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RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/5/2010 2:26:03 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Abnormalmind
I didn't see this on the list, and thought maybe it would be desirable:
Concept: player 2 initiates the PBEM without being able to perform actions and sends player 1 the initial game start data. Play proceeds normally.

What would constitute the *game start data* ???
Why would player 2 sending player 1 anything *improve* the situation? I don't understand.

(in reply to Abnormalmind)
Post #: 511
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/5/2010 2:32:53 AM   
Abnormalmind


Posts: 200
Joined: 11/24/2009
Status: offline 		Hi Larry,

Well first of all, it gets the game going.
And as the main purpose, the 1st player cannot do his/her turns over and over, then chose which PBEM saved game to send his/her opponent since Player 2 will get notified on the number of reloads. Thus, this concept alleviates the "perfect first turn" syndrome that we sometimes experience.

As an example, lets say we decide to do a pbem. I go first. I could, technically, just do 10 PBEM starts and save them with all different names. Then out of the ten, I can send the best one. The results are obvious. Player 1 gets a "perfect" turn. Whereas in the concept proposal, if player 1 did his turn 10 times, Player 2 would get the "10 reload messages."

< Message edited by Abnormalmind -- 1/5/2010 2:34:34 AM >

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 512
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/5/2010 3:16:34 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Wow.  People actually do that?  Thanks for the explanation....that cleared up my confusion.  I can see how that would be a temptation but what the heck, I play for fun.  I don't *need* to win to have fun.  Witness my reaction to your taking over the entire August Fog map.  "What a great game" is my motto.

(in reply to Abnormalmind)
Post #: 513
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/5/2010 3:51:05 AM   
fogger

 

Posts: 1446
Joined: 9/17/2006
Status: offline 		I am with you Larry.

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Post #: 514
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/5/2010 4:33:08 AM   
ColinWright

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Wow.  People actually do that?  Thanks for the explanation....that cleared up my confusion.  I can see how that would be a temptation but what the heck, I play for fun.  I don't *need* to win to have fun.  Witness my reaction to your taking over the entire August Fog map.  "What a great game" is my motto.



I'm never really able to see how people could derive gratification from 'winning' after cheating. Certainly I'd rather not bumph around with precautions to prevent it. Anyone who is really willing to cheat in the first place will probably be able to figure out how to circumvent the measures in any case -- and then they'll just be able to tell themselves they were clever rather than dishonest.

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Post #: 515
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/5/2010 6:16:38 PM   
Abnormalmind


Posts: 200
Joined: 11/24/2009
Status: offline 		I believe other game titles have shifted methods. Was Combat Mission Beyond Overlord setup so the "other" PBEM player started things rolling? I'm getting a little brain dead, but it was an issue 10+ years ago, so I figure it's still an issue today. I know there were PBEM issues with the Campaign Series games by Talonsoft. I'm not sure if Tiller changed it. Now I'm going to have to go ask on the other boards.

(in reply to ColinWright)
Post #: 516
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/5/2010 7:57:59 PM   
Abnormalmind


Posts: 200
Joined: 11/24/2009
Status: offline 		Yes, the Campaign Series had something. If the first player to move is player 1, player 2 could start the PBEM and send it to player 1.

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Post #: 517
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/5/2010 8:21:04 PM   
ralphtricky


Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright
quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Wow.  People actually do that?  Thanks for the explanation....that cleared up my confusion.  I can see how that would be a temptation but what the heck, I play for fun.  I don't *need* to win to have fun.  Witness my reaction to your taking over the entire August Fog map.  "What a great game" is my motto.



I'm never really able to see how people could derive gratification from 'winning' after cheating. Certainly I'd rather not bumph around with precautions to prevent it. Anyone who is really willing to cheat in the first place will probably be able to figure out how to circumvent the measures in any case -- and then they'll just be able to tell themselves they were clever rather than dishonest.

My philosophy is to try to keep honest people honest. Enough that someone who has made a mistake or had incredible bad luck in PBEM isn't too tempted to just reload and try again. Anything more than that is wasted, unless I do everything on-line on a protected server like WoW, there's no way to keep a dedicated hacker from doing anything they want.

Ralph


_____________________________

Ralph Trickey
TOAW IV Programmer
Blog: http://operationalwarfare.com
---
My comments are my own, and do not represent the views of any other person or entity. Nothing that I say should be construed in any way as a promise of anything.

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Post #: 518
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/5/2010 8:56:41 PM   
Abnormalmind


Posts: 200
Joined: 11/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright
quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Wow.  People actually do that?  Thanks for the explanation....that cleared up my confusion.  I can see how that would be a temptation but what the heck, I play for fun.  I don't *need* to win to have fun.  Witness my reaction to your taking over the entire August Fog map.  "What a great game" is my motto.



I'm never really able to see how people could derive gratification from 'winning' after cheating. Certainly I'd rather not bumph around with precautions to prevent it. Anyone who is really willing to cheat in the first place will probably be able to figure out how to circumvent the measures in any case -- and then they'll just be able to tell themselves they were clever rather than dishonest.

My philosophy is to try to keep honest people honest. Enough that someone who has made a mistake or had incredible bad luck in PBEM isn't too tempted to just reload and try again. Anything more than that is wasted, unless I do everything on-line on a protected server like WoW, there's no way to keep a dedicated hacker from doing anything they want.

Ralph



Although I agree that dedicated hackers make my life a little unpleasant at times, it still important for any player to player game to maintain the perception of fair play. Otherwise, a lot of us old grumpy men will simply wander off, not that I ever do that, but sometimes I forget things, and my wallet, too. TOAW is not likely to draw out the hacker groups that dedicate their lives releasing Trojan infested in-game hacks. As I have no knowledge about the available resources for TOAW_IV, I'm just happy that game development continues.

(in reply to ralphtricky)
Post #: 519
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/5/2010 11:53:17 PM   
ralphtricky


Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Abnormalmind
Although I agree that dedicated hackers make my life a little unpleasant at times, it still important for any player to player game to maintain the perception of fair play. Otherwise, a lot of us old grumpy men will simply wander off, not that I ever do that, but sometimes I forget things, and my wallet, too. TOAW is not likely to draw out the hacker groups that dedicate their lives releasing Trojan infested in-game hacks. As I have no knowledge about the available resources for TOAW_IV, I'm just happy that game development continues.

TOAW IV should be in .Net which means that it will be harder for a hacker group to release a hack that can actually damage the computer. I've folowed the standard practices, but I can't 100% guarantee that it isn't possible to create a scenario that does bad things. I plan to use a standard encryption algorithm so that turns will be harder to hack instead of the current process which uses obscurity. Preventing replaying of turns is a very difficult problem since there isn't really any place where you can store the turn played and other information that can't be sniffed easily by a half-decent hacker (in the old meaning of the word.)

As I said, I can keep honest people honest, but preventing hacking would require a lot of resources to create a server that would know when you load a game, save a game, etc., It might be possible to add in a mode that puts up a tweet every time a marked game is loaded, or something similar, I'll have to think about it, and take a look at the Twitter and Facebook TOS.

Ralph


_____________________________

Ralph Trickey
TOAW IV Programmer
Blog: http://operationalwarfare.com
---
My comments are my own, and do not represent the views of any other person or entity. Nothing that I say should be construed in any way as a promise of anything.

(in reply to Abnormalmind)
Post #: 520
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/6/2010 12:21:18 AM   
Abnormalmind


Posts: 200
Joined: 11/24/2009
Status: offline 		Ralph,

Thanks much for what the team does. It's much appreciated.

Thanks,
-patrick

(in reply to ralphtricky)
Post #: 521
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/6/2010 2:12:31 AM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Any chance that all the buttons(well where it is useful) in the menu are capable of being switched forth(left click) and back(right click)?

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Post #: 522
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/6/2010 2:17:33 AM   
ralphtricky


Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Any chance that all the buttons(well where it is useful) in the menu are capable of being switched forth(left click) and back(right click)?

Which ones aren't?

_____________________________

Ralph Trickey
TOAW IV Programmer
Blog: http://operationalwarfare.com
---
My comments are my own, and do not represent the views of any other person or entity. Nothing that I say should be construed in any way as a promise of anything.

(in reply to BigDuke66)
Post #: 523
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/6/2010 2:18:23 AM   
ralphtricky


Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Abnormalmind

Ralph,

Thanks much for what the team does. It's much appreciated.

Thanks,
-patrick

It's a labor of love for all of us. They and the community are what keep me going.


_____________________________

Ralph Trickey
TOAW IV Programmer
Blog: http://operationalwarfare.com
---
My comments are my own, and do not represent the views of any other person or entity. Nothing that I say should be construed in any way as a promise of anything.

(in reply to Abnormalmind)
Post #: 524
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/6/2010 12:03:30 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Those are:
-Place names
-Current possession
-Current supply
-Objectives


BTW do I have to worry because I got a warning regarding the operating system as I installed on Windows 7.

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Post #: 525
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/6/2010 4:16:30 PM   
Abnormalmind


Posts: 200
Joined: 11/24/2009
Status: offline 		I run the game on Win 7 - 64 bit. I found opart3.exe, right clicked, and set compatibility mode to windows xp sp3. Everything works fine. Not sure about the editor file. Previously, I had some seriously odd issues running the game in Win 7. Hope this helps.

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Post #: 526
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/6/2010 5:29:37 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Well 64 always seem to make problem here or there thats why I run the 32 bit version.

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Post #: 527
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/6/2010 6:38:25 PM   
Abnormalmind


Posts: 200
Joined: 11/24/2009
Status: offline 		I'd like to offer further suggestions about counter-battery missions( 5.2, 8.8, 9.2, 9.3.2, 12.4.5). Given that counter-battery missions (or interdiction fire) requires certain skill sets and additional resources, perhaps a new a unit could be created such as a "CB Specialist" that scenario designers could add to specific artillery formations that allow the unit a varying ability to undertake counter battery missions (or interdiction fire). Radar (or sound) enabled CB specialists would provide a significant bonus to CB. Additionally, CB during night turns should be superior than day turns pre-1950(ish) and dependent upon other factors. Also, air superiority should provide a bonus for CB. I'd also like to suggest that self-propelled artillery be given an edge avoiding CB combat results (meaning, self-propelled artillery is more likely to shoot and scoot if threatened by ranging fire, rather than have to limber up to re-position). I think the original ideas a great, and would add to the game.



< Message edited by Abnormalmind -- 1/6/2010 6:56:39 PM >

(in reply to BigDuke66)
Post #: 528
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/7/2010 1:24:26 PM   
jmlima

 

Posts: 782
Joined: 3/1/2007
Status: offline 		is this actually implemented in the next patch:

1.1 New Supply: Supply radius effect modified to depend upon distance in Motorized Movement Points from nearest source. (This supercedes 5.7)
1.1.1 Hex Supply Value = Force Supply * 110% / (1.375 ^ (Distance in MPs / Supply Radius))
1.1.2 Supply Units still extend range as before. Clarification: The supply unit would effectively reduce the distance to a supply source by one supply radius.
1.1.2.1 Hex Supply Value = Force Supply * 120% / (1.375 ^ ((Distance in MPs – Supply Radius) / Supply Radius)))
1.1.3 Note that, now, major rivers (unless canceled by sufficient major ferry) & major escarpments would block supply. And traffic jams will reduce supply. Supply levels continue to attenuate with distance, possibly all the way to zero.

(it is shown as blue in the doc)

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 529
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/7/2010 2:46:34 PM   
ralphtricky


Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66
Well 64 always seem to make problem here or there thats why I run the 32 bit version.

I'm developing the patch on Win 7 64, so there shoulnd't be any problems this time.


_____________________________

Ralph Trickey
TOAW IV Programmer
Blog: http://operationalwarfare.com
---
My comments are my own, and do not represent the views of any other person or entity. Nothing that I say should be construed in any way as a promise of anything.

(in reply to BigDuke66)
Post #: 530
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/7/2010 3:10:23 PM   
ralphtricky


Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima

is this actually implemented in the next patch:

1.1 New Supply: Supply radius effect modified to depend upon distance in Motorized Movement Points from nearest source. (This supercedes 5.7)
1.1.1 Hex Supply Value = Force Supply * 110% / (1.375 ^ (Distance in MPs / Supply Radius))
1.1.2 Supply Units still extend range as before. Clarification: The supply unit would effectively reduce the distance to a supply source by one supply radius.
1.1.2.1 Hex Supply Value = Force Supply * 120% / (1.375 ^ ((Distance in MPs – Supply Radius) / Supply Radius)))
1.1.3 Note that, now, major rivers (unless canceled by sufficient major ferry) & major escarpments would block supply. And traffic jams will reduce supply. Supply levels continue to attenuate with distance, possibly all the way to zero.

(it is shown as blue in the doc)

Yes, although it's strictly optional. Curtis chose the algorithm to be similar to the older 'step' supply rules. A unit 2 supply radius away from a supply source would have about 50% of that supply source, just like now. Modern algorithms can calculate this easily, and I feel it's clearer than the old supply rules. I like any feature which requires less memorizing.

Ralph


_____________________________

Ralph Trickey
TOAW IV Programmer
Blog: http://operationalwarfare.com
---
My comments are my own, and do not represent the views of any other person or entity. Nothing that I say should be construed in any way as a promise of anything.

(in reply to jmlima)
Post #: 531
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/7/2010 7:49:14 PM   
ColinWright

 

Posts: 2604
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick


quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima

is this actually implemented in the next patch:

1.1 New Supply: Supply radius effect modified to depend upon distance in Motorized Movement Points from nearest source. (This supercedes 5.7)
1.1.1 Hex Supply Value = Force Supply * 110% / (1.375 ^ (Distance in MPs / Supply Radius))
1.1.2 Supply Units still extend range as before. Clarification: The supply unit would effectively reduce the distance to a supply source by one supply radius.
1.1.2.1 Hex Supply Value = Force Supply * 120% / (1.375 ^ ((Distance in MPs – Supply Radius) / Supply Radius)))
1.1.3 Note that, now, major rivers (unless canceled by sufficient major ferry) & major escarpments would block supply. And traffic jams will reduce supply. Supply levels continue to attenuate with distance, possibly all the way to zero.

(it is shown as blue in the doc)

Yes, although it's strictly optional. Curtis chose the algorithm to be similar to the older 'step' supply rules. A unit 2 supply radius away from a supply source would have about 50% of that supply source, just like now. Modern algorithms can calculate this easily, and I feel it's clearer than the old supply rules. I like any feature which requires less memorizing.

Ralph



Where is this doc?

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Post #: 532
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/7/2010 9:18:52 PM   
jmlima

 

Posts: 782
Joined: 3/1/2007
Status: offline 		1st post of this thread.

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Post #: 533
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/7/2010 9:51:56 PM   
ColinWright

 

Posts: 2604
Joined: 10/13/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima

1st post of this thread.


Thanks. I was afraid of that. Now I'll have to download that Word viewer. The things I have to do...

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Post #: 534
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/8/2010 8:54:39 AM   
jmlima

 

Posts: 782
Joined: 3/1/2007
Status: offline 		Drop me your email by PM and I'll send you pdf version.

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Post #: 535
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/8/2010 10:51:17 AM   
ColinWright

 

Posts: 2604
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima

Drop me your email by PM and I'll send you pdf version.


Thanks. Done.


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Post #: 536
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/8/2010 12:45:48 PM   
jmlima

 

Posts: 782
Joined: 3/1/2007
Status: offline 		Nothing received though...

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Post #: 537
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/8/2010 7:12:48 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima

Drop me your email by PM and I'll send you pdf version.


You're able to convert Word to PDF? If so, your services may be required - for King & Country (for King, read Ralph; for Country, read TOAW).

(in reply to jmlima)
Post #: 538
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/8/2010 7:28:41 PM   
ColinWright

 

Posts: 2604
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima

Nothing received though...


First time I sent it to your 'e-mail.' This time I used the actual 'pm' button.

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Post #: 539
RE: Comprehensive Wishlist - 1/8/2010 7:40:00 PM   
Silvanski


Posts: 2506
Joined: 1/23/2005
From: Belgium, residing in TX-USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima

Drop me your email by PM and I'll send you pdf version.


You're able to convert Word to PDF? If so, your services may be required - for King & Country (for King, read Ralph; for Country, read TOAW).

FYI The word program in the free Open Office can also create PDF's

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Post #: 540
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