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RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 5:53:35 PM   
Dili

 

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Status: offline 		Yep makes sense.

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Post #: 91
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 6:12:32 PM   
Dili

 

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Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		I had forgot about this site, it is in French but the script is like yours, the French continue fighting on. Maybe some info there that might help you.

http://www.1940lafrancecontinue.org/index.htm

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 92
French Naval OOB - 10/1/2009 6:16:27 PM   
Terminus


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From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Here's the first of three posts on beginning OOB for the French in Indochina. Note that there's also going to be an expanded French presence in the South Pacific, but that'll come later.

For now, here's the starting strength of the Commandement Naval d'Indochine, headquartered at Cam Ranh Bay:

CA: Duquesne, Tourville.
CL: Lamotte-Picquet, Primaguet.
DD: Mogador, Bourrasque, Cyclone, Mistral, Tornade, Sirocco, Trombe.
SS: Redoutable, Archiméde, Fresnel, Pascal, Pasteur, Protée, Pégase.
PG: Amiral Charner, D'Entrecasteaux.
AMC: El Mansour, El Kantara.




< Message edited by Terminus -- 10/1/2009 6:42:06 PM >

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Post #: 93
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 6:16:56 PM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

I had forgot about this site, it is in French but the script is like yours, the French continue fighting on. Maybe some info there that might help you.

http://www.1940lafrancecontinue.org/index.htm


Bookmarked that one ages ago, and have been stealing a bit here and there.

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Post #: 94
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 6:22:05 PM   
Dili

 

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Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		You got in below website a fictional order of battle for Indochina in September 1941 with US equipemnt reinforcemnts including a Armoured unit with M2.

http://www.1940lafrancecontinue.org/FTL/annexes/1941/41-9-1_Indochine_09_41.htm

They put this Air Commands:Commandement Aérien d’Indochine (CAI), avec ses trois Zones Opérationnelles, Tonkin et Nord Laos (ZOTON, Hanoï), Annam et Centre/Sud Laos (ZOAL, Hué), Cochinchine et Cambodge (ZOCOC, Saïgon).


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Post #: 95
RE: French Naval OOB - 10/1/2009 6:29:45 PM   
chacal83000


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

For now, here's the starting strength of the Commandement Navale d'Indochine, headquartered at Cam Ranh Bay:


If I can remove a small quirk : it should be : Commandement Naval d'Indochine as you say "Un Commandement Naval" contrary to "Une Force Navale"...

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Post #: 96
RE: French Naval OOB - 10/1/2009 6:40:58 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Thanks. It's called "CNI" in the scenario, so...

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Post #: 97
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 6:41:39 PM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

You got in below website a fictional order of battle for Indochina in September 1941 with US equipemnt reinforcemnts including a Armoured unit with M2.

http://www.1940lafrancecontinue.org/FTL/annexes/1941/41-9-1_Indochine_09_41.htm

They put this Air Commands:Commandement Aérien d’Indochine (CAI), avec ses trois Zones Opérationnelles, Tonkin et Nord Laos (ZOTON, Hanoï), Annam et Centre/Sud Laos (ZOAL, Hué), Cochinchine et Cambodge (ZOCOC, Saïgon).




I don't want to copy it completely. Look for an air OOB later.

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Post #: 98
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 7:18:41 PM   
Dili

 

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Status: offline 		Sure part of the fun is what we create. But it is good to fill the holes, like those river boats and some other stuff.

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Post #: 99
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 8:42:00 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
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Status: offline 		Sheesh, I must look pretty comical reading French off my computer screen, with my tongue sticking out the side of my mouth and my finger pointing at the words.

Good practice, though...

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Post #: 100
About politics... - 10/1/2009 8:49:02 PM   
Terminus


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From: Denmark
Status: offline 		It was always my impression that the main administrative center for French Indochina was Hanoi, with Saigon being secondary to it. Am I correct in this?

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Post #: 101
RE: About politics... - 10/1/2009 8:56:16 PM   
Skyland


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Status: offline 		Yes, you are right.

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Post #: 102
Land OOB - 10/1/2009 9:09:37 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
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From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Here's my attempt at a land forces OOB. It's based almost entirely on the historical OOB, as I've tried to not make the Army of Indochina unrealistically strong. French troops were needed elsewhere.

Anyway:

Armée de Indochine(HQ Hanoi)

Division Tonkin (Hanoi)

  • 1e Brigade (Hanoi)
  • 2e Brigade (Hanoi)
  • 3e Brigade (Hanoi)
  • 4e Regiment d'Artillerie Coloniale (Hanoi)


Division Cochinchine (Saigon)

  • Cap St. Jacques Brigade (Saigon)
  • Cambodge Brigade (Phnom Penh)
  • Cochinchine Brigade (Battambang)
  • 5e Regiment d'Artillerie Coloniale (-) (Saigon)


Annam-Laos Brigade (Hue) (has a groupe of 5e RAC attached).

I/409 RADCA anti-aircraft battalion
Indochine engineer battalion

I've chosen to make the two division HQ's corps HQ's in the game, and have the maneuver units be brigades.

There were four small mechanized detachments, assigned each to a specific infantry regiment, which I've rolled into their corresponding brigade OOBs. Thus, the 2e and 3e Brigades of the Division Tonkin, the Annam Brigade and the Cochinchine Brigade each have a small number of light tanks, armoured cars and motorized support.

Additionally, there are small base forces present at Hanoi, Hue, Bien Hoa, Cam Ranh, Phnom Penh and Saigon.

< Message edited by Terminus -- 10/1/2009 9:17:33 PM >

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Post #: 103
RE: Land OOB - 10/1/2009 9:18:52 PM   
Terminus


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From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I'd like to explore the possibility of maybe creating a few smaller additional units, which might come into play as being raised when the Japs and Thais invade. Perhaps Gendarmerie-type paramilitary forces would be thrown into the fight? Thoughts?

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Post #: 104
RE: Land OOB - 10/1/2009 9:41:51 PM   
chacal83000


Posts: 34
Joined: 4/7/2009
From: French Coast of Somalis
Status: offline 		From what i know during the war of indochine, Gendarmes were sended in numbers (and lost +/- 650 of them) but it seems they were spread all over the country, some even incorporetad in bigger units, jumping even in paradrop actions. But of course the enemy was very different that a Japanese enemy would be, so the strategy would be different too.

It would be possible, but where from those Gendarmes would come from ? If metropolitan France is occuped i don't see the possibility of big units of Gendarmerie being sended to Indochine. Maybe those already present locally ? That woud be few.

Maybe you should rise some locals ? There was some units that was raised during Indochine war, so why not ?

< Message edited by chacal83 -- 10/1/2009 9:45:11 PM >

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Post #: 105
RE: Land OOB - 10/2/2009 1:35:05 AM   
Alikchi2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I'd like to explore the possibility of maybe creating a few smaller additional units, which might come into play as being raised when the Japs and Thais invade. Perhaps Gendarmerie-type paramilitary forces would be thrown into the fight? Thoughts?


I think perhaps if the French hold out long enough, a few poorly trained native companies should spawn in Saigon? I'm not knowledgeable enough about the politics to know if that's plausible.

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Post #: 106
RE: About politics... - 10/2/2009 7:00:05 AM   
Shark7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

It was always my impression that the main administrative center for French Indochina was Hanoi, with Saigon being secondary to it. Am I correct in this?



Also, IIRC the CNI was HQ'ed at Haiphong, while the repair facilities were at Saigon.

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Post #: 107
RE: Land OOB - 10/2/2009 7:02:58 AM   
Shark7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alikchi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I'd like to explore the possibility of maybe creating a few smaller additional units, which might come into play as being raised when the Japs and Thais invade. Perhaps Gendarmerie-type paramilitary forces would be thrown into the fight? Thoughts?


I think perhaps if the French hold out long enough, a few poorly trained native companies should spawn in Saigon? I'm not knowledgeable enough about the politics to know if that's plausible.


The Vietmanese historically hated the French, due to the brutality of the French Colonials. That is what eventually led to the Vietnam War. Initially it was about Vietnam gaining independence from France.

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Post #: 108
RE: Land OOB - 10/2/2009 7:12:43 AM   
Skyland


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I'd like to explore the possibility of maybe creating a few smaller additional units, which might come into play as being raised when the Japs and Thais invade. Perhaps Gendarmerie-type paramilitary forces would be thrown into the fight? Thoughts?


There was some small units of "paramilitary" forces all over the territory for local police called Garde Indigene ou Garde Indochinoise. They were also engaged against Thai and Japan.

And also some "partisans", local villagers armed by the administration in order to defend themselves against chinese pirates in Tonkin.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Skyland -- 10/2/2009 7:27:55 AM >

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 109
RE: French Naval OOB - 10/2/2009 11:53:23 AM   
Likendeeler


Posts: 27
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Maybe you want to include some smaller french ships at Indochina too.
There are qite a few subchasers, patrol boats and surveying vessels.
CH.111 (COMMANDANT BOURDAIS) and CH.112 (COMMANDANT AVALANCHE) for example, two steel-hulled subchasers (128 tons, built 1919-1920, one 75mm) or Gunboat/First class sloop Tahure (644 tons), sunk 30 Apr 1944 (USS Flasher).
There are more.

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Post #: 110
RE: French Naval OOB - 10/2/2009 12:27:46 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I was not familiar with these. Thanks, Likendeeler.

I believe the Tahure is an example of what the French would call an "aviso", no?

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Post #: 111
RE: French Naval OOB - 10/2/2009 12:49:09 PM   
chacal83000


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Status: offline 		Yes, or a Colonial Aviso from what i found.

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Post #: 112
RE: Land OOB - 10/2/2009 1:27:17 PM   
chacal83000


Posts: 34
Joined: 4/7/2009
From: French Coast of Somalis
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alikchi
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus
I'd like to explore the possibility of maybe creating a few smaller additional units, which might come into play as being raised when the Japs and Thais invade. Perhaps Gendarmerie-type paramilitary forces would be thrown into the fight? Thoughts?

I think perhaps if the French hold out long enough, a few poorly trained native companies should spawn in Saigon? I'm not knowledgeable enough about the politics to know if that's plausible.

The Vietmanese historically hated the French, due to the brutality of the French Colonials. That is what eventually led to the Vietnam War. Initially it was about Vietnam gaining independence from France.


Well... they hated French that much that up to 50.000 locals (one thirds of the expeditionary force) fought along the French during the war of Indochine...
The reasons of the war were a bit just more complicated that the "bad colonials" vs. "good commies" !

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 113
RE: Land OOB - 10/2/2009 1:47:55 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Epinal a sister of Tahure in photo. Designed to look like merchant ships and with merchant hull.

2 boiler 2 shafts Parsons Turbines 5000shp 20kt 200t fuel 3000nm at 11kt.

Edit: changed photo of Epinal to Tahure.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Dili -- 10/2/2009 1:51:47 PM >

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Post #: 114
RE: Land OOB - 10/2/2009 2:28:36 PM   
Likendeeler


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Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Yes, an interesting ship. TAHURE was designed to resemble a merchant ship but carried two 5.5inch guns and one 75mm AA.

Another one is FRANCIS-GARNIER, built 1927 and displacing 639 tons, capable of 15 knots and armed with two 3.9inch/40cal guns, one 75mm AA and two 37mm AA. On the 20 of February 1944, Francis Garnier hit a mine near the peninsula of Lagan, carrying freight herself.

Another sloop, MARNE dated from the First World War, displaced 601 tons, carried four 3.9inch (100mm)/40cal guns and (theoretically) made 21 knots. Marne was scuttled in 1945 to prevent a japanese capture.

And if you like Vichy biplanes from Indochina...






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 115
RE: Land OOB - 10/2/2009 2:32:41 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		The excellent Naval History Net has a good list for ship commanders, not up to date probably but it is better than to invent names.

http://www.naval-history.net/xDKWW2-3909-05OtherNavies.htm

INDO-CHINA 1939

Amiral Jean Decoux

Headquarters at Saigon

5th Cruiser Division (Contre Amiral Jules E M A Terraux) - heavy cruiser SUFFREN (comp 1 Jan 30, CV R J M Dillard) en route from Singapore to Saigon, light cruiser LAMOTTE PICQUETT (1 Sep 26, Flag, Terraux, CV M D R Berenger) at Saigon

Sloops - AMIRAL CHARNER (comp 1933, CF F M Faye, at Saigon), RIGAULT DE GENOUILLY (1932, CF J C Plante, CF Frossard from 18 Jan) at Shanghai, SAVORGNAN DE BRAZZA (1932, CF A R D De Badens) at Saigon, TAHURE (1919, CC R C R Mercadier) at Amoy

Yangtze Flotilla Gunboats - BALNY (comp 1920, LV F G P Jaubert) at Chungking, DOUDART DE LA GREE (1909, CC M J A P De Centenier de Fauque) at Hankow, to Shanghai at end of month, FRANCIS GARNIER (1931, CF A M A Robin, SO, Yangtse) at Shanghai

Si Kiang Station Gunboat - ARGUS (comp 1922, CC M G H Ruyneau de Saint-George, SO, Si Kiang area) at Hong Kong

Sloops at Saigon – LA PÉROUSE (comp 1919, CF L G E Frossard) surveying vessel employed as a sloop, MARNE (1917, CC M A M De Rodellec du Porzic)

Gunboats at Saigon - AVALANCHE (1920, ENS S Ouvaroff), COMMANDANT BOURDAIS (comp 1920, LV L A Martin, SO)

Gunboats at Haiphong - MYTHO (comp 1934, LV J P G Mienville), TOURANE (1934, LV L J P S Pinel), VIGILANTE (1922, CC M J L Leparmentier, SO)

Submarines - L'ESPOIR (comp 32, LV H S A Tezenas du Montecel) dep station after refitting in Nov, dep Singapore on 5 Nov, arr Toulon Dec 39

Unfortunately their list for 1940 is not so complete:
http://www.naval-history.net/xDKWW2-4006-16French.htm

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Post #: 116
RE: Land OOB - 10/2/2009 3:48:18 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chacal83


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alikchi
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus
I'd like to explore the possibility of maybe creating a few smaller additional units, which might come into play as being raised when the Japs and Thais invade. Perhaps Gendarmerie-type paramilitary forces would be thrown into the fight? Thoughts?

I think perhaps if the French hold out long enough, a few poorly trained native companies should spawn in Saigon? I'm not knowledgeable enough about the politics to know if that's plausible.

The Vietmanese historically hated the French, due to the brutality of the French Colonials. That is what eventually led to the Vietnam War. Initially it was about Vietnam gaining independence from France.


Well... they hated French that much that up to 50.000 locals (one thirds of the expeditionary force) fought along the French during the war of Indochine...
The reasons of the war were a bit just more complicated that the "bad colonials" vs. "good commies" !



You can stop that line of thought IMMEDIATELY. This thread is about my mod, not politics. The end.

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Post #: 117
Incidental Mod Musing... - 10/3/2009 2:46:31 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I'm getting terrible flash-backs to the stock version of MB, when I had to rip out the entire IJN submarine arm one boat and one class at a time. With AE, it's so much easier, being able to overwrite multiple slots at a time.

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Post #: 118
RE: Incidental Mod Musing... - 10/3/2009 8:57:37 PM   
Dili

 

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Status: offline 		Are you using mass edit via spreadsheet?

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Post #: 119
RE: Incidental Mod Musing... - 10/3/2009 9:06:16 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
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Status: offline 		Nope. All done in the editor.

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Post #: 120
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