered, "Once upon a time there was a certain raja who called to his servant and said, 'Come, good fellow, go and gather together in one place all the men of Savatthi who were born blind... and show them an elephant.' 'Very good, sire,' replied the servant, and he did as he was told. He said to the blind men assembled there, 'Here is an elephant,' and to one man he presented the head of the elephant, to another its ears, to another a tusk, to another the trunk, the foot, back, tail, and tuft of the tail, saying to each one that that was the elephant.

"When the blind men had felt the elephant, the raja went to each of them and said to each, 'Well, blind man, have you seen the elephant? Tell me, what sort of thing is an elephant?'

"Thereupon the men who were presented with the head answered, 'Sire, an elephant is like a pot.' And the men who had observed the ear replied, 'An elephant is like a winnowing basket.' Those who had been presented with a tusk said it was a ploughshare. Those who knew only the trunk said it was a plough; others said the body was a grainery; the foot, a pillar; the back, a mortar; the tail, a pestle, the tuft of the tail, a brush.

"Then they began to quarrel, shouting, 'Yes it is!' 'No, it is not!' 'An elephant is not that!' 'Yes, it's like that!' and so on, till they came to blows over the matter.

"Brethren, the raja was delighted with the scene.

"Just so are these preachers and scholars holding various views blind and unseeing.... In their ignorance they are by nature quarrelsome, wrangling, and disputatious, each maintaining reality is thus and thus."

Then the Exalted One rendered this meaning by uttering this verse of uplift,

O how they cling and wrangle, some who claim
For preacher and monk the honored name!
For, quarreling, each to his view they cling.
Such folk see only one side of a thing.
Jainism and Buddhism. Udana 68-69:
Parable of the Blind Men and the Elephant

(in reply to RevRick)
Post #: 35
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 3:15:03 AM   
pmelheck1

 

Posts: 610
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From: Alabama
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our what?

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Post #: 36
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 4:42:07 AM   
stuman


Posts: 3907
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From: Elvis' Hometown
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An updated version :

" O how they cling and wrangle, some who claim
For AFB and JFB the best played game !
For, quarreling, each to his view they cling.
Such folk see only one side of a thing."
AFBism and JFBism. WiTP-AE ver 1.0:
AFBs vs JFBs Who Has it Worse


_____________________________

" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley


(in reply to pmelheck1)
Post #: 37
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 5:31:44 AM   
dpstafford


Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sermil
Mr. Rutins can easily check that I own the game. Sorry...

Let me apologize for the rough treatment you have received. The cheerleader hit squads that patrol these forums are quite vicious. (Have you ever seen the movie "Heathers"?).

I think their rage is derived from the pain they are suffering since having had their pom-poms surgically attached.

I haven't played the Gualcanal scenario. But I am nearing Christmas in a PBEM GC. And given that the surface/bombardment retirement option doesn't work, I don't see how that scenario could even be playable--without the "Tokyo Express".

There are a lot of great new features in AE (over WITP). But there are also a number of things that jumped-the-shark. But since you appear to completely new to this game system, you should expect a few bumps. And until you play against a human opponent, you will never expeience the game's full potential.

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Post #: 38
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 8:23:17 AM   
CV Zuikaku

 

Posts: 442
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quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

quote:

Losses were realistic. Zeroes got 4:1 kill rate in their favour.


Just out of curiosity, what planet did this take place on?


Clark Field. Been rotating 2 Zero units. every day one of them sweeps at 21000ft and the other one rests. It works vry well for me

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 39
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 2:38:26 PM   
jjax


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dpstafford

quote:

ORIGINAL: sermil
Mr. Rutins can easily check that I own the game. Sorry...

Let me apologize for the rough treatment you have received. The cheerleader hit squads that patrol these forums are quite vicious. (Have you ever seen the movie "Heathers"?).

I think their rage is derived from the pain they are suffering since having had their pom-poms surgically attached.

I haven't played the Gualcanal scenario. But I am nearing Christmas in a PBEM GC. And given that the surface/bombardment retirement option doesn't work, I don't see how that scenario could even be playable--without the "Tokyo Express".

There are a lot of great new features in AE (over WITP). But there are also a number of things that jumped-the-shark. But since you appear to completely new to this game system, you should expect a few bumps. And until you play against a human opponent, you will never expeience the game's full potential.


The reason he initially got poor treatment was

quote:


You won't be hearing any more from me.
Regards.


And even then, the so called cheerleaders were more than willing to help him out. I doubt people need you to apologize for them.

Everybody is allowed to criticizes . I have seen some from the most hardcore WITP players. However, it should at least be constructive so the Dev team can actually do something about it.

My second edit, I should stay off these forums before my first coffee.

Eventually he did list his issues so I am not using this post to flame the original poster.

< Message edited by jjax -- 8/11/2009 2:48:25 PM >


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Post #: 40
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 2:48:56 PM   
Mynok


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Ignore him. Punch the little green button and his whining will never bother you again.

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Post #: 41
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 3:43:27 PM   
John Lansford

 

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dpstafford,

Don't know what you're doing wrong, but my bombardment TF's are performing just like they're supposed to.  They run up to the target, bombard and then withdraw to their home base.  I'm in the general campaign as well and have done this numerous times, with different ships and it has worked every time as I described.  Maybe you are telling the TF to remain on station?  When I did that the TF would bombard until the ammo level got too low, then they turned into surface warfare TF's.

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 42
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 5:54:01 PM   
mark24

 

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Joined: 8/4/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Don't know what you're doing wrong, but my bombardment TF's are performing just like they're supposed to. 


Mine aren't.

I had a Bombardment TF led by Carpender, & the TF repeatedly refused to bombard, it moved a hex away from the target & would go no further, it didn't matter what retirement orders it had set, it just wouldn't do what I'd ordered it to. I gave it orders to bombard another island & it refused combat again.

Mark

(in reply to John Lansford)
Post #: 43
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 6:37:21 PM   
John Lansford

 

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Damaged ships?  Cautious TF commander?  Ships out of ammo or low on fuel?  Is the base in question within airstrike range or has defending ships present? 

The only time I've seen something like that happen was when I detached some DD's from an invasion TF to sprint ahead and bombard the target base.  Instead, they sat there and refused to advance at all; I was wondering if the base was too far within airstrike range of other bases so the TF commander felt he wouldn't be able to withdraw far enough after bombarding.  Every other bombardment TF has worked just fine though.

(in reply to mark24)
Post #: 44
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 6:43:52 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mullk

Sorry but us Air Force guys think roughing it is when you are in billiting rather than in a hotel...



Reminds me of that old joke about each of the four services being ordered to "secure that building."

The Marines charged it with covering fire, blew it up, and stood in the rubble growling.

The Army maneuvered around behind, stormed the back door, set up sentries, and painted everything not moving with bright, white paint.

The Navy walked in, checked the status of the gas meter, the stove, and the circuit breakers, made out the log book, then went to sleep with their eyes open.

The Air Force signed a one-year lease with option to renew, hired an maid, and went golfing . . .


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The Moose

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Post #: 45
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 6:49:02 PM   
pmelheck1

 

Posts: 610
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From: Alabama
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Can't tell you how nice it is when the capt isn't telling me to "take that position" but rather I tell him "go get um sport I'll be at the club sucking down a cold one when you get back"

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Post #: 46
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 6:56:27 PM   
sermil

 

Posts: 65
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From: Geneva, Switzerland
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Please put this thread aside and let it be forgotten. Open a new discussion. I didn't mean all I've said because of my anger and frustration. What I really meant was that I will not participate to this forum any longer and tend to other occupations. Do forgive me.

(in reply to pmelheck1)
Post #: 47
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 8:04:19 PM   
Tazo


Posts: 85
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Toulouse, France
Status: offline
 
About Bombardment TF, in principle the mission needs special ammo (ground explosive shells, no armor penetration) so maybe a requirement is to give the
mision in a supplied port to get the ordonnance. So detaching escort DDs without proper shells is not a good idea. In principle after 1 bombardment and 1 surface
combat or 2 surface combats a TF should go replenish or will have to refuse combat and dangerous orders. Always check the main guns ammo. 

But Semil tried to attack cargos I think, and to immitate the historical attempts (like the Savo battle, august 9) it is necessary to move in the island coastal hexes
using waypoints and returning far away (with full nav-nav shells, no bombardment shells or mission) in order to cross by night the target hex containing the suspected 
enemy convoy and then a support enemy TF may also interact. This is a good plan. Surprise and first detection will play a role in the first rounds... on the 9 of
august the japaneses had the surprise for them and hurted badly two cruiser squadrons but didn't dare to continue looking fo some cargos after the cruiser clashes.
A bad inspiration of the "tactical commander" (the AI desengagement test or no detection test) but a good plan of the amirauty (the player), together with a bad
performance of the US cruisers and crews (the surprise dice rool, and the game combat engine/routine/data). Easily reproducted by the game but may lead to
various other outcomes, and also depends on the US carriers attitude (north to screen and intercept or south to defend).


_____________________________

There is only two kinds of operational plans, good ones and bad ones.
The good ones almost always fail under unexpected circumstances that often make the bad ones succeed.
-- Napoléon.

With AE immortality is no more a curse.
-- A lucky man.

(in reply to sermil)
Post #: 48
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 11:18:39 PM   
mark24

 

Posts: 171
Joined: 8/4/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Damaged ships?  Cautious TF commander?  Ships out of ammo or low on fuel?  Is the base in question within airstrike range or has defending ships present? 

The only time I've seen something like that happen was when I detached some DD's from an invasion TF to sprint ahead and bombard the target base.  Instead, they sat there and refused to advance at all; I was wondering if the base was too far within airstrike range of other bases so the TF commander felt he wouldn't be able to withdraw far enough after bombarding.  Every other bombardment TF has worked just fine though.


Yes, the base was Canton Island & enemy air was present, but essentially grounded due to carrier strikes. Other than that they were fully fuelled & undamaged.

Mark

(in reply to John Lansford)
Post #: 49
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 11:22:36 PM   
jjax


Posts: 289
Joined: 2/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Osterhaut

Youremind me of a little girl whose boyfriend doesnt wnat to be her boyfriend anymore because she has pimmples.



. I must admit, its a good analogy..well perhaps the roles are reversed but it was funny.

< Message edited by jjax -- 8/11/2009 11:25:09 PM >


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Post #: 50
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 11:41:54 PM   
dpstafford


Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford
Don't know what you're doing wrong, but my bombardment TF's are performing just like they're supposed to.  They run up to the target, bombard and then withdraw to their home base.  I'm in the general campaign as well and have done this numerous times, with different ships and it has worked every time as I described.  Maybe you are telling the TF to remain on station?  When I did that the TF would bombard until the ammo level got too low, then they turned into surface warfare TF's.

Most, if no all, of mine have been surface TF's. Hoping to engage the enemy at night and slip way during the day. This always worked in WITP, but has yet to work for me in AE. Fortunately, my opponent's Betty's must have run out of torpedoes (at Saigon presumably), so I lived to fight another day. They engage, they fight, but then sit around resting on their laurels. (I am veteran enough not to have ordered remain-on-station).

Something has changed from WITP. Take an ASW TF, on station, for example. In WITP, if I flipped the toggle back to retire WITHOUT hitting return to PH, it would stay put for the night move and then start back during the day, the same day. In AE in doesn't start back until the NEXT day. Got to believe the two situations are related.

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Post #: 51
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/11/2009 11:48:49 PM   
dpstafford


Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Osterhaut

quote:

ORIGINAL: dpstafford

Was watching the Colbert Report and heard him say "You can make an omlet without beraking eggs. It is just a bad omlet." maybe somebody who says they are form the Colbert Nation should pay some more attention to what he says. I have played this game in testing until I am very tired but i still like it very much. I think your sour grapes are making your mouth very spherical. I know a developer and know he looks and thinks carefully at what people say, but I think your attitude is bad. I would not listen to you.

You remind me of a little girl whose boyfriend doesnt wnat to be her boyfriend anymore because she has pimmples.


That's rich! Coming from someone named Heather.

And in the spirit of Colbert, all I'm am trying to do is point out the broken eggs. Before someone gets yolks all over their pom-poms.






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Post #: 52
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/12/2009 12:03:16 AM   
dpstafford


Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
Ignore him. Punch the little green button and his whining will never bother you again.

By all means, block me! Because talking to a cheerleader is like, well, talking to a cheerleader........

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Post #: 53
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/12/2009 12:10:23 AM   
Whisper

 

Posts: 121
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From: LA
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Aksually, I'd rather talk to a cute intelligent cheerleader, than an obviously psychologically disturbed person like yourself. Maybe you should go somewhere esle.

I have to say I laughed a lot over Osterhaut's post, but also have to say that most families down here have 12 year olds with a little more maturity than u do, but most of the 12 year olds down here are cheerleaders or majorettes in the band.

< Message edited by Whisper -- 8/12/2009 12:26:19 AM >


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Post #: 54
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/12/2009 12:22:46 AM   
dpstafford


Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whisper

Aksually, I'd rather talk to a cute intelligent cheerleader, than an obviously psychologically disturbed person like yourself. Maybe you should go somewhere esle.

Unfortunately, you aren't cute or intelligent.

And besides, it's my psychologically disturbed mind which gives me my edge, Heather!

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Post #: 55
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/12/2009 12:23:12 AM   
pompack


Posts: 2582
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whisper

Aksually, I'd rather talk to a cute intelligent cheerleader, than an obviously psychologically disturbed person like yourself. Maybe you should go somewhere esle.


Ah Whisper, you are just feeding him. Never feed a troll, it just encourages them

(in reply to Whisper)
Post #: 56
RE: AE my conclusion - 8/12/2009 12:30:23 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
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Ok guys, that is it. No personal insults on this forum. If you can't have a civil discussion, find a different forum. Note, this is not aimed at pompack, he was just the last one to post.

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Post #: 57
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