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Are Mortars inbalanced?

 
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Are Mortars inbalanced? - 8/29/2009 9:32:24 PM   
TheArchduke


Posts: 407
Joined: 2/7/2008
Status: offline 		After playing a Operation Barbarossa game through '42 against an opponent who uses 50-60 mortars in his attack units (covered by 20-30 rifles or 2-3 tanks) I have to wonder, are they inbalanced as being rear area and good in attack against everything.

I had the most obscene results whilst fighting against or with mortar überstacks..
Post #: 1
RE: Are Mortars inbalanced? - 8/29/2009 10:37:54 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		It's been discussed a few times about mortars being more cost effective than infantry. In random games, I tend to build mortars over any other infantry sftype.

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RE: Are Mortars inbalanced? - 8/30/2009 8:48:01 AM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Tons of mortars covered by rifle and/or tanks are VERY powerful.
Had the same bad experience like you long time ago.

It´s like the stack limit for planes. Play with houserules.
Let´s say rifle-mortar-ratio 10:1 or max number of mortars per unit 5.
Something like this.

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 3
RE: Are Mortars inbalanced? - 8/30/2009 10:30:58 AM   
Joshuatree

 

Posts: 507
Joined: 12/30/2007
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		I agree with Seille here, mortars are quite powerful, therefore I never put more than 5 in an unit. 50 to 60 mortars in an unit I consider to be a game exploit, which should be prevented by house rules.

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Post #: 4
RE: Are Mortars inbalanced? - 8/30/2009 11:50:47 AM   
82ndtrooper


Posts: 1083
Joined: 12/19/2008
From: tennessee
Status: offline 		motors are very powerful in large numbers. but they are more effective when they are attacking so attack them first. fighters kill them and so does arty.  armored cars and lights tanks do also.  2 or 3 pronged attacks are good against any units.
but the key to motors is to attack them first if you see a uber stack.


House rules are a good choice to stop this like noted above.

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Post #: 5
RE: Are Mortars inbalanced? - 9/1/2009 2:25:08 AM   
jjdenver

 

Posts: 2247
Joined: 11/2/2007
Status: offline 		Agree, mortars are too strong. A house rule to restrict units to 1 mortar per 10 infantry/smg/conscript/militia or part thereof is a good idea I think. So:
1-10 inf type sft unit can have 1 mortar
11-20 inf type sft unit can have 2 mortar
21-30 inf type sft unit can have 3 mortar
etc

This keeps it in balance I think. If a unit is reduced out of proportion by combat losses the unit has to be brought back into line w/ the ratio w/in a reasonable amount of time, a few turns.

In diplomacy games that I've played in the past I've seen opponents build a ton of mortars so I like the house rule approach.

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Post #: 6
RE: Are Mortars inbalanced? - 9/1/2009 3:31:38 PM   
Appren


Posts: 179
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline 		Mortars are strong indeed, but die easy to air power, which is the real "overpowered" thing in AT :)

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Post #: 7
RE: Are Mortars inbalanced? - 9/1/2009 5:09:23 PM   
GrumpyMel

 

Posts: 864
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		Probably mortars, air and artillery are all a little bit overpowered (IMO)..... not that they aren't darn powerful in real-life, but they are a little bit too much of the "I win" unit in the game I think.

Fortunately, the engine has alot of tools to tweak those units....so I think playing around with those SFT's a bit might be able to yield some good results. I've been meaning to try a project with those SFT's and see if I could play a bit with some tweaks to change the balance a little bit.

One of the things about mortars I always wondered about was why they had such good combat values against armor. I don't think historicaly they were particulary effective against armor (at least if it was buttoned up).... perhaps nerfing their combat abilities against armor
might help balance them a bit more.

After-all, being a rear area unit...means that they are only really vulnerable when on defense. If an attacker knew that his mega-stack of mortars would get chewed up on every armored counter-attack.... he might be a bit inclined to disperse them a bit more....and put some more bazookas or AT guns in his stacks for protection. Might make them a bit more rock, paper, scissors then they are now.





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Post #: 8
RE: Are Mortars inbalanced? - 9/1/2009 5:21:31 PM   
SSFSX17

 

Posts: 182
Joined: 10/14/2001
From: California
Status: offline 		If I ever have enough time to create the Advanced_to_the_17th mod, I'll try out the following changes:

- Change Mortars to cost 250 production, but only have 3 attacks, and reduce effectiveness vs. armor
- Artillery (and in my mod, S.P. Artillery and Long-Range Artillery) eat more supply. It's not easy to support the logistics for a constant shelling.
- Short-ranged pieces (Infantry Gun, Anti-Tank Gun & Flak) eat less supply and/or weigh less.

(in reply to GrumpyMel)
Post #: 9
RE: Are Mortars inbalanced? - 9/1/2009 11:39:38 PM   
TPM

 

Posts: 349
Joined: 2/8/2007
Status: offline 		I totally agree with the last change...I've been working on a simple Barbarossa scenario (isn't everyone?) where those units (Infantry Gun, AT, and Flak) are basically "halved"--half the cost, half the weight, half the firepower, etc. In the vanilla game, those units are so expensive and heavy that you rarely ever use them...

quote:

ORIGINAL: SSFSX17

If I ever have enough time to create the Advanced_to_the_17th mod, I'll try out the following changes:

- Change Mortars to cost 250 production, but only have 3 attacks, and reduce effectiveness vs. armor
- Artillery (and in my mod, S.P. Artillery and Long-Range Artillery) eat more supply. It's not easy to support the logistics for a constant shelling.
- Short-ranged pieces (Infantry Gun, Anti-Tank Gun & Flak) eat less supply and/or weigh less.


(in reply to SSFSX17)
Post #: 10
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