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RE: Some German divisions missing in WIR, provide list?

 
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RE: Some German divisions missing in WIR, provide list? - 3/10/2010 10:21:18 PM   
bclemans

 

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At least in WIR, there are times when excess" armor are available, more like older equipment such as stug IIIb that have yet to be upgraded to Stug IIIg

How about allow the the change of the "type" of armor in armor battalions (whether they are independent, attached or intergral part of a panzer division)?

Interchangable equipment for Pz, Stug, JgPz battalions

If there are 300 extra Stugs available in the pool when most Stug battalion are at full strength, the change can allow understrength Panzer units to become Stug units and use this replacement pool. This will help the Axis player to use resources more efficiently.

Eg if the 211th Panzer Bn has only 15 Panzer II, allow it to accept Stug, put it back to HQ to get re-equipped ith Stugs

Many times the replacement pool for panzers are already hard pressed, there aren't enough panzer II, III, IV...etc.

(in reply to vinnie71)
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RE: Some German divisions missing in WIR, provide list? - 3/11/2010 4:02:24 PM   
ComradeP

 

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After reading bclemans post, I have a question: can equipment upgrade/change type (as in: a Pz IV becoming a later model through conversion)? That would really help with pools of one kind/type of equipment, as they could be converted/upgraded to something else.

(in reply to bclemans)
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RE: Some German divisions missing in WIR, provide list? - 3/11/2010 4:49:46 PM   
Great_Ajax


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Hmmm. Not sure about that one. Pavel, the productions master, could answer it.

Trey

_____________________________

"You want mercy!? I'm chaotic neutral!"

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WitW Scenario/Data Team Lead
WitE 2.0 Scenario Designer

(in reply to ComradeP)
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RE: Some German divisions missing in WIR, provide list? - 3/11/2010 6:09:45 PM   
jaw

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

After reading bclemans post, I have a question: can equipment upgrade/change type (as in: a Pz IV becoming a later model through conversion)? That would really help with pools of one kind/type of equipment, as they could be converted/upgraded to something else.


Aircraft and Ground units (tanks, guns, squads, etc.) have upgrade paths but the physical unit itself does not upgrade. For example, when the Panzer IVg upgrades to the Panzer IVh, Panzer IVgs in the pool are not converted into Panzer IVhs. They are eventually removed from the pool and their "conversion" is built into the Panzer IVh production number. It was necessary to do it this way in order to get as reasonably close to historic production as possible.

(in reply to ComradeP)
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RE: Some German divisions missing in WIR, provide list? - 3/12/2010 1:45:35 PM   
ComradeP

 

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So a number of Panzer IVG's are eventually removed from the pool and added to Panzer IVH production levels to indicate upgrading? Are there formula's for that so the Axis player can prepare for upgrade paths in advance?

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RE: Some German divisions missing in WIR, provide list? - 3/12/2010 9:10:05 PM   
jaw

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

So a number of Panzer IVG's are eventually removed from the pool and added to Panzer IVH production levels to indicate upgrading? Are there formula's for that so the Axis player can prepare for upgrade paths in advance?


If you drill down on the combat unit's elements (such as a Panzer IVg) the screen will tell you what it upgrades to. I assume you will also be able to go into the editor and follow the upgrade path yourself.

I should mention here that the upgrades don't work like they did in WIR. An upgrade doesn't automatically trigger older equipment to swap out. Unless you have a lot of the new type available (which could take weeks) the old type will continue in service for a considerable time until it is either eliminated by attrition or swapped out when the number available become low enough for swapping.

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RE: Some German divisions missing in WIR, provide list? - 3/12/2010 9:55:37 PM   
ComradeP

 

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So the eventual number of conversions/production of the new type does depend on having the older type in the pool? In other words: if you somehow have no or a very limited number of Panzer IVG's in the pool, less Panzer IVH's will be produced than when you have a higher amount of Panzer IVG's in the pool?

(in reply to jaw)
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RE: Some German divisions missing in WIR, provide list? - 3/13/2010 9:24:27 PM   
vinnie71

 

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Maybe its a similar system to WitP. A set production run per a set period would upgrade a unit's TO&E. Old equipment would eventually convert to new and will substitute older equipment in other units...

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RE: Some German divisions missing in WIR, provide list? - 3/14/2010 8:38:40 AM   
Platypus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bclemans

I like the ability to disband poor performing divisions, like the Luftwaffe field divisions as mentioned in another thread.

Is it possible to list all the German divisions (for the Eastern Front) and their availability date at this forum? If I remember correctly, I think the WIR's manual included a table.

The reason I ask is that some of the divisions (for the Eastern Front) were not included in WIR, such as some late war SS divisons and army panzer divisions. I understand that some of these divisions were created at battalion size / less than divisional size. However, since it was mentioned that the Soviet's has the ability to create new formations, it is only fair that the Germans are given all the destinated divisions - regardless whether they are understrength or not.

And whether they are "understrength or not" depends on the progress of the game (from the replacement pool). So if the replacement pool can handle these divisions, they should be allowed to be built up over time.

If it is too much trouble to provide the list at this point, I will be willing to type my list of "no show" late war German divisions for your review. Thanks


Further to previous posts about Fallschirmjäger units on the Eastern Front, here is a source that appears to provide a good summary of units and operations;

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?12918-Fallschirmjger-on-the-Eastern-Front-1941-1945

cheers

(in reply to bclemans)
Post #: 39
RE: Some German divisions missing in WIR, provide list? - 3/14/2010 10:17:51 AM   
Platypus

 

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And on the subject of Brandenburger Units - here is a good source for some of their Operations behind-the-lines in Russia.

These units were small, however, their effectiveness in this type of operation was significantly disproportionate to their size. The question is though, how to model this in the game.

Is there any way to code the elements of such operations by combining the elements of"surprise & audacity" into the game engine so that special forces operations are properly added to the experience?


"In early August 1942, a Brandenburger unit of 62 Baltic and Sudeten Germans led by Freiherr Adrian von Fölkersam penetrated farther into enemy territory than any other German unit.

They had been ordered to seize and secure the vital Maikop oilfields. Disguised as dreaded NKVD men, and driving Soviet trucks, Fölkersam’s unit passed through the Soviet front lines and moved deep into hostile territory.

The Brandenburgers ran into a large group of Red Army deserters fleeing from the front. Fölkersam saw an opportunity to use them to the unit’s advantage. By persuading them to return to the Soviet cause, he was able to join with them and move almost at will through the Russian lines.

Operating under false identity of NKVD Major Truchin based in Stalingrad, Fölkersam explained his role in recovering the deserters to the Soviet commander in charge of Maikop's defenses.

The commander not only believed Fölkersam, but the next day gave him a personal tour of the city's defenses. By August 8, the German spearheads were only 12 miles away.

The Brandenburgers made their move. Using grenades to simulate an artillery attack, they knocked out the military communications center for the city. Fölkersam then went to the Russian defenders and told them that a withdrawal was taking place.

Having seen Fölkersam with their commander and lacking any communications to rebut or confirm his statement, the Soviets began to evacuate Maikop. The German spearhead entered the city without a fight on August 9, 1942.

This is only one example of the hundreds of missions performed by the Brandenburgers during the advance into Russia.

By 1943, the most common mission assignment was long range reconnaissance. During the 1942 advance of Heeresgruppe Süd
Army Group South in Ukraine, the Brandenburgers revived their role from the early days of the campaign, forging ahead of the Panzer columns, seizing bridges, road and rail junctions, and attacking the Soviet command and control structure. Mostly, these missions were performed by units of 20-60 Brandenburgers, dressed as Soviets and driving captured Red Army vehicles.

Between January and April 1943, the Brandenburgers were expanded to the size of a division , and specialized subunits for U-boat crews, air defense, artillery, tank, antitank and combat engineering were created. Men were transferred from the Afrika Korps and Kriegsmarine, and also Muslims from Yugoslavia and volunteers from India."


Source: http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Brandenburgers


cheers

< Message edited by Platypus -- 3/14/2010 10:18:24 AM >

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RE: Some German divisions missing in WIR, provide list? - 3/15/2010 1:27:24 PM   
jaw

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

So the eventual number of conversions/production of the new type does depend on having the older type in the pool? In other words: if you somehow have no or a very limited number of Panzer IVG's in the pool, less Panzer IVH's will be produced than when you have a higher amount of Panzer IVG's in the pool?


No, out of production equipment in the pool is only there to be available to be re-cycled back into combat if casualties become excessive. If not needed, the old equipment will eventually disappear from the pool. You can think of that as a conversion but there is no 1 for 1 relationship between what's eliminated from the pool and new production.

To put it another way, if the Germans historically produced 15,000 Panzer IVhs (just an example, I can't recall the actual number off the top of my head) and 1,000 of these Panzer IVhs were converted Panzer IVgs the production system will produce 15,000 Panzer IVhs and ignore the conversions since in game terms there would be no way to know what the actual number of Panzer IVgs available for conversion would be.

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 41
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