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ASW Scoresheet - 11/2/2009 6:17:25 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		This list shows all Jap subs listed as sunk by ASW, plus a few sunk for other reasons., as of May 19, 1942.




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Post #: 241
Crumb Crunching - 11/3/2009 2:44:03 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		5/20/42 and 5/21/42

Miller and I plan to get in three or four turns today, so I want to post regularly so that I don't fall behind.

Crumb Crunching: Miller is picking off small bases and dot hexes in the DEI and Coral Sea as he consolidates his hold in these areas. He's taken Namlea and is landing at Ternate, Ambon, Woodlark Island, and other bases. The big question is whether he intends to initiate additional major offensives in the Pacific. Given the date, he would under ordinary circumstances, but the recent carrier battle at Java may have persuaded him to take a "consolidate and defend" stance.

Allied Intentions: At the moment the Allies don't have any major operations underway in the Pacific. Reinforcing major bases is complete and Operation Bethel Church (the invasion of Luganville) is on hold. I am actively reinforcing smaller bases including several in the Aleutians, Johnston Island (still a likely IJ invasion target) and Bora Bora. Reinforcements are on the way from the West Coast slated for Savai, Ndeni, and several of currently small but big-potential bases around Luganville.

DEI: An IJ deliberate attack at Malang dropped forts to two. This outpost should fall soon. At present, the last uncontested Allied base in the DEI is Lautem.

Burma/India: Quiet here as the Allies await the Jap advance on Lashio. Air and ground reinforcements are building nicely in India/Ceylon.

China: The MLR continues to hold while the IJ nibble in several areas. Miller has been bombing manpower at Chengchow resulting in something like 35,000 fires. I'm not sure what, if any, effect this has on this key base, but there's not really anything I can do about it until the Allies get some decent fighters (my AVG squadrons have done good service but are nearly depleted). Changsha is a rock in the middle of the Allied MLR, but the IJ are advancing in big numbers at the south end (Nanning), which is my weakest link. The IJ should take this base within a week and then these troops will fall back to Liuchow, a critical base because it has a good road leading straight toward my rear and Chungking. I presently have 900 AV behind three forts at Liuchow and have ordered forward a reserve unit (300 AV) presently near Changsha. Things are "tough" in China, but we're also nearing June so I have some hope that things will gradually improve if I can hold the IJ awhile yet.

Subs: I had cleared all merchant traffic in Torpedo Alley with the exception of two AKs that I diverted toward Rockhampton. I thought they were far enough north to "run the blockade," but I-154 got one of them. These two are/were carrying part of a US base force. I had previously split off an AP carrying most of the BF and ordered it to unload at Auckland to reduce the risk of loss of the entire BF. The updated Torpedo Alley scoresheet follows.

Damaged Ships: CV Indomitable, BB Royal Sovereign, and CA Astoria left Perth for Capetown six days ago; the "big two" are getting "temporary flotation device failure" notices. BC Renown is "stuck" at Sydney - can't move her while this is Torpedo Alley. BB Warspite is safely under repair at Los Angeles.




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Post #: 242
RE: Crumb Crunching - 11/3/2009 4:35:04 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Six months in:
How are your supply and fuel build ups in the South Pacific, NZ, and Australia going??
Which bases in these areas are you using as supply and/or fuel depots??
Are you using and AOs and/or AKs to move fuel rather than their intended roles??

FYI - I sent John 3rd over 15 pages of "cut & paste" from JuanG thread on Alternate WTN Scenarios yesterday to give a small AE "fix." He should get it before the weekend. I may do the same from your AAR and Brad's later this week.  

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Post #: 243
Pressure Cooker - 11/3/2009 4:35:41 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		5/22/42 and 5/23/42
 
Pressure Cooker:  Just sighted a stack of 12 units set to join the small IJ army already besieging Nanning, the southern end of the Allied MLR in China.  I *think* Miller is committing a fair bit of his victorious Luzon force here.  The Allies only have 450 AV at Nanning, so this city will soon fall.  I *think* I'll leave the garrison there, though, hoping to disrupt the IJ army a bit as it crosses the river; but the Chinese will soon have to fall back to Liuchow where they have to make a determined stand.  There can be no defeat at Liuchow, becuase if it falls, the entire Allied MLR is in jeapardy.  China has become a pressure cooker.  The stew, which may soon come to a boil, smells of danger.

DEI:  Malang continues to hold, this time against a 1:3 attack.  It doesn't mean much, but it is tying down the IJ 4th Division and a regiment.  Miller has divided the Imperial Guards and is using them to conquer dots and weakly garrisoned bases.  If he had his eyes on, say Darwin or Perth, I bet the IG would be unified and prepping.  I take this as "quiet intel" that Miller probably won't be invading Western Oz.

Subs:  A bit quieter.  I-10 got an AK near Pearl Harbor.  That was the only successful IJ sub attack.  S-38 got an AK near Ambon and Halibut and another sub missed shots in the Solomons.

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Post #: 244
RE: Crumb Crunching - 11/3/2009 4:42:41 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Six months in:
How are your supply and fuel build ups in the South Pacific, NZ, and Australia going??
Which bases in these areas are you using as supply and/or fuel depots??
Are you using and AOs and/or AKs to move fuel rather than their intended roles??


1. Supplies in Oz are in good shape - well over 200k at Melbourne and Sydney and high levels at Brisbane, Adelaide, and Perth. Fuel is low because the recent carrier operations against the DEI sucked Oz dry. Lots of big supply convoys are running from Capetown to Oz. Right now most of the fuel is going to Auckland because that's where my carriers are parked.

2. I've built up Tahiti and it is serving as my main supply/fuel depot behind the front lines. I think it's a 4/4 base now. I'm working on Bora Bora and it will serve a similar roll. Noumea, Suva, and Pago Pago are all building nicely and each has more than 100k supplies. The only on of these that has fuel at the moment, however, is Pago Pago. Christmas Island will eventually serve as an auxilliary fuel/supply dump.

3. AOs are used as replenishment ships, primarily, and gave a major assist in the Java carrier strikes. AKs are only used for supply/equipment transport.

Right now, I am satisfied with supply everywhere except China. Fuel is problematic in Oz, NZ, and SoPac, but I'm working on it.

Thanks for the word about John.

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Post #: 245
You Know its Bad when ASW gets Whacked - 11/3/2009 9:47:47 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		5/24/42 to 5/27/42
 
In between turns this afternoon I went for a long jog in the mountains.  As I plodded down the road a plan to strike began to come together.  More about that in just a moment...

Subs:  You know the sub wars are going bad when your ASW TFs get whacked.  DD Connygham was part of a four-DD TF that tangled with I-10 near Pearl Harbor; she took four torpedoes and...well, you know.  This was the only successful Jap sub attack over this four day stretch.  S-38 topredoed an AK near Ambon and had previously gotten another AK on the 22nd.

China:  A huge stack of troops arrived at Nanning, but further review indicated it isn't nearly as stout as I had feared.  There is an infantry brigade and a regiment, eight artillery units, and 5 engineer units.  That should be enough to take Nanning, but it isn't enough to threaten Liuchow by itself.  As noted previously, Nanning is expendable but Liuchow isn't.

Operation Port Royal:  At the time of my run, I was still under the impression that the sky was about to fall in on the Chinese.   I was mulling over how to best deal with the situation.  The most obvious step is to commit some decent fighters to China.  But I want to do something else - something big that would force Miller to pay attention.

I *think* Miller has decided to throw everything at China since the carrier battle went against him.  IE, I think he feels like he's not going to go much further in the Pacific.  It will be relatively easy for him to parry any Allied operations in the Pacific for many months to come - it is, after all, just May 1942.

So I need to come up with something unexpected that could succeed in a big way.  I have had some vague, formless ruminations about possible action in NoPac sometime in the future.  These thoughts began to coalesce.  I am going to consider invading Paramushiro Jima, Onnekotan Jima, possibly one or two of the Kuriles, and possibly even Shikuka, by September 1.

I fortutiously received SigInt this turn that Shikuka is garrisoned by just 1,446 men.  The port is 4(6) and 1(6).  Toyohara is 3(1) and 4(6).  Paramushiro is 1(1) and 3(4).  Onekotan is 1(1) and 0(4).  Ketoi Jima is 1(1) and 0(2).

I need to open a Jap campaign to see where each of these bases start and what the opening garrisons are.  It *appears* that Onnekotan and Shikuka are lightly garrisoned.  Paramushiro is the big question mark.

The plan would be to dedicate at least an Army division and a Marine division to Paramushiro with tons of supplies and support.  Onnekotan would be handled by perhaps a regiment and Ketoi by a regiment or less.  Shikuka is something I'll continue to consider as the situation develops.

I have three months to mull this over and to begin prepping troops.  The plan would unfold like this:  The Allies will hit Luganville sometime in June with the carriers present.  Following that invasion, the American carriers (reinforced by Wasp) will make for the West Coast to upgrade and prepare for Operation Port Royal.  The British CVs will remain in SoPac and I would try to create as much noise as possible to suggest to Miller that Port Moresby, Gili Gili, or Lunga was my next target. 

I like having a plan to look forward to.

Oz:  B-17s from Darwin finally got frisky, scoring hits on two AKs at Ambon and one at Kendari over the past few days.


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 246
RE: You Know its Bad when ASW gets Whacked - 11/3/2009 9:58:56 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		There isn't alot up there in the North. A mixed brigade on Sakhalin, just CD guns on Paramishiro, pretty much the same gang as in WITP. That area is very vulnerable as Japan.

Japanese players (except Cuttlefish, disregard my comments), should reinforce up there. IMO, a couple of the scads of Nav Gd units you get in spring of '42 should be a deterrent, and disuade an Allied invasion in the summer.

I personally think it's crazy. Miller can bring unrestricted units up there in about a month from wherever. If they are in China, it would be pretty easy to suspend the offensive, get them to a port, and get them up there. You better bring like 4-5 divisions if you want to attempt it. Point is, it's not like he has troops tied up in Australia or India, he is probably looking for something to do.

Then again, go ahead, you can afford a loss, and I would like to see you try.......worked against John III.

One thing, if you hold Sakhalin until summer of '43, game is over. You can pound Japan at will.

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 11/3/2009 9:59:56 PM >

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Post #: 247
RE: You Know its Bad when ASW gets Whacked - 11/3/2009 10:03:02 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks, Q-Ball.  I thought of you during my run - I decided I needed to PM you for your thoughts, but you beat me to the punch.  I recognize the risk of counterattack, but I would try to work this in such a way that the Japs are stymied by winter conditions.

I should also add that Miller has shown absolutely zero interest in NoPac in our two games (one WitP and now this one, though it's still early). I'm slowly extending my hold on the Aluetian Island chain now and haven't found a scintilla of evidence that Miller has any subs or other assets in the area. So it may be ripe for the kind of shock attack that would rattle his cage.

But there are potential problems, as you point out. Well, I have some months to toy with the idea before I get REALLY serious.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 11/3/2009 10:04:44 PM >

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Post #: 248
RE: You Know its Bad when ASW gets Whacked - 11/3/2009 10:23:21 PM   
Smeulders

 

Posts: 1879
Joined: 8/9/2009
Status: offline 		The problem is that it's so close to the HI. Supply lines for him are short and can be guarded from Hokkaido. You on the other hand have your bases far back, Dutch harbour (or maybe Adak) is the closest reasonable port you have and it's further away then Tokyo. As Q-ball says, he's probably got LCU's to spare at the moment. It might be an interesting idea to draw a bit of those reserves away though. You probably don't have to worry too much about an invasion of Australia anymore with the KB so weakened and an amphibious assault on India now seems unlikely as well. Why don't you use some troops freed up that way for a limited ground offense in Burma ? Depending on how much he already has there, it might also relieve some pressure from China.

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Post #: 249
RE: You Know its Bad when ASW gets Whacked - 11/3/2009 10:33:51 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		Fear not, Q-Ball, I will disregard your comments. Except to say I agree with them completely.

As he said, Paramushiro Jima starts the war with only a coast defense unit and there are no troops in the rest of the chain. Shikuka is virtually undefended. It's a pretty scary picture from Japan's point of view.

There are a few things working in Japan's favor, though. The main thing is the presence of some pretty good restricted air units in the Home Islands. This prevents a Japanese player from completely stripping himself of air defense, something we saw at times in the WITP days. And there are troops available to reinforce key northern bases, if the Japanese player is prudent and takes the time to do so. Finally, remember this important difference from WITP; if you run into a successful defense you won't take heavy losses but succeed in taking the bases you are after. You will probably be annihilated instead, given the greater vulnerability of amphibious TFs in AE.

But with audacity and luck and a bit of help from your opponent it could work. It would be a devastating blow if it succeeded.



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Post #: 250
China: Lose One, Win One - 11/4/2009 12:35:37 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		5/28/42 and 5/29/42

At the end of a marathon day of gameplayng, important developments in China.

China: At the Southern end of the Chinese MLR, an IJ shock attack took Nanning. At Sian at the northwestern end, back-to-back deliberate attacks by the Chinese bludgeoned the Japanese "besiegers," inflicting 11,000 casualties while taking 2,000. Despite 21:1 odds on the first attack, the Japanese are not retreating, so it appears this force of four infantry brigades will soon cease to exist.

This is a victory for the Chinese, who can afford to lose Nanning since the next base to the rear, Liuchow, is the key position and will be much stronger. On the other hand, the easy defeat of the Japanese at Sian means that the Allies can divert some of the Chinese units there to help with the defense of Chengchow and Nanyang.

Burma/India: I "lost track" of a transport convoy that was set to unload an African infantry unit at Cox's Bazaar. At the time the transports left Mombassa, Cox's was a safe destination, but no longer. Plenty of Jap Sallys and other bombers sortied and sank an AK, but the CAP took out alot of bombers. Most of the infantry is already ashore and I've diverted the three remaining ships to Chittagong.

Subs: I-165 was attacked by ASW near Sydney.

Operation Port Royal: More about this - and responses to some comments posted by others - later.

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Post #: 251
RE: China: Lose One, Win One - 11/4/2009 1:21:53 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		IIRC from WiTP days, there was an AAR (was it Andy Mac v. PzB?) that had the Allied player successfully conquer those sites that you're suggesting IN ADDITION TO a coup de main on Iwo Jima. IIRC, Iwo preceeded the Kuriles episode and was a very useful anvil against which the IJ thrashed itself for several months. The Kuriles came after the IJ had already expended much of its energy in the Solomons / New Guinea and against Iwo.

I do like the interdigitating web of mutually reinforcing bases that the kuriles provides the Allied player more so than Iwo, but taking and holding Iwo would force evacuation or supply reduction to the entire Southern theatre.

Are you willing to provoke THE FINAL BATTLE? You'll get everything, the kitchen sink and the Ginsu knives thrown at you-at least that's how I would respond as IJ.

Would you consider Iwo and / or underdefended islands in the Marianas instead? What sort of troop reinforcements has he been piling into there?

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Post #: 252
Port Royal - 11/4/2009 2:21:09 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Chickenboy: The WitP you are describing was my game against John III. To answer your question - no Iwo Jima in '42. Impossible to hold and impossible to supply. NoPac, though, has several advantages - close to the Aleutians; remote from main IJ concentrations permits the Allies to get ashore and well-established; winter weather impedes IJ counteroffensive.

Smeulders: I'm pretty familiar with the factors you mention - I invaded Hokkaido/Sikhalin Island/Kuriles in a WitP game I finished earlier this year. It is quite possible to succeed if the Japanese don't have an adequate garrison. In my WitP game the invasion occurred in December '43. Doing this in late '42 would be much more difficult. It's something I'll mull over for awhile.

Q-Ball: One possibility would be to do a potent yet not massive invasion - one that wouldn't be a catastrophe if it failed, but that would realy mess with the IJ player if it succeeds. The Japanese player is (1) going to panic due to proximity to the HI and the threat of strategic bombing, and (2) have to deal with a massive logistical nightmare to reconfigure forces to meet a sudden, major threat from an unexpected vector. Something to think about.

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Post #: 253
RE: Port Royal - 11/4/2009 7:05:50 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		I think "Port Royal" is possible, but should be limited to the Kuriles. As mentioned japan has a lot of forces to defend the mainland but they cant be easily diverted unless they forgo operations elsewhere.

Here you should be able to build a strongpoint to draw japanese naval & airpower to a place of your choice. If you pick the season right you can get a few months with airstrikes hobbled by General Winter.

(Can Home Defense units move by land from Honshu to Hokkaido?)

I would imagine it easier to resupply units in the Aleutians than going arond the Gilberts to Australia.

Do the sums well, after smashing KB, an invasion of the Kuriles could see Miller running from pillar to post and take the pressure off you by late 42


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Post #: 254
RE: Port Royal - 11/4/2009 11:38:35 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Canorebel,

You've spoken about your 'gut' on matters pertaining to this game. You have visceral sense aplenty. I've got to say though that this strikes me as too big a bite too early. I'm unsatisfied that you will have sufficient cover to keep these landings intact in 1942. Just sayin'....

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Post #: 255
China Burning - 11/4/2009 1:53:08 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		5/30/42 and 5/31/42
 
China is Burning - Sian:  The Chinese destroyed the four IJ units besieging Sian (two regiments and two independent brigades).  Two large Chinese units will depart Sian, one for Nanning and one for Chengchow.  Miller has begun strategic bombing of the city - resources and light industry.  I've moved one section of the AVG over here (12 fighters) and some Chinese P-43 Lancers.

China is Burning - Chengchow:  And suddenly there are 25 Japanese units at Chengchow where a day or two previous there were 10.  So I have big problems here.  The Chinese AV is just 1700 with forts four.  I have one big unit in reserve nearby, so given a few days I can bump the AV to 2,000.  But if Chengchow falls, that wrecks my entire northern MLR.  I would have to vacate Nanyang and Loyang also and pull back to Sian.  Miller has been strategic bombing Chengchow for weeks now - manpower, resources, whatever. 

China is Burning - Nanning:  Far to the south I think the fires are dying down a bit.  While the Japanese took Nanning, I don't think they pose a threat to Liuchow with the forces currently at hand. 

China is Burning - Changsha:  This rock in the middle of the Chinese MLR appears safe with 3,200 AV and seven forts.  A reinforcing labor unit just arrived too.

Subs:  Unbelievably (at least to me), another American DD fell victim to an IJ sub north of Pearl.  This time it was I-3, which was under repeated but ineffective attacks by ASW, which torpedoed a DD that promptly sank. 

DEI:  Darwin's B-17s scored another hit on an AK at Ambon.  I believe that's four in the past week or so.

Operation Port Royal:  I took the first big step toward putting pieces in place, swithing the prep target of an Infantry division at San Diego to Paramushiro.  This was significant because the unit was already 42% prepped for Lunga.  I've also ordered it to move to Seattle.  Some support units (artillery, coastal AA) have also been ordered to prep accordingly.

If I had the troops and ships in place right now there is no question in my mind that (a) the operation would catch Miller completely by surprise and (b) throw him into panic mode for awhile.  Alot can change in three months, but I'll continue to monitor things carefully as I make preparations.

Operation Bethel Church:  Two more Marine regiments are on the way from San Diego.  I'm not sure yet I'll wait for them to arrive before proceeding with the invasion of Luganville.  Two CV fighter squadrons are now at 50% after upgrading.  Once those two are ready, I could put to sea at any time.




 


< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 11/4/2009 1:54:59 PM >

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Post #: 256
China Burning Map - 11/4/2009 2:38:11 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		The situation in China at the end of May 1942.




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Trouble in Paradise - 11/4/2009 4:27:55 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		6/1/42 and 6/2/42
 
Chengchow:  The Jap stack at Chengchow consists of three divisions, seven brigades, and seventeen (!) artillery units.  Miller told me via email that I "might" notice a bunch of new Jap Kwangtung  units in China from Manchuria.  He went on to say that he had paid the political points before they departed.  This stack launched a deliberate attack on the 1st.  It came off at 1:1, dropped forts to two, and cost the IJ 5,717 to 7,498.  Gulp.  There was another deliberate attack the following day - this time at 1:2, forts held, 4,363 IJ casualties to 6,782 Chinese.  The Chinese AV is down to just 1300.  However, two big units (200 AV each) are a day or two away.  I am hoping Miller will elect to rest his units for a few days to allow them to recover from attack-induced disruption.  That's my only hope at this point.

If Chengchow Falls:  If this key city falls, the Chinese can fall back to prepared positions at Loyang and Nanyang.  So it probably isn't the end of the world.  But if either of those two fall, then it's back to Sian.

Sian:  Don't know what's going on, but two more Japanese units (a division and a regiment) crossed a river to attack Sian.  This came off at 1:5, didn't touch five forts, and inflicted 3,623 to the IJ and 1,925 to the Chinese.  It would have been worse for the IJ, but two big Chinese units had just departed the hex making for the front.  I will try a deliberate attack tomorrow hoping to destroy the two IJ interlopers. On the 2nd, Miller sent waves of bombers to hit Sian, but found Allied fighters present.  The IJ lost 38 bombers and fighters; the Allies lost 6.  This AVG squadron has experience of 75+ now.

Submarines:  ASW attacks I-8 near Pago Pago; I-3 is attacked by ASW near Pearl.  No successful attacks by IJ subs!

DEI: Malang, Java, continues to hold out.

Operation Bethel Church:  The two tardy carrier fighter squadrons that upgraded aren't regaining airworthiness very rapidly.  Miller has about 30 fighters and 30 bombers based at Luganville now.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 258
Japanese Death Star Artillery - 11/4/2009 7:16:59 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		6/3/42 and 6/4/42
 
Chengchow:  I got my wish - the Japanese didn't attack.  It was, however, a pyrrhic victory.  IJ artillery - all seventeen units - bombarded on consecutive days inflicting 2,400 and 2,100 casualties on the pitiful Chinese.  Two Chinese units essentially evaporated.  Fortunately, a big unit arrived to reinforce the line, so the Chinese AV is holding at about 1750.  But a few more attacks like this and I'll have nothing left.  Then Miller can move his Death Star to the next base, then the next...rinse and repeat.  I don't know of any defense against this tactic.

Sian: Chinese deliberate attack against a disrupted IJ division and regiment came off at 42:1, inflicted 6,085 to 1,511 casualties, and eviced the Japanese units. They are out in no-man's-land and I will try to cut them off and further decimate them.

Burma: Japanese deliberate attack at Lashio came off at 1:2, didn't touch the one fort, and inflicted 903 to the IJ and 371 to the Allies. Unfortunately, I have no reserves and no reinforcements, while the IJ can reinforce relatively easily. So Lashio won't hold long.

Operation Bethel Church: Those stubborn Allied carrier fighter squadrons that upgraded refuse to achieve air-worthiness. Now an SBD-2 squadron has upgraded. So I've decided to go ahead and upgrade two TBD squadrons to Avengers. Given the rate that carrier aircraft are made air-worthy, my flattops should be ready for action in time to participate in the Tet Offensive and the Berlin Airlift.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 11/4/2009 7:20:38 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 259
RE: Japanese Death Star Artillery - 11/4/2009 7:29:57 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

6/3/42 and 6/4/42
 
Chengchow:  I got my wish - the Japanese didn't attack.  It was, however, a pyrrhic victory.  IJ artillery - all seventeen units - bombarded on consecutive days inflicting 2,400 and 2,100 casualties on the pitiful Chinese.  Two Chinese units essentially evaporated.  Fortunately, a big unit arrived to reinforce the line, so the Chinese AV is holding at about 1750.  But a few more attacks like this and I'll have nothing left.  Then Miller can move his Death Star to the next base, then the next...rinse and repeat.  I don't know of any defense against this tactic.



As posted elsewhere he has brought in Kwantung Army artillery... try bringing out the Chinese air force and bombing his stack...I've found guns are vulnerable.

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"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 260
RE: Japanese Death Star Artillery - 11/4/2009 7:35:02 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Can't bomb when bomber pilots have experience in the 40s and every availalbe base is very low on supplies.

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 261
RE: Japanese Death Star Artillery - 11/4/2009 7:36:21 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		How else are your pilots going to get any better if they don't try?

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"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 262
RE: Japanese Death Star Artillery - 11/4/2009 7:37:31 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I thought training was supposed to work in AE???


(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 263
RE: Japanese Death Star Artillery - 11/4/2009 7:38:09 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		On a related note --- did you remember to shut-off repairs to Chinese Industry?

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Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 264
RE: Japanese Death Star Artillery - 11/4/2009 7:39:57 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I would have remembered but supplies are so low that there's no chance of industry repairing.

(But, yes, I did shut off repairs and it will actually matter at a few bases - Changsha and Chungking).

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 265
RE: Japanese Death Star Artillery - 11/4/2009 7:50:54 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I would have remembered but supplies are so low that there's no chance of industry repairing.

(But, yes, I did shut off repairs and it will actually matter at a few bases - Changsha and Chungking).

I hear you about discussing some moderation with your opponent. Makes sense.

In the interim, might this realization of "Atomic Annie" artillery prompt a theatre-wide rethink of your strategy in China? Other players have successfully implemented the 'thousand little cuts' philosophy of moving Chinese units in penny packets throughout the countryside behind the IJ lines and harrying supply. If you can't defend with large stacks of Chinese LCUs in a single hex, might you consider yielding some ground and cutting every conceivable rail and road hex with small numbers of Chinese units? It would be harder for him to mass artillery on you if you elected to not hold most of the land.

Just a thought.

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Post #: 266
RE: Japanese Death Star Artillery - 11/4/2009 8:04:15 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Chickenboy, thanks (as always!) for reading and giving me the benefit of your thoughts.

In part, I have implemented such a strategy.  After Miller's troops took Yenan, I was left with a host of weak, disrupted, out-of-supply units in the middle of nowhere.  I have divided them and used them to interdict Japanese roads.  I think this had a noticeable effect on the small stack of troops he sent to Sian.

I don't want to employ that tactic in lieu of my MLR unless and until I have no choice.  In the MLR region, there are plenty of Japanese units at bases.  As we've seen, Chinese units in open terrain are decimated by Japanese infantry (and artillery too).  So I'd rather keep my Chinese in strongly fortified hexes as long as possible.  If Miller succeeds in pushing me out of my MLR, then I may have no other choice than to resort to guerilla warfare.  But at that point the war in China will be essentially over.  Then Miller will be able to turn his entire China Army towards Russia. 

So, the key for the Allies is to fight, fight, fight to delay, delay, delay in China as long as possible.  Eventually I'll have the wherewithal to turn the tables on my opponent.  I think.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 267
RE: Japanese Death Star Artillery - 11/4/2009 8:47:36 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		That's alot of PPs; artillery buys in AE are ALOT more expensive than in WITP, something like 250 pts per unit. But by now, he would definitely have enough to do it if that's what he wanted to do.

Although I play Allies, I am a JFB at heart, and I think China is a bit nuts in favor of Japan. Maybe the balance is just tone down artillery, because I'm sure Allied artillery will be pounding Japanese troops will work later.

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Post #: 268
RE: Japanese Death Star Artillery - 11/4/2009 8:53:12 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

That's alot of PPs; artillery buys in AE are ALOT more expensive than in WITP, something like 250 pts per unit. But by now, he would definitely have enough to do it if that's what he wanted to do.

Although I play Allies, I am a JFB at heart, and I think China is a bit nuts in favor of Japan. Maybe the balance is just tone down artillery, because I'm sure Allied artillery will be pounding Japanese troops will work later.



Well part of the problem here is the Japanese player has emptied Manchuria of Artillery. So any attempt to compare this scenario to historical China is out the window...

_____________________________

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"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 269
Announcing New AE Cheat Code - 11/5/2009 12:22:49 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		6/5/42 and 6/6/42
 
Jap Artillery Death Star (a/k/a The New AE Cheat Code):  The more I think about this the more troubled I become.  Not at the game itself, because it's new and massive.  That there would be kinks is to be expected and we all know the Developers are conscientous about addressing them.  What really irks me is that my opponent is taking advantage of an obvious flaw in the game.  There is no defense to a Japanese Artillery Death Star in China.

So all you Japanese players pay attention:  There is a handy shortcut to victory.  Just save up you Political Points, buy all your Kwangtung artillery, and send them to China.  Concentrate the guns against the enemy one base at a time and, voila, China will be yours.  There is no defense for the Allies - fortifications don't help; leaders don't help; training and prep don't help; and bombers can't be employed because the Chinese don't have supplies to support bomber squadrons and pilots with 45 experience won't fly.  Each turn you will inflict thousands of casualties and vaporize Chinese units.  Watch them magically go from 150 AV to 0 AV in one day.  And you don't even have to attack!  You barely even spend any supplies! So after a few turns a solid garrison of 2,000 AV behind fortifications will be reduced to a sad gelatinous mass of detritus that you can easily push aside.  Then move on to the next base, rinse, repeat. 

Pardon me for venting, but  .  I'm surprised Miller hasn't said, "Hmmm, this seems cheesy, what do you think?"

Chengchow:  Japanese uber bombardments on the 5th and 6th inflicted 1,590 and 2,470 casualties.

China:  I am moving some Hurricane squadrons from India to China to lend a hand with air defense.  In addition to the artillery, Miller has been employing Strategic Bombing to level my cities.  The AVG has to be withdrawn next month and Hurricanes are my only fighters that have pilots with decent experience.  I do have some U.S. P-40 squadrons at Calcutta, but pilot experience is 45.

Burma:  The Japanese took Lashio. 

Subs:  I-6 put a TT into an xAP near Suva, but she should make it into port.

KB:  A Japanese carrier squadron showed up between Luganville and New Caledonia.  Patrols report at least two carriers.  Don't know what this could be, but Miller has to suspect that my carriers are somewhere in the area.  So he must be committing his full force.  But why?  Could he be invading Koumac or Efate?  I've placed my carriers into five separate CV TFs and they will head north from Auckland.  If Miller is making a move I will almost certainly employ them.  I've also moved some bombers out of Noumea and moved in more fighters.  The bombers are too few and too green to amount to anything, but fighters could exact a toll on any carrier aircraft that come calling. I really don't know what to expect.

Operation Bethel Church:  I believe this will get underway in less than two weeks now.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 11/5/2009 12:23:53 AM >

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