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RE: I am disappointed - 9/26/2009 8:30:58 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1447
Joined: 11/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves

quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

I have to admit I feel ripped off. $60 ($70 with shipping) is way to much for an old game like this. For a $70 game,I expect much more. It looks old and plays like an old game. I shouldn't have to mess with my settings to get it to run.That annoying hourglass problem,shaky,lags in scrolling,lousy graphics. The game is WAY overpriced. I would return it if I could.







That would kind of beg the question as to why did you buy it then ? I can say for me personally I knew - as it was clearly explained by matrix .. what they were doing with this game ... there was surely enough information out there for you to know what you were getting ... ?


Exactly. There's no excuse for not being informed about this; the product info screen for the game has been there for months and months, as has the forum.

Sorry Terminus, I just don't see anything more then a $60 patch. It can't even scroll properly if anything is highlighted.Where does it tell me that in the product info screen?

< Message edited by vonRocko -- 9/26/2009 8:35:50 PM >

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 31
RE: I am disappointed - 9/26/2009 8:36:57 PM   
Dixie


Posts: 10303
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
Status: offline 		I'm liking it.  Whilst the interface is dated, under the hood things are (in my opinion) looking good.

Multiple waypoints, 4 waypoints on each leg make it easier to avoid flak traps or disguise your true targets.
Recce kites now take multiple pics per mission, combined with waypoints you can photo large parts of Germany much quicker than before.
Fighter bombers are not just bombers.  I had a Typhoon wing conducting a running fight back across France, whilst they did come off second best against the 190s they managed to shoot down several attackers, even bouncing a pair of 109s.  They can also carry out fighter sweeps.
I've had Beaufighters and Mossies intercept German NFs in the bomber stream, not just in the landing circuit.
The ability to drag and drop the escort fighter waypoints makes it a lot easier to actually plan your fighter cover.
Whilst it's a bit murky to those not 'in the know' the altitude bands seem to make a difference.  Mustang Is and Typhoons are good down low matching the 190s in fighter combat, even the clipped Spit Vs are decent down low.


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Post #: 32
RE: I am disappointed - 9/26/2009 8:47:09 PM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
Status: offline 		Ehh, I'll think I'll wait a bit for this one.

I was disappointed in the Battleground re-releases, as they were essentially the same old games....no improvements what-so ever.I was more than happy with JTCS, a quantum leap over the originals with new countries, utilities, new units and other improvements I can't even list them all in this post.Same with WitP:AE.From what it sounds like, this needs a few patches to come out and a fan base to establish....and an editor.

As for the resolution....this is not a deal breaker for me.Although it would be very nice to get higher resolutions especially if we are paying $60-$100 each for these games.

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Post #: 33
RE: I am disappointed - 9/26/2009 8:49:42 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Sorry Terminus, I just don't see anything more then a $60 patch. It can't even scroll properly if anything is highlighted.Where does it tell me that in the product info screen?

some of this is not really fair, this is not "the" game that is at fault, it is the computer that is running the game, something about how some of these computers work, does not match what the rest do, we are working on trying to tell these computers who to do, so that they work like the rest of the computers

and since none of our computers acted like this in testing, it came as a shock the number of people having trouble with it




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Post #: 34
RE: I am disappointed - 9/26/2009 9:05:24 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Hard Sarge...does any of your development team have quad core PCs?

Also, the only way I can get rid of the lag on the map when highlighting targets is to switch off directdraw, which then causes graphical glitches. The game is not playable for me.

As I said in the support forum, I don't mind waiting, but I do hope this is resolved in a patch asap. And I'm a bit skeptical...it sounds to me like switching DirectDraw off will be an automated thing in the patch...if that's the case, after applying the patch, I'm going to have a game interface which scrolls fine, but leaves graphical glitches everywhere...

My system is (and I'll update my tech thread...I should know better!)
Windows XP SP3
nVidia Geforce 8800GT 512MB
Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 @2.33GHz
4GB Ram

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 35
RE: I am disappointed - 9/26/2009 10:39:17 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		I think HS has one, he is usually up to date with his computer.
For me it runs well on a Vista duo core intel PC and on my laptop

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Post #: 36
RE: I am disappointed - 9/26/2009 10:49:35 PM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		I'm not going to buy it right now, but that doesn't make it a bad game. Matrix couldn't have been clearer on what it was delivering. And we customers are free to question the price.

However, anyone who had never played the originals is out of their cotton pickin' mind not to pick this one up. I wish I hadn't bought the first two, so I could enjoy this one. If we get an editor, I'm buying!

(in reply to gunnergoz)
Post #: 37
RE: I am disappointed - 9/27/2009 1:30:50 AM   
harley


Posts: 1700
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Hard Sarge...does any of your development team have quad core PCs?

My system is (and I'll update my tech thread...I should know better!)
Windows XP SP3
nVidia Geforce 8800GT 512MB
Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 @2.33GHz
4GB Ram


Me, as said in the support forum.

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Post #: 38
RE: I am disappointed - 9/27/2009 3:00:03 AM   
madflava13


Posts: 1530
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline 		I'm excited for this one. I played the old BTR to death, and used to lurk in JCL's old forum back in the day. I haven't purchased yet because I'm between paychecks. To those who are complaining, this is a great game - it's more about the "under the hood" stuff than graphics.

Hard Sarge, Harley and the others - thanks for all your efforts on this.

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Post #: 39
RE: I am disappointed - 9/27/2009 3:08:19 AM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
Status: offline 		For me it has to qualify:

-Does it have new scenarios?
-Editor?
-Something that is a dramatic change for the better?(Like how JTCS has new Countries and units, or how CoG:EE has new Naval Combat)

You say "under the hood" but then it basicly just becomes a $50 patch since it doesn't bring anything new to the table.So the all the bugs are ironed out, isn't that what a patch does?

I'll probably get this anyway because I never had the originals, but from what I've read so far it doesn't bring of enough new content to be worth $50 if you already have the game.

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Post #: 40
RE: I am disappointed - 9/27/2009 3:26:32 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		V22,

quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey
You say "under the hood" but then it basicly just becomes a $50 patch since it doesn't bring anything new to the table.So the all the bugs are ironed out, isn't that what a patch does?

I'll probably get this anyway because I never had the originals, but from what I've read so far it doesn't bring of enough new content to be worth $50 if you already have the game.


It's not just a patch, a lot more work than a patch went into this and it delivers what was promised. Read through the forum and see how the folks who are familiar with the originals are enjoying it. The goal was to extend the life of these games for years to come as nothing better is really on the horizon.


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(in reply to V22 Osprey)
Post #: 41
RE: I am disappointed - 9/27/2009 3:38:30 AM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
Status: offline 		Erik, I was basing this off what I've read so far.Like I said, I'm getting this anyway.

< Message edited by V22 Osprey -- 9/27/2009 3:41:15 AM >

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Post #: 42
RE: I am disappointed - 9/27/2009 4:42:12 AM   
Crocky


Posts: 417
Joined: 12/4/2001
From: Christchurch New Zealand
Status: offline 		Bought it playing it loving it well worth it havent hit any problems yet so IMHO its something that will stay on my PC for years and i will get heaps of enjoyment out of it .... played for around 24hrs in total so far $ 2.00 an hour is ....cheap entertainment

< Message edited by Crocky -- 9/27/2009 4:44:33 AM >

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Post #: 43
RE: I am disappointed - 9/27/2009 5:36:06 AM   
harley


Posts: 1700
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Crocky

played for around 24hrs in total so far $ 2.00 an hour is ....cheap entertainment


Good effort so quickly. Guys like HARD Sarge are probably in the sub-cent per hour off the original game. I believe I spent more time tweaking and dissecting the game than I did playing it, but that meant I knew where the bodies were buried when I got the code...

My favourite fix was the one that stops the attacking AI from knowing where your planes were - before Matrix we argued whether there was some AI knowledge in there, and were always told NO... Well, there was. Now the AI scans every airfield, and weights the value of attack against the presence of AA, The presence of a unit, and the most recent recon. Without the recon, it won't know, and will be unlikely to attack, or get caned if it does.

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Post #: 44
RE: I am disappointed - 9/27/2009 6:29:03 AM   
Larac

 

Posts: 250
Joined: 9/5/2004
Status: offline 		Eric and BoB team,

Thank you for making this remake, I missed the original game, and Matrix going back and setting it up so I can play such great games, without resorting to DoS Box and such is really nice.

Hopefully many younger folks will now be able to play these titles and get a understanding that pretty and flashy does not mean good.

So I hope it sells well enough for others to be brought out over time, at mid forties I find my self liking all types of games, from Plants Vs Zombies to the new Batman game, but I find that I end up learning more from playing a good war game.

I'll play some then look up facts and battles to understand more of what happened, then play more.

Good Luck to Matrix and the BoB Team, next months check will be buying this one.

Lee

(in reply to Mac Linehan)
Post #: 45
RE: I am disappointed - 9/27/2009 6:57:57 AM   
TechSgt

 

Posts: 306
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
My favorite BtR fix?
My fighters won't be heading off to the Northwest corner of the map, (0,0)! That to me alone, is worth the price.

Graphics? Did I miss something in the original? Maybe I was too busy plotting to notice?

I'm curious as to the "real need" for an editor? Let see...
I corrected a few mis-assigned squadrons, because I wasn't currently playing the latest patch.
I corrected a few mis-placed pilots, because I screwed up using the known detachment exploit!
I guess I could have changed that horrible Unit Commander, or maybe made a squadron of "super" bombers?

I am now waiting on "snail-mail" to deliver, (long dumb story about downloading, won't go into). I will admit, I am worried when I read the problem texts that have been showing up. I'm hoping my computer isn't going to be one that Hard Sarge wrote about not behaving like all the rest. The support seems to be there -- maybe not as speedy as some think it should be.

But, I see a interesting map mod in another thread, people working on "pink ME109 skins", and an active forum. I know we have a dedicated corp group.

I think we are in for a good era.

TS

(in reply to harley)
Post #: 46
RE: I am disappointed - 9/28/2009 4:16:35 PM   
kirbykern

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 2/14/2005
Status: offline 		Other than Defending the Reich no one and I mean NO ONE has even attempted to produce games covering this subject matter. And I don't see anyone producing games of this sort any time in the future.

As far as the price goes. HELLLOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! You're buying two entirely different games. Get over it. No one is holding a gun to your head and, yes, Matrix did an excellent job of setting expectations. Most the the complaints I've read are folks who did not or will not do the research up front and then complain that THEIR expectations were not met.

Sure, the performance bugs are a hassle but I think the Matrix team has recognized them and will deal with them post haste.

No, they are not NEW games but they are far, far more than a "patch". Read the available info:

A highly enhanced combination of Talonsoft's Battle of Britain and Twelve O'Clock High into a single game package
Increased historic pilot database to over 18,000 pilots
Richer detail across the entire game with more data tracked and displayed like ground kills by pilot and unit, pilot and aircraft losses by unit, pilot loss date and more
New nationalities including Axis Co-Belligerents, USSR and Brazil.
Numerous new aircraft types, units and locations.
New waypoints in the plotting options to allow detailed routing to avoid flak or mislead the enemy.
Added performance modifiers to all aircraft based on altitude and overall more realism with flight operations.
Simplified field-pak options for the Luftwaffe defender, and added new options for the Allied attacker
Fighter Bombers can now sweep and will attack.
Many AI improvements like better choice protocols on which airfields to strafe based on recent recon and flak deployment
Improved AI use of new planes
An all new accurate fuel-use model, allowing units to fly until they are “Bingo."

Plus we now have an active support team to deal with issues as they occur rather than only having the option of cussing at the computer.





(in reply to TechSgt)
Post #: 47
RE: I am disappointed - 9/28/2009 4:29:56 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		yea but I like cussing at the computer, been doing that almost 30 years now

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Post #: 48
RE: I am disappointed - 9/28/2009 5:10:40 PM   
kirbykern

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 2/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

yea but I like cussing at the computer, been doing that almost 30 years now


Ok, yes, but, now I'm not cussing about the lack of support for BoB and BtR. I have plenty of OTHER things to cuss about.

It's worse than you know. I cuss at mainframes all day at work and then go home and cuss at my PC.

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 49
RE: I am disappointed - 9/28/2009 6:01:28 PM   
Justascratch


Posts: 321
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline 		Back in the day when all this sort of traffic took place on bulliten boards vs forums, I remember giggling each time a newbie logged in to complain about the graphics used in X-Com. It went right past these folks that the game wasn't about hand eye coordination, but was meant to be an exercise in squad level action, resource management and above all the care and feeding of squad members.

I own and commited hundreds of hours to BOB and BTR back in the day and I am very grateful that back in the day has rolled around again with better AI and all the bugs I knew about gone. I one of my favorite games is now in the hands of folks who have proven over and over again that they really do give a d&%@ about it's future development.

THANKS MATRIX! Having a ball - glad you are here.

That said,
Is there any talk about starting from scratch and rebuilding a game that models this exciting bit of history from the ground up?

(in reply to kirbykern)
Post #: 50
RE: I am disappointed - 9/28/2009 7:54:44 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

yea but I like cussing at the computer, been doing that almost 30 years now


Causes improved operation of the machine. Well-known fact.

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Post #: 51
RE: I am disappointed - 9/28/2009 9:24:56 PM   
leftydad

 

Posts: 206
Joined: 8/24/2004
Status: offline 		As somebody who never played/owned BOB/RTR 15 years ago, I got this game over the weekend and I think it's great!!! Looks great to me on my widescreen, it's detailed, fun, addictive. I'm not disappointed. I'm delighted!

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Post #: 52
RE: I am disappointed - 9/28/2009 10:11:25 PM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3989
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: harley
Guys like HARD Sarge are probably in the sub-cent per hour off the original game. I believe I spent more time tweaking and dissecting the game than I did playing it, but that meant I knew where the bodies were buried when I got the code...


In a virtual place far away and long ago I think I their were two fellows who were experts at this game with very similar handles as Hard Sarge and Harely. It was not a TS site, but a BTR fan site. If that was you two guys, you could count your costs in nano cents of Pesos.


quote:

ORIGINAL
... - before Matrix we argued whether there was some AI knowledge in there,


And, a few other fine points of the game. I used to go there just for those discussions.

I will get this eventually, but my plate is full right now. I have the original BTR, but it won't play on my Vista machine. I have not played that game in years. When I did, it was an everyday occurrence for over a year-one Grand campaign and several small scenarios. It was a great game-no doubt it is even better now.


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Post #: 53
RE: I am disappointed - 9/29/2009 9:49:50 AM   
watchtower


Posts: 867
Joined: 8/2/2004
From: Republic of Kilburn. London UK
Status: offline 		The only thing i'm disappointed about is that I don't have enough 'play' hours to enjoy this little beauty again.

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Post #: 54
RE: I am disappointed - 9/29/2009 12:50:57 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro


quote:

ORIGINAL: harley
Guys like HARD Sarge are probably in the sub-cent per hour off the original game. I believe I spent more time tweaking and dissecting the game than I did playing it, but that meant I knew where the bodies were buried when I got the code...


In a virtual place far away and long ago I think I their were two fellows who were experts at this game with very similar handles as Hard Sarge and Harely. It was not a TS site, but a BTR fan site. If that was you two guys, you could count your costs in nano cents of Pesos.


quote:

ORIGINAL
... - before Matrix we argued whether there was some AI knowledge in there,


And, a few other fine points of the game. I used to go there just for those discussions.

I will get this eventually, but my plate is full right now. I have the original BTR, but it won't play on my Vista machine. I have not played that game in years. When I did, it was an everyday occurrence for over a year-one Grand campaign and several small scenarios. It was a great game-no doubt it is even better now.



I think it would be easier to list the people who were not from that forum who are here and working on the game (I even tried to refind and bring in Andrei)

so much info and detail was lost with that forum, it is really a shame

< Message edited by Hard Sarge -- 9/29/2009 12:52:55 PM >

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Post #: 55
RE: I am disappointed - 9/30/2009 6:56:01 AM   
terry1040

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 10/11/2000
From: The bright side of life
Status: offline 		It is great to see these games back after all these years.
I love the windows mode. Yes, everything is still a bit sluggish on my computer, but I am sure Matrix will fix this during the first patch.

Kudos to Harde Sarge and Team for spending all these years of hard work to put it together in one package.

If I would wish for something:
A way to manage all the daily data / results more efficiently (for instance in Excel).
I would love to see a text-report about what happended during the resolution phase and how my squadrons look like.

Beside that, this is just a fantastic release of an extremely interesting game.

Terry

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 56
RE: I am disappointed - 9/30/2009 8:22:54 AM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		I installed it last night. 1.7GHz twin core processor, 2GB RAM, Vista SP2 and it ran like a dream straight out the box. Ran it in windowed mode, moved the window around, checked my email for incoming AE turns, all as sweet as a nut. Thanks.

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(in reply to terry1040)
Post #: 57
RE: I am disappointed - 9/30/2009 5:16:43 PM   
TechSgt

 

Posts: 306
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: terry1040

...
If I would wish for something:
A way to manage all the daily data / results more efficiently (for instance in Excel).
I would love to see a text-report about what happended during the resolution phase and how my squadrons look like.

...

Terry


This is exactly my hope for the "windowed" mode. Open up a little side window in Excel to keep track of little tid-bits, EA unit locations, Target AAA, NF locations and types, enemy land unit movements, etc. Stuff I do by pencil for the old TOH.

TS

(in reply to terry1040)
Post #: 58
RE: I am disappointed - 9/30/2009 8:17:56 PM   
MajorDude


Posts: 199
Joined: 1/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TechSgt


quote:

ORIGINAL: terry1040

...
If I would wish for something:
A way to manage all the daily data / results more efficiently (for instance in Excel).
I would love to see a text-report about what happended during the resolution phase and how my squadrons look like.

...

Terry


This is exactly my hope for the "windowed" mode. Open up a little side window in Excel to keep track of little tid-bits, EA unit locations, Target AAA, NF locations and types, enemy land unit movements, etc. Stuff I do by pencil for the old TOH.

TS



/signed

(in reply to TechSgt)
Post #: 59
RE: I am disappointed - 9/30/2009 11:42:59 PM   
fbs

 

Posts: 1048
Joined: 12/25/2008
Status: offline
Changed the thread title, hahaha...

I still think the game can be so much more, but it is good entertainment.


Cheers
fbs

< Message edited by fbs -- 10/1/2009 12:33:46 AM >

(in reply to vonRocko)
Post #: 60
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