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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/1/2010 2:37:02 PM   
wodin


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Status: offline 		Previous posts in this thread explain why the AI is the way it is at the moment and why there are no units defending cities.

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/1/2010 2:41:18 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Balou

I'd like to see how bad it is from the point of view of RR supply. Can you give us a map with the rail hexes near Moscow already converted and under conversion ? Thanks.


Green are converted, red a not, orange are being converted/repaired.



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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/1/2010 2:44:42 PM   
SGHunt


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Status: offline 		Thanks for that that, Elmo.    3rd Panzer still in good shape to punch but in need of some TLC!   Needs to be in refit by mid October, I guess, else that's a lot of equipment to leave behind!  

Look at the infantry numbers.    Do these squads also get replensihed when in refit?

Not seen any units sitting behind the lines in refit mode to date, am I right?

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/1/2010 2:48:08 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

quote:

That's what I thought but it might be a map anomaly where that hex is still on the Finnish side. The border takes a very slight jog to the east there from looking at the map.


I'd guess it must be a bug. The division advanced through Tolvojärvi, Agläjarvi and Suojärvi, moved past the Sjamosero lake and reached the Svir, so aside from that you're using the division to advance in a different location than its historical advance, I don't see a historical reason why the division should not be able to cross the border.


I checked the manual and there is a German No Move line that is not on the map yet. German units can only cross the line when certain conditions are met.

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/1/2010 2:51:01 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: von Jaeger

Thanks for that that, Elmo.    3rd Panzer still in good shape to punch but in need of some TLC!   Needs to be in refit by mid October, I guess, else that's a lot of equipment to leave behind!  

Look at the infantry numbers.    Do these squads also get replensihed when in refit?

Not seen any units sitting behind the lines in refit mode to date, am I right?


Units can move and attack while in Refit mode. Refit just gives them priority for replacements. But I tend to turn it on for almost every unit in combat so that probably defeats the purpose of it. Squads also get replacements as manpower permits.

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/1/2010 2:58:42 PM   
Balou


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Status: offline 		elmo,
Worse than I thought, nearest green RR hex is 240 miles away (Smolensk). Can units dig in or fortify their position when their supplies run out ?

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/1/2010 3:08:52 PM   
USSLockwood

 

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Status: offline 		Elmo3, do you know if the Soviet Siberian divisions will arrive on schedule historically or as a reaction to the threat to Moscow?

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/1/2010 3:09:18 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Balou

elmo,
Worse than I thought, nearest green RR hex is 240 miles away (Smolensk). Can units dig in or fortify their position when their supplies run out ?


There are a lot of factors that go into building fortifications including previous movement, morale, experience, proximity to cities (for providing labor from the cities), proximity to enemy units, support units (construction/labor/engineer), weather, terrain, etc. I'd be surprised if supply does not figure in there somehow as well. The manual is coming along very nicely but not everything is in there yet so sorry if some answers are vague.

< Message edited by elmo3 -- 3/1/2010 3:10:10 PM >

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/1/2010 3:12:10 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: doktor

Elmo3, do you know if the Soviet Siberian divisions will arrive on schedule historically or as a reaction to the threat to Moscow?


Dunno for sure. One of the OOB guys might be able to answer that definitively, but I don't think they arrive based on any on-map situation.

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/1/2010 3:16:43 PM   
SGHunt


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Status: offline 		The more I see and hear about this little beauty, the more Pavlovian my response (and I don't mean being summarily executed by Stalin).     Even the railway stuff looks great and presents another puzzle to solve.  

Presumably, Elmo, if you were to rest as well as refit (!  ) then evrything happens faster and better?

I don't think I will be able to wait until the summer to get to play this, and may have to launch a pre-emptive strike to get hold of a Beta copy.    

Well done to you all.

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/1/2010 3:48:30 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: von Jaeger  

Presumably, Elmo, if you were to rest as well as refit (!  ) then evrything happens faster and better?

...



MP's don't affect replacements directly, but proximity to a supply source does. So sitting on a railhead increases the likelihood of getting replacements.

As an aside I just noticed this in the manual:

"Units in refit mode are the only units to receive upgraded equipment, unless the pool of older equipment runs out, at which point units without refit on would upgrade if there is newer equipment available."

Another reason to keep your most important troops in refit mode.


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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/1/2010 4:52:44 PM   
ComradeP

 

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Status: offline 		That refitting rule is pretty sweet, as you can theoretically max out a single division with upgraded stuff at a time (personally, I don't like having too many mixed equipment units if there are alternatives), instead of the new equipment flowing to all divisions at once, which was something of an annoyance in TOAW.

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/1/2010 5:00:56 PM   
Ron

 

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Status: offline 		Great AAR elmo3, fantastic job. It looks like the AI is coming along nicely. I'm impressed it pulled back from Kiev - I'm assuming it will be tweaked so as not to be faked out too easily. I think I would be doubly impressed if the AI tried to cutoff your Moscow thrust at the base instead of the tip!

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/1/2010 5:15:05 PM   
Balou


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Status: offline 		elmo,
Thanks for the RR screen shot. Has it been taken after the Soviet turn ? It seems the Soviet do respond by moving in troops from the South-East and there is one stack in Moscow (see attachment, sorry for the bad quality).

Btw, what is "Moscow" ? All three hexes, just one hex ? How much of a large city has to be occupied to say "its ours" ?






Attachment (1)

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/1/2010 5:57:02 PM   
elmo3

 

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Status: offline 		Yes that screen shot was taken from the start of the 14th turn.  There will probably be victory points for each of the three hexes of Moscow but that is yet to be determined.

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/1/2010 7:28:16 PM   
elmo3

 

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Status: offline 		"Mein Fuhrer, wake up, wake up" said Major Biderman softly while gently nudging Hitler out of his fitful sleep.

"What is it Biderman?" Hitler grumbled. 

"You were dreaming Mein Fuhrer.  I heard you asking if Stalin had been captured yet."

"Yes, yes Biderman.  Well has he?"

"Sir?!" Biderman asked somewhat incredulously.

"Our panzers were ready to kick in the doors to the Kremlin yesterday.  Is there no news of Stalin?  Has the coward fled Moscow?"

"Mein Fuhrer our last reports said that elements of 2nd Pz Grp were 40 or 50 miles west of Vyazma, not near Moscow."

"What are talking about fool!?  I just saw the daily situation reports for September 18th before my nap saying that we had entered W. Moscow and were about to storm Red Square."

"Mein Fuhrer it must have been a dream.  Today is only August 21st!"

"What?!" 

Such is the life of an alpha tester.    I just got a new build this afternoon that needs testing to see if it will address the issue of cities being defended properly.  The devs have asked me to roll back to turn 10 before Vyazma fell and go from there.  I hope everyone is happy getting a peek behind the scenes, so to speak, of alpha testing and the fact that 2by3 is willing to show this very early testing publicly.  We're also waiting on a hot fix for an issue with reserves that is due out later today.  So my revised turn 10 probably won't get posted until tomorrow.  Stay tuned for the next installment...


< Message edited by elmo3 -- 3/1/2010 7:30:48 PM >

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/1/2010 8:50:21 PM   
wiking62


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Status: offline 		I for one, am more than happy to wait. It's good that 2by3 is prepared to show this testing in the public domain. I think this is a good move because we can all see how particular problems and bugs are being addressed.

As always, i can't wait for the new installment of your AAR and i hope that the Russians will now offer much stiffer resistance when defending cities.

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/1/2010 10:07:19 PM   
Great_Ajax


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Status: offline 		I didn't build the original 41 scenario but I know that all German units arrive and depart on a concrete schedule. For the Soviets, there are mobilizations in 41-42 that are coded into the game and not the scenario as well as units that the Soviet player can build with Admin points. The last time I played as the Soviets, there were units arriving from the Urals edge of the map in September and I believe them to be the Siberian units (I remember a bunch of Naval Marine Brigades) and these would be set on a concrete schedule.

Trey


quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3


quote:

ORIGINAL: doktor

Elmo3, do you know if the Soviet Siberian divisions will arrive on schedule historically or as a reaction to the threat to Moscow?


Dunno for sure. One of the OOB guys might be able to answer that definitively, but I don't think they arrive based on any on-map situation.



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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/2/2010 2:51:17 AM   
critter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

"Mein Fuhrer, wake up, wake up" said Major Biderman softly while gently nudging Hitler out of his fitful sleep.

"What is it Biderman?" Hitler grumbled. 

"You were dreaming Mein Fuhrer.  I heard you asking if Stalin had been captured yet."

"Yes, yes Biderman.  Well has he?"

"Sir?!" Biderman asked somewhat incredulously.

"Our panzers were ready to kick in the doors to the Kremlin yesterday.  Is there no news of Stalin?  Has the coward fled Moscow?"

"Mein Fuhrer our last reports said that elements of 2nd Pz Grp were 40 or 50 miles west of Vyazma, not near Moscow."

"What are talking about fool!?  I just saw the daily situation reports for September 18th before my nap saying that we had entered W. Moscow and were about to storm Red Square."

"Mein Fuhrer it must have been a dream.  Today is only August 21st!"

"What?!" 

Such is the life of an alpha tester.    I just got a new build this afternoon that needs testing to see if it will address the issue of cities being defended properly.  The devs have asked me to roll back to turn 10 before Vyazma fell and go from there.  I hope everyone is happy getting a peek behind the scenes, so to speak, of alpha testing and the fact that 2by3 is willing to show this very early testing publicly.  We're also waiting on a hot fix for an issue with reserves that is due out later today.  So my revised turn 10 probably won't get posted until tomorrow.  Stay tuned for the next installment...



Later that day.. Biderman recieves his new orders..Seems he will be seeing the East Front up close and personel. Never dissapoint the Fuhrer.

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/2/2010 3:19:21 AM   
freeboy

 

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Status: offline 		thanks for aLLOWING us this glimps... interestign to see things in testing!!!

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/2/2010 5:31:01 AM   
Captain B


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sentinel Six


quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

The Finns have moved about as far as they can go for now (turn 12) so I'll only show this area again if something interesting happens.





Elmo,

Can German units based in Finnish territory attack across the Finnish No Attack Line?



Elmo, do you need to convert the rails to be able to supply the Finnish units at the northern appoaches to Leningrad? Thanks.

Rich B>

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/2/2010 5:59:18 AM   
Captain B


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Status: offline 		Elmo, oh to be so close and be told to retreat and try again...sort of like a Scooby-Doo ending?

You should have pulled a Patton on the developers (Bradley). Have taken Moscow (Trier) with two divisions, do you want me to give it back? and then went on and smashed the heart of the city!

Oh well, looking forward to Take 2.

Rich B>

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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/2/2010 11:18:36 AM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain B

Elmo, do you need to convert the rails to be able to supply the Finnish units at the northern appoaches to Leningrad? Thanks.

Rich B>


It's not necessary as the HQ's are close enough to a railhead already, but it doesn't hurt. You can see the AI has a couple of rail repair units doing conversion in the screen shot. It will probably help to have the railheads closer when blizzards come although they don't impact the Finns as they do the Germans.


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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/2/2010 2:36:16 PM   
elmo3

 

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Status: offline 		OK it's dejavu all over again.  Rewind to the end of the Axis part of turn 10 and install the update and hotfix.  Let the Soviet AI play it's half of turn 10 to see if they are playing smarter.  Here is the Axis part of turn 11.

Nothing to report in Finland.  AGN is following the same plan as last time:  breakout across the Luga River and head for Leningrad.




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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/2/2010 2:43:29 PM   
elmo3

 

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Status: offline 		Things unfolded quite differently on AGC's front this time around.  Last time you may recall we made two solid pockets and took an undefended Vyazma this turn.  We did take a defended (one infantry division) Vyazma but it took a stack of three divisions to do it and that kept us from forming both pockets.  Instead we were only able to form one loose pocket that the Soviets might be able to break out from in their part of the turn.  This was also due in part to them better defending the section of the line northeast of Smolensk that was very weak last time.




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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/2/2010 2:47:51 PM   
elmo3

 

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Status: offline 		AGS again got a foothold on the east bank of the Dnepr as last time around.  What I'm looking for here is to see if the AI will stay and defend Kiev or pull back.  Neither choice is necessarily wrong but a player would probably be inclined to stay and make the Germans bleed to take the city.




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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/2/2010 2:55:51 PM   
elmo3

 

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Status: offline 		Taking a slightly different approach on the Rumanian front.  We'll move 11th Army (purple) further north and attempt to assault across the Yuzhny Bug where it is a minor, not a major, river and then swing southeast from there.




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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/2/2010 3:16:04 PM   
elmo3

 

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Status: offline 		Nuts.  Either I left one hex in Soviet control or the AI opened a supply line to the pocket on it's part of turn 11.  Looks like we'll have to fight them the old fashioned way and bludgeon them.  We don't have time to form another pocket and wait another turn for them to be isolated.




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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/2/2010 3:17:32 PM   
elmo3

 

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Status: offline 		Losses through turn 11:






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RE: Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR - 3/2/2010 3:51:44 PM   
Neal_MLC

 

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