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House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/25/2009 12:53:02 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		What House rules are you using?

In addition to providng your rule please explain why you use that particular rule.

------

Przemek and I really only have 2 house rules and they both relate to the border issue.

1. Korean and Kwantung Army Units cannot leave unless PP are paid. I plan on modding the GC to permanently Restrict a number of the Artillery and support units to help prevent the wholesale evacuation of manchuria of these support units since they do not count much towards the garrison limt. Perhaps someday Garrison Requiements can will be fulfilled by Load Cost.

2. Thai Units stay in Thailand.

-----

So what House Rules are you using and why?

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Post #: 1
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/25/2009 2:19:48 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider
Perhaps someday Garrison Requiements can will be fulfilled by Load Cost.


That would be fantastic!


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider
So what House Rules are you using and why?


PPs to move restricted units across borders.
No 4E Bombers attacking naval vessels under 12,000 feet
No submarine invasions.
I'll invoke any rule on myself if I feel the force is not working as intended by the designers/ or if I think something is unfair to the other side case in point ; ships being withdrawn from on map bases or Aden/Abadan before the med opens, not saying it's wrong for everybody but I don't feel right withdrawing ships that way.

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Post #: 2
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/25/2009 3:35:57 PM   
scott64


Posts: 4019
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		No city bombing until 1944
Realistic Burma withdraw
No sub invasion
No unit fragment to cut off retreat
No naval 4E bombing under 10k
PP cost to move Kwantung Army Units
No Japs around the Allied incoming points from off map. 10 Hexes away.





< Message edited by scott1964 -- 10/25/2009 3:37:17 PM >

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Post #: 3
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/25/2009 3:44:58 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: scott1964

No city bombing until 1944
Realistic Burma withdraw
No sub invasion
No unit fragment to cut off retreat


With new ZoC rules and the fact that you are no longer pinned in a hex by the presence of enemy units...this little nugget isn't that necessary. Dispatch a portion of the defender into the fragments hex and punt it.

quote:



No naval 4E bombing under 10k
PP cost to move Kwantung Army Units
No Japs around the Allied incoming points from off map. 10 Hexes away.


How can you tell which hex is the incoming point from off-map?

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to scott64)
Post #: 4
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/25/2009 3:47:32 PM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:



01 - Restricted command units must pay PP's to change to an unrestricted command cross national boundaries.
02 - No ASW air missions prior to 1944
03 - No ASW TF prior to 1944
04 - May not use "supply draw" feature to suck supplies to China
05 - No allied non-Chinese LCU may enter China until 1944 and then only USA ENG and HQ.
06 - No city bombing of any kind prior to 7/43
07 - Surprise on, PDU ON, Historic/non-historic depending of Japanese team decsion.
08 - If Non historic Japanese have NO restrictions, Allies can move any already formed TF, change aircraft orders (but not move them), Allies can do anything in China (less HK)
09 -1 Day turns until end Jan then 2 day turns.
10 - Use of many small task forces in a given small area for the express purpose of “borking” the naval combat engine will be frowned upon.
11 - No more than one 4EB Group per airbase until 1944
12 - No more than 1 Additional div (3 RCT) and 1 Arty Regt (or 3 Bn) of combat troops can be sent to CBI until 1944. No restrictions on non cbt forces (Eng, AA, HQ).
13 - No night mission until 1944
14 - No more than one air unit flying a mine laying air mission per turn.
15 - Realistic factories.



Here are the house rules we are using in our 2x2 game with Nik and Joe playing Japan against jrcar and Tony Luke. Our game started on 1080 (latest and greatest version at time we started) and remains on that version currently. The anti-ASW rules may no longer be necessary, especially after patch 02.

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Post #: 5
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/25/2009 3:53:16 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

quote:



01 - Restricted command units must pay PP's to change to an unrestricted command cross national boundaries.
02 - No ASW air missions prior to 1944
03 - No ASW TF prior to 1944
04 - May not use "supply draw" feature to suck supplies to China
05 - No allied non-Chinese LCU may enter China until 1944 and then only USA ENG and HQ.
06 - No city bombing of any kind prior to 7/43
07 - Surprise on, PDU ON, Historic/non-historic depending of Japanese team decsion.
08 - If Non historic Japanese have NO restrictions, Allies can move any already formed TF, change aircraft orders (but not move them), Allies can do anything in China (less HK)
09 -1 Day turns until end Jan then 2 day turns.
10 - Use of many small task forces in a given small area for the express purpose of “borking” the naval combat engine will be frowned upon.
11 - No more than one 4EB Group per airbase until 1944
12 - No more than 1 Additional div (3 RCT) and 1 Arty Regt (or 3 Bn) of combat troops can be sent to CBI until 1944. No restrictions on non cbt forces (Eng, AA, HQ).
13 - No night mission until 1944
14 - No more than one air unit flying a mine laying air mission per turn.
15 - Realistic factories.



Here are the house rules we are using in our 2x2 game with Nik and Joe playing Japan against jrcar and Tony Luke. Our game started on 1080 (latest and greatest version at time we started) and remains on that version currently. The anti-ASW rules may no longer be necessary, especially after patch 02.



Can you explain #'s 4 and 12?


_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 6
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/25/2009 4:20:37 PM   
scott64


Posts: 4019
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: scott1964

No city bombing until 1944
Realistic Burma withdraw
No sub invasion
No unit fragment to cut off retreat


With new ZoC rules and the fact that you are no longer pinned in a hex by the presence of enemy units...this little nugget isn't that necessary. Dispatch a portion of the defender into the fragments hex and punt it.

quote:



No naval 4E bombing under 10k
PP cost to move Kwantung Army Units
No Japs around the Allied incoming points from off map. 10 Hexes away.


How can you tell which hex is the incoming point from off-map?

I am thinking the hexes where the units are in limbo...Example a task forces will head straight for Perth when they are ready.

_____________________________

Lucky for you, tonight it's just me


Any ship can be a minesweeper..once !! :)

http://suspenseandmystery.blogspot.com/

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 7
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/25/2009 5:12:38 PM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

quote:



01 - Restricted command units must pay PP's to change to an unrestricted command cross national boundaries.
02 - No ASW air missions prior to 1944
03 - No ASW TF prior to 1944
04 - May not use "supply draw" feature to suck supplies to China
05 - No allied non-Chinese LCU may enter China until 1944 and then only USA ENG and HQ.
06 - No city bombing of any kind prior to 7/43
07 - Surprise on, PDU ON, Historic/non-historic depending of Japanese team decsion.
08 - If Non historic Japanese have NO restrictions, Allies can move any already formed TF, change aircraft orders (but not move them), Allies can do anything in China (less HK)
09 -1 Day turns until end Jan then 2 day turns.
10 - Use of many small task forces in a given small area for the express purpose of “borking” the naval combat engine will be frowned upon.
11 - No more than one 4EB Group per airbase until 1944
12 - No more than 1 Additional div (3 RCT) and 1 Arty Regt (or 3 Bn) of combat troops can be sent to CBI until 1944. No restrictions on non cbt forces (Eng, AA, HQ).
13 - No night mission until 1944
14 - No more than one air unit flying a mine laying air mission per turn.
15 - Realistic factories.



Here are the house rules we are using in our 2x2 game with Nik and Joe playing Japan against jrcar and Tony Luke. Our game started on 1080 (latest and greatest version at time we started) and remains on that version currently. The anti-ASW rules may no longer be necessary, especially after patch 02.



Can you explain #'s 4 and 12?



04 - It is possible to use supply draw to suck supplies into China (from Assam through Burma) this rule says players should not try to assist such a process via use of the supply draw feature. We are trying to fix this for patch 02, but as of 1080 it was not fixed.

12 - Historically USA only sent one ground combat unit (regimental equivalent) to CBI. Our Allied team wanted to be able to exceed this limit, so we wrote a rule to cover such excess.




_____________________________

AE Project Lead
New Game Project Lead

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 8
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/25/2009 5:43:14 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

quote:



01 - Restricted command units must pay PP's to change to an unrestricted command cross national boundaries.
02 - No ASW air missions prior to 1944
03 - No ASW TF prior to 1944
04 - May not use "supply draw" feature to suck supplies to China
05 - No allied non-Chinese LCU may enter China until 1944 and then only USA ENG and HQ.
06 - No city bombing of any kind prior to 7/43
07 - Surprise on, PDU ON, Historic/non-historic depending of Japanese team decsion.
08 - If Non historic Japanese have NO restrictions, Allies can move any already formed TF, change aircraft orders (but not move them), Allies can do anything in China (less HK)
09 -1 Day turns until end Jan then 2 day turns.
10 - Use of many small task forces in a given small area for the express purpose of “borking” the naval combat engine will be frowned upon.
11 - No more than one 4EB Group per airbase until 1944
12 - No more than 1 Additional div (3 RCT) and 1 Arty Regt (or 3 Bn) of combat troops can be sent to CBI until 1944. No restrictions on non cbt forces (Eng, AA, HQ).
13 - No night mission until 1944
14 - No more than one air unit flying a mine laying air mission per turn.
15 - Realistic factories.



Here are the house rules we are using in our 2x2 game with Nik and Joe playing Japan against jrcar and Tony Luke. Our game started on 1080 (latest and greatest version at time we started) and remains on that version currently. The anti-ASW rules may no longer be necessary, especially after patch 02.



Can you explain #'s 4 and 12?



04 - It is possible to use supply draw to suck supplies into China (from Assam through Burma) this rule says players should not try to assist such a process via use of the supply draw feature. We are trying to fix this for patch 02, but as of 1080 it was not fixed.

12 - Historically USA only sent one ground combat unit (regimental equivalent) to CBI. Our Allied team wanted to be able to exceed this limit, so we wrote a rule to cover such excess.






So 12 applies to US units ...and not Commonwealth correct?

Are the Japanese restricted by Rule 4 as well...for drawing supply out of Manchuria into China?

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 9
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/25/2009 6:05:05 PM   
scott64


Posts: 4019
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		How does one go about doing no4.

_____________________________

Lucky for you, tonight it's just me


Any ship can be a minesweeper..once !! :)

http://suspenseandmystery.blogspot.com/

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 10
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/25/2009 6:12:58 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		I hadn't thought about restrictions on US ground unit transfers. This makes sense though. I may add this both my PBEMs. The only house rules we have presently in both relate to restricted units crossing national borders.

Why no city bombing until 43/44?



_____________________________


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Post #: 11
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/25/2009 8:42:38 PM   
pad152

 

Posts: 2871
Joined: 4/23/2000
Status: offline 		02 - No ASW air missions prior to 1944
03 - No ASW TF prior to 1944

Huh, these two suprise me, why?



(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 12
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/25/2009 10:09:42 PM   
eMonticello


Posts: 525
Joined: 3/15/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152
02 - No ASW air missions prior to 1944
03 - No ASW TF prior to 1944

Huh, these two surprise me, why?

I can understand 03 since dedicated ASW surface groups didn't really exist in the Atlantic until 1944, but 02 might be problematic if the Japanese players decide to discard the Submarine Naval Doctrine. I think the only reason ASW patrols were not prevalent in the Pacific was the lack of available targets in the convoy routes, since there were plenty of ASW air patrols in the Atlantic in 1942.

http://www.combinedfleet.com/ss.htm

http://paul.rutgers.edu/~mcgrew/wwii/usaf/html/Apr.42.html

_____________________________


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example. -- Pudd'nhead Wilson

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Post #: 13
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/26/2009 9:05:13 AM   
Sonny II

 

Posts: 2878
Joined: 1/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

No sub invasion


With the limited amount of troops that can be loaded on subs is this really a problem anymore?

(in reply to eMonticello)
Post #: 14
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/26/2009 4:50:10 PM   
LeeChard

 

Posts: 1099
Joined: 9/12/2007
From: Michigan
Status: offline 		jwilkerson,I'm Curious about the ASW restrictions in your house rules. Does it apply to single ships or are you trying to prevent formation of multi ship hunter killer TF's?
Is the aircraft restriction based on history or is it for play balance?

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 15
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/26/2009 5:28:49 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ranger5355

jwilkerson,I'm Curious about the ASW restrictions in your house rules. Does it apply to single ships or are you trying to prevent formation of multi ship hunter killer TF's?
Is the aircraft restriction based on history or is it for play balance?


Pre-patch 2 ASW was overly powerful, particularily the air asw component. Joe was able to sink 35+ of my USN subs with it our last game.

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Post #: 16
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/26/2009 6:49:50 PM   
Panther Bait


Posts: 654
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		09 -1 Day turns until end Jan then 2 day turns

I didn't think you could change this during a PBEM game. If this is an AI game, why would you need house rules?

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Post #: 17
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/26/2009 7:11:42 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		Joe's a Project manager and has special powers.

Its not an AI game. Its our game vs. those dasterdly whiskey swigin beer soaked Aussies.

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Post #: 18
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/26/2009 7:25:59 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Its our game vs. those dasterdly whiskey swigin beer soaked Aussies.






Attachment (1)

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Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

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Post #: 19
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/27/2009 2:25:44 PM   
Jonathan Pollard


Posts: 584
Joined: 2/25/2007
From: Federal prison
Status: offline 		A major bone of contention in a multi-player PBEM game that never got off the ground was a proposed house rule prohibiting sailing past Singapore to invade the west coast of Malaya while Singapore was British-controlled.

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http://www.ussliberty.org/index2.html
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/but-sir-its-an-american-ship-never-mind-hit-her-1.5492908

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Post #: 20
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/27/2009 2:54:34 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jonathan Pollard

A major bone of contention in a multi-player PBEM game that never got off the ground was a proposed house rule prohibiting sailing past Singapore to invade the west coast of Malaya while Singapore was British-controlled.



Little known fact - the Japanese can create barges at Georgetown after it is occupied.

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to Jonathan Pollard)
Post #: 21
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/27/2009 2:58:20 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jonathan Pollard

A major bone of contention in a multi-player PBEM game that never got off the ground was a proposed house rule prohibiting sailing past Singapore to invade the west coast of Malaya while Singapore was British-controlled.


The Malacca Straits narrow to 1.5 nm at the Philips Channel, under the guns of the Naval Base. See this map at the appropriate scale.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

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Post #: 22
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/27/2009 3:25:49 PM   
Jonathan Pollard


Posts: 584
Joined: 2/25/2007
From: Federal prison
Status: offline 		Herwin, thanks for the map but it does not show ocean depth levels which leaves open the question as to whether the batteries could have been avoided by hugging the coast of Sumatra.

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http://www.ussliberty.org/index2.html
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/but-sir-its-an-american-ship-never-mind-hit-her-1.5492908

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Post #: 23
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/27/2009 3:54:50 PM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

02 - No ASW air missions prior to 1944
03 - No ASW TF prior to 1944

Huh, these two suprise me, why?



In the 1079/1080 release ASW air missions and TF missions were too powerful, hencec we restricted their use. Actually, this is a long standing problem. I would use both of these house rules in stock games as well. The situation is a bit improved in 1085 and hopefully will be further improved for patch 02.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ranger5355

jwilkerson,I'm Curious about the ASW restrictions in your house rules. Does it apply to single ships or are you trying to prevent formation of multi ship hunter killer TF's?
Is the aircraft restriction based on history or is it for play balance?


The restrictions are based on reduced the ASW capability of air units and surface TFs to a level closer to their historical capability, which has been inflated in the system since day one of WITP.

_____________________________

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New Game Project Lead

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Post #: 24
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/27/2009 4:24:53 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Hey Joe, just curious....why no CITY ATTACKS early in the game? How does this unbalance play, I'm curious?

To prevent Japs from nuking China?

_____________________________


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Post #: 25
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/27/2009 4:33:56 PM   
stldiver


Posts: 724
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: West Palm Beach, USA
Status: offline 		Here is a House rule I believe is also mandatory, I had just tried it previous but appears deadly.

Dear opponents,

I am suggesting following HR: Patrol planes (Catalina, Emily, etc.) can attack only at night. The problem is as follows:

1. The probability of hit is enourmous - exceeding KB Kates!!! It gives about 80% hit rate when torpedo i sreleased.
2. The plane has two torpedoes, but game consider them as one - you have alwas double hit (sometimes dud, but anyway).
3. As patrol, they fly only against non-defended targets provide no escort is available. It means there is no way to defend ships afainst them. The sweep or airfield destruction is useless - they use water for taking off.
4. In IRL, they were never used in this role. They attacked only at night with radar - I remeber just one hit (Midway).
5. The most important - the planes are so effective, that they cause extremely unbalanced game (normal TB are useless compared to them).

One of you plays as Japan (and make serious loss to my shipping), one is enjoying the same from my side (I hit CVL I guess). Thus, as you see, I am in favor of the game - I will loose less in one game and destroy less in the other one. I would like to see your comments.

Best regardsTomik


I obviously believe in this rule, as my PBY's that turn sank two transports,

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 26
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 10/27/2009 4:57:09 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Hey Joe, just curious....why no CITY ATTACKS early in the game? How does this unbalance play, I'm curious?

To prevent Japs from nuking China?


City attacks are so ridiculously easy in WitP (since day one) that it would make a BTR/ED veteran cry tears of frustration.




_____________________________


(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 27
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 12/11/2009 3:11:22 AM   
Knavey

 

Posts: 3052
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Valrico, Florida
Status: offline 		JW,

How are these house rules working out now that we are in Patch 2 and you have a month or so under your belt of game time?

_____________________________

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CVN-71
USN 87-93
"Going slow in the fast direction"

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Post #: 28
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 12/11/2009 3:17:03 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Knavey

JW,

How are these house rules working out now that we are in Patch 2 and you have a month or so under your belt of game time?


Well - YOU might be in patch 2 - but our game is still in 1080 !!!

We are discussing "upgrade" to patch 2 - but probably won't happen for a week or so. I'm a software guy - and we aren't big on USING "upgrades" ... DOING them sure - USING them no !!!

_____________________________

AE Project Lead
New Game Project Lead

(in reply to Knavey)
Post #: 29
RE: House Rules - Why and What for...? - 12/11/2009 3:28:03 AM   
Knavey

 

Posts: 3052
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Valrico, Florida
Status: offline 		LOL! I guess its like the guy at the sausage factory who won't eat the product!

_____________________________

x-Nuc twidget
CVN-71
USN 87-93
"Going slow in the fast direction"

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 30
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