Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iñaki Harrizabalagatar

It has been stated that units will be withdrawn according to historical dates. There are a number of reasons why I don´t like that, imagine for instance the SS units sent to Italy in 1943. The Soviet player knows it is going to happen, so he can sit back until those units are withdrawn to commence an offensive, it detracts from uncertainty in the game.
So, my proposal is, why don´t offer the Axis player an option, so that he can select not withdrawing the units but instead paying a price in victory points?

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What happens if a unit is in the line at the time it is mandatorily withdrawn? Does it leave a gap or do you receive advance notice that it is going to be withdrawn so you can replace it in the line with another unit?

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ORIGINAL: Kesselring

Why not use the same way in WiR? Plus the removal of player production control, I think the developers are simplifying their work by sacrificing the game quality.

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ORIGINAL: Helpless

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What happens if a unit is in the line at the time it is mandatorily withdrawn? Does it leave a gap or do you receive advance notice that it is going to be withdrawn so you can replace it in the line with another unit?

Iirc, there is a three turns notice.

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ORIGINAL: Kesselring

Why not use the same way in WiR? Plus the removal of player production control, I think the developers are simplifying their work by sacrificing the game quality.

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ORIGINAL: Kesselring

I'm not saying WiR is better, instead, I'm saying that there are some good features in WiR that the WitE should follow to make it as good as possible. These features are not unachivable since there have already been provided by other games such as WiR, WitP, EDBtR. If you all don't want these features, what can I say?

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ORIGINAL: jaw

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kesselring

I'm not saying WiR is better, instead, I'm saying that there are some good features in WiR that the WitE should follow to make it as good as possible. These features are not unachivable since there have already been provided by other games such as WiR, WitP, EDBtR. If you all don't want these features, what can I say?

First, I think you're forgetting that there were built in withdrawals in WiR in the form of required commitments of panzer divisions to the Southern and Western fronts that rose with each year of the War. These commitments changed precisely on the first turn of each year regardless of what (if anything) was happening on those fronts. The whole off map process was a crude attempt to simulate events in those theatres that anyone who played the game would have to admit was less than satisfying. I remember one game in which I was closing in on Berlin in the summer of 1944 a good year ahead of the historical timetable only to get a message that the Allies had captured Berlin and I had LOST! So much for any historical value in WiR.

Second, the working assumption of WitE is that the events that occurred historically off the Eastern Front will occur at the same time in the game. The withdrawals are the Germans' response to those events. Yes, you can't send more or less or even different units than were withdrawn historically but you also can't be subjected to unpredictable off map results that ruin hours and hours of play. The point of the game is to fight the WAR IN THE EAST not the Eastern front in detail and the rest of Europe in abstraction. In my opinion the fixed withdrawals are a small price to pay for a game in which players' decisions and not the vagarities of some bit of computer code determine the outcome of the game.

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ORIGINAL: Kesselring


If my memory serves, a historical event such as invasion of Normandy will occur only when the Axis strength is weaker than the Allies' on a certain front, which means the Axis play can reinforce these fronts to avoid these events, instead of waiting them happen at the historical time. In addition, the player can select troops to reinforce these fronts. Which way is better, the WiR way or your way?

Second, if you are playing Axis against computer (I think for most players, they have to play with AI most of the time), probably you can control the situation in the East in the 2nd or 3rd year. In this case, you may have too many troops resting in the East, but still cannot move additional troops to west or Italy to prevent historical events, is that satisfying?

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ORIGINAL: jaw

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ORIGINAL: Kesselring


If my memory serves, a historical event such as invasion of Normandy will occur only when the Axis strength is weaker than the Allies' on a certain front, which means the Axis play can reinforce these fronts to avoid these events, instead of waiting them happen at the historical time. In addition, the player can select troops to reinforce these fronts. Which way is better, the WiR way or your way?

Second, if you are playing Axis against computer (I think for most players, they have to play with AI most of the time), probably you can control the situation in the East in the 2nd or 3rd year. In this case, you may have too many troops resting in the East, but still cannot move additional troops to west or Italy to prevent historical events, is that satisfying?

And if memory serves me the WiR code was designed such that you can delay but not actually prevent an historical event from occurring. Adding more than the historical amount of force to a front will buy you a few turns but when the front does shatter it will take all those extra units with it. In short you couldn't WIN the war on the other fronts, just manipulate the historical timetable a bit. Maybe it's just me but that seems like a lot of aggravation for precious little return.

Obviously you never played the Russian side against the AI in WiR. If as the Russian you begin to beat the crap out of the Axis AI, the AI will WITHDRAW units from the other fronts to reinforce the Eastern front. The other fronts will start to shatter and if the Western Allies reach Berlin before you the game considers that an AXIS victory! This was done so that the Russian player couldn't sit on his hands and let the Allies win the war for him. Essentially WiR was unplayable against an Axis AI because the AI could not perform the delicate balance necessary to hold the other fronts to a reasonably historic timetable.

As for WitE, the game will never end with a message that says the Allies capture Berlin. Aside from the withdrawals and the diversion of production to other theatres, the war off the Eastern front has no effect on the game. You, as the Russian player, must fight your way into the Reich and crush the Ost Heer before the game ends to win. I find that far more satisfying than WiR.

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ORIGINAL: Kesselring

Since you have known the problems in WiR such as the event cannt be completely stopped and the AI cannot reinforce West/Italy front, you should first try to fix these problems while keeping the good features, instead of totally remove these parts. I'm not compare WitE with WiR. My point is: try to use some good features in the existing games to make WitE as good as possible.