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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 3:30:56 PM   
Montbrun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zort

For the axis allied losses, are they shown somewhere else or are they all just lumped together?


Losses are lumped together. Here is a screen shot of part of the OOB. While it does not show losses it does show men and weapons in the armed forces by country.




505 Italian afvs? something is awry here...

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 3:48:25 PM   
j campbell


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For the german units, the level seems to be primarily at divisonal. I would think any incorporation of brandenburg units would be considered like a support unit. If i am not mistaken they primarily operated at strengths under company level (were they ever deployed as a full battalion?).

FJ units on the eastern front arrived in an Emergency role to help contain the Soviet winter offensive-first in the Leningrad sectorin Sept. 1941 (I and II FJR1) ( FJR3) then with units in AGS (I, II Bn FJR2.
Other units snet include the I and II falschirm pioneer battallion and II LLStr plus an assortment of small machinegun and artillery units.
in Feb 1942 a small battle group under Miendl was dispatched to Vyazma area east of Smolensk and then North to the leningrad sector. In May , the soviet 11th army with 2nd Shock group attacked which units of this battle group helped to contain (they well might have been the primary defenders i am not positive).

Actually, there was a plan in place to use FJ in the caucus theatre in an airborne drop but it was scrubbed.

personally, i think the Fj units should be incorporated into the game but there could be alimit placed on total number of FJ soldiers for all their units. once those units/men are burned out they are gone ie. their men are near irreplacable.

Elmo, are there alert/emergency units that you can transfer over from a seperate theatre given a certain situation or are the reinforcements just on a timetable?

thanks,
john

< Message edited by j campbell -- 2/19/2010 4:06:38 PM >


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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 4:23:29 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: j campbell

...

Elmo, are there alert/emergency units that you can transfer over from a seperate theatre given a certain situation or are the reinforcements just on a timetable?

thanks,
john


For the Axis you get reinforcements and withdrawals based on historical timetables. The Soviets can build their own units.


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Post #: 123
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 4:53:33 PM   
elmo3

 

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AGN is making good progress against what feels like light resistance compared to AGC and AGS.  Tallinn should fall to the 18th Army (purple) next week.  4th Pz Grp (pink) is pushing close to Pskov and it should also fall next week.  16th Army (purple) is covering the gap between AGN and AGC.




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Post #: 124
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 4:59:11 PM   
elmo3

 

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Someone asked for an example of a battle report so here is what they look like.  Again this is Alpha so please don't over analyze every detail.  It's an example to show what we see now and is subject to change as we move forward.




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Post #: 125
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 5:02:25 PM   
Great_Ajax


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John, the Fallschirmjager divisions are all there but you can't break them up into battalion level fire brigades. It would be just too painful to do. You can break them down into three regiments and use them however you like. If you start going down the path of adding every company and battalion sized unit, you open the floodgates to managing a level of data that becomes a almost umanageable to both the player and the designers. There are no alert or emergency units as they just arrive and withdraw on a timetable.

Trey


quote:

ORIGINAL: j campbell

For the german units, the level seems to be primarily at divisonal. I would think any incorporation of brandenburg units would be considered like a support unit. If i am not mistaken they primarily operated at strengths under company level (were they ever deployed as a full battalion?).

FJ units on the eastern front arrived in an Emergency role to help contain the Soviet winter offensive-first in the Leningrad sectorin Sept. 1941 (I and II FJR1) ( FJR3) then with units in AGS (I, II Bn FJR2.
Other units snet include the I and II falschirm pioneer battallion and II LLStr plus an assortment of small machinegun and artillery units.
in Feb 1942 a small battle group under Miendl was dispatched to Vyazma area east of Smolensk and then North to the leningrad sector. In May , the soviet 11th army with 2nd Shock group attacked which units of this battle group helped to contain (they well might have been the primary defenders i am not positive).

Actually, there was a plan in place to use FJ in the caucus theatre in an airborne drop but it was scrubbed.

personally, i think the Fj units should be incorporated into the game but there could be alimit placed on total number of FJ soldiers for all their units. once those units/men are burned out they are gone ie. their men are near irreplacable.

Elmo, are there alert/emergency units that you can transfer over from a seperate theatre given a certain situation or are the reinforcements just on a timetable?

thanks,
john



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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 5:10:15 PM   
Neal_MLC

 

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I have a couple of questions if you don't mind
what do the round white on black "tank" counters indicate?
What is the maximum lenght of the supply chain: from the source (railhead) to the HQ and from the HQ to the unit?

Ok three questions;
Do the Soviets have rail repair units like the germans or do they depend on the HQ pioneer battalions?


I think it would be easier if MG just published the manual :-)



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Post #: 127
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 5:13:56 PM   
Neal_MLC

 

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I can't count... I have a fourth question

What happens when an HQ unit gets destroyed?

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Post #: 128
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 5:41:07 PM   
Balou


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First of all: thanks for the AAR.
But - and sorry in case I'm in the wrong forum - your AIR LOSSES table after turn 1 mentions 4 Bf 109K4 losses. So far as I know from my books, the initial model of the K-version was produced in the winter of 1943 and released for mass production in march 1944. Where are those 190K coming from in June 41? Did I miss something ?




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Post #: 129
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 5:44:18 PM   
SGHunt


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More, more - on to Leningrad!!! Don't tell me you've got a wife and children to look after, I need my next hit... This game is going to be the cause of a lot of domestics!

This AAR is great - many thanks - it is almost (but not quite) as good as playing it myself. Does anybody else keep wanting to advise Elmo on how best to make the next move? And this despite the fact I know nothing of the game mechanics.

This may just be the game that breaks my PBEM duck!

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 5:50:12 PM   
SGHunt


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...and I know you said that part of the benefit is that we can spot stuff to report back to HQ (and I am really not meaning to be picky): in the Combat report above it shows that there were 32 Russki AFV's in the OOB and yet there were 33 AFV's knocked out? Maybe worth a look?

And yes, I know the mantra: "This is the Alpha, this is the Alpha..."

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 6:11:36 PM   
Great_Ajax


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Its a bug and has been addressed. Be nice to have those Ks in '41 right? Three steps forward and one step back. LOL.

Trey


quote:

ORIGINAL: Balou

First of all: thanks for the AAR.
But - and sorry in case I'm in the wrong forum - your AIR LOSSES table after turn 1 mentions 4 Bf 109K4 losses. So far as I know from my books, the initial model of the K-version was produced in the winter of 1943 and released for mass production in march 1944. Where are those 190K coming from in June 41? Did I miss something ?







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Post #: 132
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 6:35:43 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neal_MLC

I have a couple of questions if you don't mind
what do the round white on black "tank" counters indicate?
What is the maximum lenght of the supply chain: from the source (railhead) to the HQ and from the HQ to the unit?

Ok three questions;
Do the Soviets have rail repair units like the germans or do they depend on the HQ pioneer battalions?

I think it would be easier if MG just published the manual :-)



The white on black tank symbols are where Axis attacks took place this turn. They are a different color for Soviet attacks from the previous turn. Same for air recon or air attacks.

Supply trace is both by hexes and MP's. I "think" it's 10 hexes from railhead to HQ for full supply and 5 hexes from unit to HQ. I forget the MP's offhand. Units can also draw directly from a railhead. The supply rules are more complex than that but those are the rough numbers. Another tester can correct me if I'm remembering wrong.

Soviets get rail repair units too.

I'm sure Matrix will publish the manual, right along with the game.


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Post #: 133
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 6:42:50 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neal_MLC

I can't count... I have a fourth question

What happens when an HQ unit gets destroyed?


I don't believe HQ's are destroyed. They will displace and suffer attrition but I've never seen one destroyed. Joel or someone can correct me if that is wrong.

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Post #: 134
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 6:53:49 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: von Jaeger

...and I know you said that part of the benefit is that we can spot stuff to report back to HQ (and I am really not meaning to be picky): in the Combat report above it shows that there were 32 Russki AFV's in the OOB and yet there were 33 AFV's knocked out? Maybe worth a look?

And yes, I know the mantra: "This is the Alpha, this is the Alpha..."


Glad you like the AAR. There are two explanations for this. The first is that some vehicles that are "lost" are only damaged and can be returned to duty. The different reports count those losses differently. The second is that there is some fog of war built into the reporting which will cause reports to differ. People will need to look at the big picture and not get bogged down making every number add up in this game or, as one tester recently put it when we were discussing the numbers "You guys are gonna pop a blood vessel trying to figure this all out.".

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Post #: 135
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 6:56:22 PM   
Neal_MLC

 

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Thank you very much.. ON TO MOSCOW!!!!!

I saw a signature from an unnamed forum resident that said beta tester for WitE (grasping at any straw I can). Is WitE almost or is in beta???? hmmmmm inquiring minds want to know?


Thanks!!

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 7:27:57 PM   
cantona2


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elmo thanks for this AAR and this game is an ostfrontkampfers dream!

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 7:50:18 PM   
elmo3

 

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Good news, bad news for AGC this week.  The good news is 3rd Pz Grp (light green) managed to create a bridgehead across the Dvina northwest of Vitebsk.  The bad news is 2nd Pz Grp (light blue) was rebuffed at the Dnepr south of Mogilev.  9th Army (dark green) is in position to put pressure on the center of the Soviet line in front of Smolensk next week.  The 4th Army (dark blue) is sweeping the marsh and working it's way east.  If the Soviets have their left flank hanging we may be able to turn it and roll them up in the marsh.  The 2nd Army (medium blue) is trudging east along with some OKH reserve divisions.  With no rail lines completed to the area they are forced to march to the front.  It will be another couple of weeks before they can join the fight.




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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 7:51:27 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neal_MLC

Thank you very much.. ON TO MOSCOW!!!!!

I saw a signature from an unnamed forum resident that said beta tester for WitE (grasping at any straw I can). Is WitE almost or is in beta???? hmmmmm inquiring minds want to know?


Thanks!!


You're welcome. That is up to Joel and company to decide.

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 7:52:12 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2

elmo thanks for this AAR and this game is an ostfrontkampfers dream!


Glad you like it.

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 8:35:30 PM   
ComradeP

 

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quote:

505 Italian afvs? something is awry here...


Perhaps they're in Yugoslavia, or they're counting everything with some armour like the hordes of tankettes.

elmo: how are your air units doing in terms of fatique and operational strength, is the AI still managing them well?

Also: can a unit's TOE change based on unit quality, such as a Luftwaffe Feld Division becoming a veteran unit after being bloodied and not wiped out? I believe I read a discussion about Guards earlier, how Rifle divisions of a certain experience level could become Guards or the like. Do they change TOE automatically or do you have to basically recreate the unit, but as a Guards Rifle instead of regular Rifle division?

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 2/19/2010 8:38:18 PM >

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 9:35:41 PM   
jaw

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

quote:

505 Italian afvs? something is awry here...


Perhaps they're in Yugoslavia, or they're counting everything with some armour like the hordes of tankettes.

elmo: how are your air units doing in terms of fatique and operational strength, is the AI still managing them well?

Also: can a unit's TOE change based on unit quality, such as a Luftwaffe Feld Division becoming a veteran unit after being bloodied and not wiped out? I believe I read a discussion about Guards earlier, how Rifle divisions of a certain experience level could become Guards or the like. Do they change TOE automatically or do you have to basically recreate the unit, but as a Guards Rifle instead of regular Rifle division?


The totals include everything on the map which includes Italians garrisoning Yugoslavia which aren't technically in play.

All units can improve in experience from successful combat or training but only Soviet units can earn Guards status. In addition to having a higher morale level, some Guards units may also have a unique TOE they upgrade to automatically when they become Guards. Even when the TOEs of a Guards unit and a non-guards unit are identical, the Guards unit often has a higher percentage of newer equipment. For example, a Guards Tank Corps in 1944 may have all T-34/85s while a regular Tank Corps may have a mix of T-34/85s and T-34/76s.

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 11:11:50 PM   
ComradeP

 

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quote:

Even when the TOEs of a Guards unit and a non-guards unit are identical, the Guards unit often has a higher percentage of newer equipment. For example, a Guards Tank Corps in 1944 may have all T-34/85s while a regular Tank Corps may have a mix of T-34/85s and T-34/76s.


OK, does the player have the ability to alter those TOE's, like choosing between mechanized infantry or motorized Guards Rifle units, or will every TOE be the same within a unit type (a Guards Tank Corps, for example)?

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 11:18:45 PM   
elmo3

 

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As you can see in the screen shot below we have bagged about 2 dozen Soviet units this turn with elements of 1st Pz Grp (red).  If the pocket holds we'll be able to liquidate them next turn.  Hopefully this will open up the path to Zhitomir and beyond.




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Post #: 144
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 11:22:09 PM   
elmo3

 

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Things look wide open in the far south but I suspect it's more a case of inadequate recon.




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Post #: 145
RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/19/2010 11:35:37 PM   
elmo3

 

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And here are the losses through turn 4:






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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 12:30:45 AM   
USSLockwood

 

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Are the reported losses for the enemy accurate or estimates?

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 1:01:54 AM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: doktor

Are the reported losses for the enemy accurate or estimates?


Yes. Pretty accurate.

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 12:18:57 PM   
j campbell


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Hi Elmo,

Looking through your units I didn't see the SS cavalry brigade anywhere. i noticed a few cavalry brigades in the south porbably Romaninas but didn't see the SS cavalry brigade attached to AGN. Is it attached to one of your Divisions?

cheers,
john

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 2/20/2010 1:06:28 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: j campbell

Hi Elmo,

Looking through your units I didn't see the SS cavalry brigade anywhere. i noticed a few cavalry brigades in the south porbably Romaninas but didn't see the SS cavalry brigade attached to AGN. Is it attached to one of your Divisions?

cheers,
john


German units are all divisions that can be broken down into regiments. There are no German brigades AFAIK.

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