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RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE

 
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RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 4:45:29 PM   
Xargun

 

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From: Near Columbus, Ohio
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jjax
Funny thing is that I never noticed heavy bombers sucking up supply in WITP. But there have been more than a few times when i had to rush supplies to a base to keep them flying in AE. So maybe.


Is it that or the ability to have 50k supplies everywhere is no longer the case for the allies ? Also, how are you doing keeping the suckers repaired enough to fly ?

Xargun

(in reply to jjax)
Post #: 31
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 4:49:51 PM   
jjax


Posts: 289
Joined: 2/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

Is it that or the ability to have 50k supplies everywhere is no longer the case for the allies ?



That could be it as well.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

Also, how are you doing keeping the suckers repaired enough to fly ?



Not great! Something else that AE seems to be making me pay more attention to .

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--JJAX


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Post #: 32
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 4:54:14 PM   
EUBanana


Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun
Is it that or the ability to have 50k supplies everywhere is no longer the case for the allies ?


Well, not sure. But I have a 10k supply run going from Townsville to Port Moresby in my Guad scenario game which fits into the port and unloads in a day or so. It isn't far from Townsville to PM, but that convoy is non-stop, and even then I have to top PM up with additional shipping every so often.

quote:


Also, how are you doing keeping the suckers repaired enough to fly ?

Xargun


There isn't anything you can do about that. Aviation support is not my limiting factor, airbase stacking limits are (5 squadrons at PM - 1 P38, 3 B17/B24, 1 Dauntless), so the planes are always in the white. I can muster up 30 heavies in one go, which becomes 20 heavies the next day due to maintenance/damage. Its one or two raids a week normally.

In WITP I'd have nigh on 100 B17s in Port Moresby in that scenario within 2 or 3 weeks.

So the difference is marked.

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Post #: 33
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 5:11:35 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		You build ports first, then airfields. In WITP port size hardly mattered.

You get enough Aks but you better protect those tankers.....

BBs are fat ugly gas hogs. Best not to use them in 1942 as you will not have an gas left.

As the Japanese you close down Allied air by sweeping with zeros first then bomb to close down the air base. Allied air to air combat will kill you just about as easy as you kill them. Overwhelm the base, close the base and kill the planes on the gound. In early 1942, the Allied shortage is airframes, not pilots. Even AVG can be shut down this way.

Fear the PT boat.





< Message edited by crsutton -- 8/24/2009 5:22:04 PM >

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Post #: 34
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 5:16:16 PM   
DrewMatrix


Posts: 1429
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline 		Atolls can't be defended due to the stacking limits. The other side can always bring up enough ships/LCUs/CVs to take anything you put on the atoll. This makes things more fluid. The only solution I see is to attrit the other side's ships/LCUs/CVs slowly.



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Beezle - Rapidly running out of altitude, airspeed and ideas.

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Post #: 35
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 6:17:30 PM   
John Lansford

 

Posts: 2662
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline 		The AI retook Canton from me by landing 13,000 men at one time, overwhelming my defense battalion I had there.  So far they've not been successful in getting those men off that barren rock thanks to my constant SW TF's patrolling the area, and it's been weeks since they took it from me.  I sure hope those coconut husks taste good, guys...

(in reply to DrewMatrix)
Post #: 36
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 6:42:15 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

The AI retook Canton from me by landing 13,000 men at one time, overwhelming my defense battalion I had there.  So far they've not been successful in getting those men off that barren rock thanks to my constant SW TF's patrolling the area, and it's been weeks since they took it from me.  I sure hope those coconut husks taste good, guys...


Shouldn't that have a 6,000 troop limit? How did they land that many? *


*Pretend I didn't read the manual yet.

(in reply to John Lansford)
Post #: 37
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 7:51:11 PM   
Smeulders

 

Posts: 1879
Joined: 8/9/2009
Status: offline 		The limit isn't really a hard limit, rather, if you go over 6000 they will begin to suffer penalties for supply, disruption and the like (not sure what exactly). This way it's possible to send in big enough forces to take the place, but garrisons over the limit will be very costly to maintain.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 38
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 7:56:06 PM   
DrewMatrix


Posts: 1429
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, that 's the point. Steady state you can't leave more than 6,000 there (or they attrit I gather). But you can land twice that, take the atoll, then move 1/2 those off, leaving 6,000 so he can do it back to you.

I suspect the only way to hold an Atoll the other side wants is to control the water around the atoll permanently (which makes sense).



_____________________________


Beezle - Rapidly running out of altitude, airspeed and ideas.

(in reply to Smeulders)
Post #: 39
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 8:23:11 PM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		Have to say you guys make this the best game forum I have ever been on. Thanks for the great replies, I have a LOT to think about.

Some more question:

- Do auto-supply convoys actually work now?
It used to work sort-of-ok for me in WitP for the eastern most pacific outposts I had like the Palmyra's of the world working ok, but anything else would be doomed to sinkings and failure. I would love to put New Zealand on a routine auto-supply for instance.

- What level do you leave your training squadrons at? I used to leave them at 80% but is that catastrophic now?

- What is an xAK??????? (hint to the devs, having a mouse hover action for shiptype would be sweet. ie I hover the curson over xAK and a little pop up comes up with the full name or something)

- Is the airbase cap based on squadrons or # of planes? Damn I need to start taking notes lol

- Do you guys actually waste time pushing squadrons with withdrawal dates forward? Seems like a waste of time/logistics to push something forward that is due to leave in 6 months.

- A lot of air units in the Dec 7 campaign are set not to upgrade or replenish - is this because they are due to upgrade?

Strategically for me the first 6 months of the war I would try to do a few things:
- Train, Train, Train, Train, Train. I train everything, ship crews, air units, and let my LCU's replenish their strength. In WitP support was rare and I would need to be very careful letting that build.
- Turn PH into a fortress
- Reinforce/Secure my supply chain from the US to Australia
- Fight a delaying action in DEI/Malaysia/Burma/PI
- Secure as much sea lift/Resources from DEI as I can - usually taking as much as I can down to Darwin while moving supplies to Singapore.
- Establish a supply run from Aden to Karachi and Karachi to India
- Turn AI on to fight the morass in China lol Oh well can't do that anymore.
- I hold my CV's in reserve only to punish any over extensions. The never leave a land based air umbrella. This is only after all the CV's upgrade to F4F's.

That pretty much still the SOP?

< Message edited by The Gnome -- 8/24/2009 8:25:47 PM >

(in reply to DrewMatrix)
Post #: 40
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 9:15:27 PM   
AHFlattop

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 1/16/2007
Status: offline 		What WITP players should know for AE, Hmm..........

After my first 9 days as Allies...

1. Love those TF route options such as Waypoints, follow TF with variable standoff distances, patrol areas. Just another layer of decisions but it saved dozen ships so far. My TFs retreat from surface and air threats unless set to Direct.
2.Now I have to convert LCUs to Stat Movement before loading onto ships. Keep forgetting to do that. More Or status options for using rest for rear area bases.
3. Have to think about port size and ship size for logistics
4. Now I have to think about how I'm going to rearm or fuel my ships.
5. The offmap and holding boxes and Cvy units are a nice addtion. Makes the game more realistic.

Its been fun so far.

(in reply to The Gnome)
Post #: 41
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 9:23:03 PM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 3141
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Gnome

- What level do you leave your training squadrons at? I used to leave them at 80% but is that catastrophic now?

- What is an xAK??????? (hint to the devs, having a mouse hover action for shiptype would be sweet. ie I hover the curson over xAK and a little pop up comes up with the full name or something)



40 seem to be the sweet spot in my experience. 50 = ever increasing fatigue which means ops losses at some point and dead pilots.

x before AK or AP means its a civilian vessel as opposed to a purposely build for military use.
In effect it means xAK has fewer cranes and such and there for unloads slower if unloading not docked.

So xAK unload slower than a AK that again unloads slower than a AKA "over the beach" and same with APs.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 8/24/2009 9:26:21 PM >

(in reply to The Gnome)
Post #: 42
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 10:07:29 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		The MOST important thing to realize -

AE is NOT WITP.

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to Walloc)
Post #: 43
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 10:10:58 PM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

The MOST important thing to realize -

AE is NOT WITP.


Yeah I am swallowing the bitter pill and reading the manual It hurtss our eyessss precioussss

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 44
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 10:24:51 PM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Gnome

- What is an xAK??????? (hint to the devs, having a mouse hover action for shiptype would be sweet. ie I hover the curson


x means it is a civilian vessel commandeered or borrowed from the merchant fleet. It is still an AK for usage purposes, it just doesn't have the military additions a militarized AK would have (like heavier onboard lift for example).



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Post #: 45
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 11:06:10 PM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		So pretty much xAK's are great for schlepping supplies to larger ports?

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 46
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 11:22:36 PM   
Sonny II

 

Posts: 2878
Joined: 1/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

The MOST important thing to realize -

AE is NOT WITP.



Shhhhhh! You weren't supposed to tell.

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 47
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 11:24:54 PM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 3141
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Gnome

So pretty much xAK's are great for schlepping supplies to larger ports?


Basicly yes. My experience since u dont have that many AKs that they in a pinch can be used to unload over the beach just dont expect it to go very fast. Naval support squads will help a bit tho. More of question of necessity than desire as ur in essence right.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

(in reply to The Gnome)
Post #: 48
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 11:25:02 PM   
WITPPL


Posts: 290
Joined: 8/5/2009
Status: offline 		1. Carrier Based Planes Ranges.
2. Betties are better in an Airfield missions than Naval ones.
3. Zeroes are good but not Uber.
4. allied overall supremacy pops up earlier
5. Your back is still on fire after 2nd hour at work but not after 27th hour playing.


(in reply to The Gnome)
Post #: 49
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 11:31:21 PM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		Gah, ok starting my first turn... send a search party if no one hears from me for a few days...

(in reply to WITPPL)
Post #: 50
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/24/2009 11:43:41 PM   
IS2m

 

Posts: 194
Joined: 5/2/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

The AI is much more aggressive, stubborn, and opportunistic than it was in WitP.  It will do stupid things but it will also surprise you too.

However, if it's current rate of major ship loss continues for much longer, it will have no surface fleet to speak of by the end of 1942.  Six CA's, a BB, a CVL, and about 2 dozen DD's have been sunk by my forces before the end of February 42, mostly in surface battles and by submarines.  Kongo was sunk by a 300 kg bomb dropped by a lucky Dutch pilot.



Kongo committed suicide against a Dutch minefield in my current game against the AI.....
I do appreciate the more aggressive AI though, kudos to the programmers. On the other hand, it should have learned by now to stop sending wave after wave of unescorted Betty's to their doom against my now 'elite' Buffalo pilots.

(in reply to John Lansford)
Post #: 51
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/25/2009 12:39:56 AM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		Oh snap, here is a big change:

I'm going through the US and disbanding/withdrawing skeletal air units, setting up training missions, and trying to set leaders. Leaders all seem to take ~100 days to get paired with the unit!! WOW!

Is this because the leader isn't trained yet? I sorted the leader list on "travel time" and everyone is set to 399. Where is everyone hiding?

(in reply to IS2m)
Post #: 52
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/25/2009 3:03:15 AM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Gnome

So pretty much xAK's are great for schlepping supplies to larger ports?


They can be used in amphib TFs to unload at the smaller ports. Don't expect heavy equipment to unload fast if at all though.


_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

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Post #: 53
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/25/2009 5:32:30 AM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		What a difference when you get to do an invasion with AP and AKA's can't wait till I get APA's. Even doing small invasions with xAP and xAK it was a week (13 days on one operation) to get everything unloaded. With AP/AKA it took 2 days to unload 2 regiments with support. Life is getting better.

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 54
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/25/2009 2:55:03 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Gnome
- What level do you leave your training squadrons at? I used to leave them at 80% but is that catastrophic now?

Strategically for me the first 6 months of the war I would try to do a few things:
- Train, Train, Train, Train, Train. I train everything, ship crews, air units, and let my LCU's replenish their strength. In WitP support was rare and I would need to be very careful letting that build.
- Turn PH into a fortress
- Reinforce/Secure my supply chain from the US to Australia
- Fight a delaying action in DEI/Malaysia/Burma/PI
- Secure as much sea lift/Resources from DEI as I can - usually taking as much as I can down to Darwin while moving supplies to Singapore.
- Establish a supply run from Aden to Karachi and Karachi to India
- Turn AI on to fight the morass in China lol Oh well can't do that anymore.
- I hold my CV's in reserve only to punish any over extensions. The never leave a land based air umbrella. This is only after all the CV's upgrade to F4F's.

That pretty much still the SOP?

For REMF aircraft-away from the front lines-I set my training to 70-80% when I have it on. I 'hard code' the other 20-30% of their time as rest, rather than leaving it 'unallocated'. I haven't noticed appreciable fatigue with this training schedule.

I'm torn about training. Sure, I do some of it, but if a unit is training, it's not transferring or moving or in a fighting position or away from the front recuperating. It's also taking up supplies. I occasionally get messages re: OPs losses associated with training. Training is not a completely innocuous activity.

I think unit 'Rest', particularly for those units deprived of sufficient supply or support is underappreciated in this game. Most of my LCU positions are resting most of the time.

Maybe I am more open to commiting my CVs than you say you are. If there are IJN overextensions, I will consider committing as a punitive measure for the overextension. This may require them leaving the air umbrella altogether, as they did IRL. It's a risk, but if I wait until I have local air superiority in deploying and using my CVs, it will be late 1943 or early 1944 before they will do me much good beyond a fleet in being. I'm not Halsey, but I'm not Ghormley, either.

(in reply to The Gnome)
Post #: 55
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/25/2009 5:03:35 PM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		There was a quote that I live by when defending from some german infantry officer:

"The MLR is the warriors shield, the reserve is his sword."

I like to take swipes with my carriers from time to time, but never want to over extend them. They definitely don't sit in Pearl though ;)

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 56
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/26/2009 3:00:03 PM   
morganbj


Posts: 3634
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

For REMF aircraft ...

It's been a long time since I heard the term "REMF." I wonder how many folks out there even know what it means.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 57
RE: 5 Things a WitP player should know coming to AE - 8/26/2009 3:46:25 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		In AE, when you upgrade a squadron to a new model a/c, it can takes weeks until all the planes are ready. Beware when upgrading carrier squadrons!

(in reply to morganbj)
Post #: 58
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