RE: TF Terminating Patrol for Repairs

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RE: TF Terminating Patrol for Repairs - 3/31/2010 2:38:21 AM

mjk428

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

Seems like a potentially good feature but 5 sys is too low to trigger an automatic response. I rarely operate ships over 5 but sometimes it's necessary. 10 would be a better number to justify a TF disregarding orders from above.

It actually is 10. The TF is probably returning due to float damage.

Excellent!

Thanks.

_____________________________

(in reply to Don Bowen)

Post #: 31

RE: TF Terminating Patrol for Repairs - 3/31/2010 3:33:11 AM

Nomad

Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

Seems like a potentially good feature but 5 sys is too low to trigger an automatic response. I rarely operate ships over 5 but sometimes it's necessary. 10 would be a better number to justify a TF disregarding orders from above.

It actually is 10. The TF is probably returning due to float damage.

Well, I just checked and found many patroling TFs with SYS between 5 and 9. And one happily patroling along with SYS damage of 17 and ENG damage of 2!

I get the feeling that the TF or ship commander has a lot to do with it. I have found subs with very aggressive commanders still at sea with 20-30 damage and I have to send them home.

_____________________________

(in reply to pompack)

Post #: 32

RE: TF Terminating Patrol for Repairs - 4/1/2010 10:55:26 AM

Mark Weston

Posts: 188
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Who Cares

Now what this means is simply you added a lot of code to "decide" when TFs should break off and go home, when a TF should go into port, where a TF should go after it breaks off simply because (to use your words), "players complained about having to monitor their patrol TFs". Now frankly if a person doesn't have the ability to do something as simple as clicking the "show ships" icon and then click the "sys" heading at the top to sort the ships by damage (2 total clicks per game turn) I fail to see why you felt the need to bow before these people and put in a lot of code just to please them. And frankly, I have NEVER seen anyone say this was a good thing and am curious as to who "these players" are.

/raises hand.

I think it's a good thing. I think my sub commanders should decide to go home for repairs before their submarines sink, without me having to check up on them every day. I think that's reasonable behaviour.

(in reply to Who Cares)

Post #: 33

RE: TF Terminating Patrol for Repairs - 4/1/2010 7:38:49 PM

Rob Brennan UK

Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Weston

quote:

ORIGINAL: Who Cares

Now what this means is simply you added a lot of code to "decide" when TFs should break off and go home, when a TF should go into port, where a TF should go after it breaks off simply because (to use your words), "players complained about having to monitor their patrol TFs". Now frankly if a person doesn't have the ability to do something as simple as clicking the "show ships" icon and then click the "sys" heading at the top to sort the ships by damage (2 total clicks per game turn) I fail to see why you felt the need to bow before these people and put in a lot of code just to please them. And frankly, I have NEVER seen anyone say this was a good thing and am curious as to who "these players" are.

/raises hand.

I think it's a good thing. I think my sub commanders should decide to go home for repairs before their submarines sink, without me having to check up on them every day. I think that's reasonable behaviour.

+1 .. It's called CHOICE , you can still do things the old way if you prefer whocares , but theres a LOT of micro management in AE thats now much more flexible e.g sub patrol zones (which i love) .. If you want to do it all manually go ahead , but don't deny this option to the rest of us.

_____________________________

sorry for the spelling . English is my main language , I just can't type . and i'm too lazy to edit :)

(in reply to Mark Weston)

Post #: 34

RE: TF Terminating Patrol for Repairs - 4/1/2010 9:08:54 PM

dereck

Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

Seems like a potentially good feature but 5 sys is too low to trigger an automatic response. I rarely operate ships over 5 but sometimes it's necessary. 10 would be a better number to justify a TF disregarding orders from above.

It actually is 10. The TF is probably returning due to float damage.

That is plain FALSE. I consistently have had task forces terminate patrols with LESS THAN 5 SYS damage (some even with only 2 AND NO FLOAT DAMAGE or major damage - just regular SYS damage). It's ridiculous enough that a ship can be at sea one day and end up with 1-2 SYS damage and then have this happening.

< Message edited by dereck -- 4/1/2010 9:10:49 PM >

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to Don Bowen)

Post #: 35

RE: TF Terminating Patrol for Repairs - 4/1/2010 11:04:34 PM

Don Bowen

Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dereck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

Seems like a potentially good feature but 5 sys is too low to trigger an automatic response. I rarely operate ships over 5 but sometimes it's necessary. 10 would be a better number to justify a TF disregarding orders from above.

It actually is 10. The TF is probably returning due to float damage.

That is plain FALSE. I consistently have had task forces terminate patrols with LESS THAN 5 SYS damage (some even with only 2 AND NO FLOAT DAMAGE or major damage - just regular SYS damage). It's ridiculous enough that a ship can be at sea one day and end up with 1-2 SYS damage and then have this happening.

I believe that you are completely incorrect. I have looked at the code and I can verify what it says. Perhaps you are misunderstanding or misrepresenting the situation.

If you think you have a different condition, please submit a save.

(in reply to dereck)

Post #: 36

RE: TF Terminating Patrol for Repairs - 4/2/2010 1:16:50 AM

Mynok

Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline

Long time troll Don. Thanks for being kind but this one isn't worth your time.

_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

(in reply to Don Bowen)

Post #: 37

RE: TF Terminating Patrol for Repairs - 4/2/2010 7:46:51 AM

castor troy

Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dereck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

Seems like a potentially good feature but 5 sys is too low to trigger an automatic response. I rarely operate ships over 5 but sometimes it's necessary. 10 would be a better number to justify a TF disregarding orders from above.

It actually is 10. The TF is probably returning due to float damage.

That is plain FALSE. I consistently have had task forces terminate patrols with LESS THAN 5 SYS damage (some even with only 2 AND NO FLOAT DAMAGE or major damage - just regular SYS damage). It's ridiculous enough that a ship can be at sea one day and end up with 1-2 SYS damage and then have this happening.

hmm, have never seen this so far.

Are your TFs turning back to homeport due to 1 or 2 sys damage or are you referring to "sub TF132 TERMINATES patrol due to damage"? This message shows up in the op report and doesn�t mean your sub has been out somewhere in the ocean but it was at it�s homeport for replenishment and due to damage (can even be very low sys damage) terminates it�s patrol and disbands into port.

_____________________________

(in reply to dereck)

Post #: 38

RE: TF Terminating Patrol for Repairs - 4/2/2010 7:47:47 AM

castor troy

Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok

Long time troll Don. Thanks for being kind but this one isn't worth your time.

Mynok, could you please stop the name calling? No matter if you agree with the op or not, there�s no reason to start the name calling again. As far as I can see, dereck hasn�t done it, so no reason for you to do it.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 4/2/2010 7:48:11 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Mynok)

Post #: 39

RE: TF Terminating Patrol for Repairs - 4/2/2010 2:17:04 PM

Don Bowen

Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline

There are two separate damage checks for Sub Patrol TFs. Basically, a sub on patrol will stay out until it has significant damage levels while a sub that is at it's home port will not go out again if it has more than minor damage.

1. A TF on patrol will terminate patrol and return to port when any damage category reaches 25.

2. A TF that has returned to port for fuel will terminate patrol if system damage is 10 or there is engine or float damage. These TFs will disband for repairs.

If a player sees a TF disband and then sees damage levels less than 10, it may be that some considerable amount of sys damage was repaired after disbanding. This would especially be true for a TF that disbanded in the first phase of a turn, and into a major port.

Again, if someone has a different event - post a "before" save in the Tech Support forum.

(in reply to castor troy)

Post #: 40

RE: TF Terminating Patrol for Repairs - 4/2/2010 10:10:56 PM

Klahn

Posts: 184
Joined: 5/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dereck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

Seems like a potentially good feature but 5 sys is too low to trigger an automatic response. I rarely operate ships over 5 but sometimes it's necessary. 10 would be a better number to justify a TF disregarding orders from above.

It actually is 10. The TF is probably returning due to float damage.

That is plain FALSE. I consistently have had task forces terminate patrols with LESS THAN 5 SYS damage (some even with only 2 AND NO FLOAT DAMAGE or major damage - just regular SYS damage). It's ridiculous enough that a ship can be at sea one day and end up with 1-2 SYS damage and then have this happening.

This could be part of a different issue. Check to make sure that you DO NOT set your submarines to "remain on station." I have found that if they react to launch an attack, they are necessarily breaking their remain on station orders. As the orders are no longer applicable, they go home. If they move to avoid confrontation, it will also send them home. You must use patrol zones, and ONLY patrol zones for sub TFs. This is what I've found anyway...

(in reply to dereck)

Post #: 41

RE: TF Terminating Patrol for Repairs - 4/3/2010 1:25:32 AM

Andrew Brown

Posts: 5007
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: Hex 82,170
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Weston
/raises hand.

I think it's a good thing. I think my sub commanders should decide to go home for repairs before their submarines sink, without me having to check up on them every day. I think that's reasonable behaviour.

I like it too.

Andrew

(in reply to Mark Weston)

Post #: 42

RE: TF Terminating Patrol for Repairs - 4/4/2010 10:16:20 PM

dereck

Posts: 2800
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Romulus, MI
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryvan

quote:

ORIGINAL: dereck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

Seems like a potentially good feature but 5 sys is too low to trigger an automatic response. I rarely operate ships over 5 but sometimes it's necessary. 10 would be a better number to justify a TF disregarding orders from above.

It actually is 10. The TF is probably returning due to float damage.

That is plain FALSE. I consistently have had task forces terminate patrols with LESS THAN 5 SYS damage (some even with only 2 AND NO FLOAT DAMAGE or major damage - just regular SYS damage). It's ridiculous enough that a ship can be at sea one day and end up with 1-2 SYS damage and then have this happening.

This could be part of a different issue. Check to make sure that you DO NOT set your submarines to "remain on station." I have found that if they react to launch an attack, they are necessarily breaking their remain on station orders. As the orders are no longer applicable, they go home. If they move to avoid confrontation, it will also send them home. You must use patrol zones, and ONLY patrol zones for sub TFs. This is what I've found anyway...

At NO point did I ever say these were submarine TF. They are NOT. They are regular surface fleet task forces.

_____________________________

PO2 US Navy (1980-1986);
USS Midway CV-41 (1981-1984)
Whidbey Island, WA (1984-1986)
Naval Reserve (1986-1992)

(in reply to Klahn)

Post #: 43

RE: TF Terminating Patrol for Repairs - 4/4/2010 10:37:11 PM

Nomad

Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dereck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryvan

quote:

ORIGINAL: dereck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

Seems like a potentially good feature but 5 sys is too low to trigger an automatic response. I rarely operate ships over 5 but sometimes it's necessary. 10 would be a better number to justify a TF disregarding orders from above.

It actually is 10. The TF is probably returning due to float damage.

That is plain FALSE. I consistently have had task forces terminate patrols with LESS THAN 5 SYS damage (some even with only 2 AND NO FLOAT DAMAGE or major damage - just regular SYS damage). It's ridiculous enough that a ship can be at sea one day and end up with 1-2 SYS damage and then have this happening.

This could be part of a different issue. Check to make sure that you DO NOT set your submarines to "remain on station." I have found that if they react to launch an attack, they are necessarily breaking their remain on station orders. As the orders are no longer applicable, they go home. If they move to avoid confrontation, it will also send them home. You must use patrol zones, and ONLY patrol zones for sub TFs. This is what I've found anyway...

At NO point did I ever say these were submarine TF. They are NOT. They are regular surface fleet task forces.

Then make sure that your non submarine TFs are not set for remain on station?

_____________________________

(in reply to dereck)

Post #: 44

RE: TF Terminating Patrol for Repairs - 4/4/2010 11:59:16 PM

Klahn

Posts: 184
Joined: 5/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dereck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryvan

quote:

ORIGINAL: dereck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

Seems like a potentially good feature but 5 sys is too low to trigger an automatic response. I rarely operate ships over 5 but sometimes it's necessary. 10 would be a better number to justify a TF disregarding orders from above.

It actually is 10. The TF is probably returning due to float damage.

That is plain FALSE. I consistently have had task forces terminate patrols with LESS THAN 5 SYS damage (some even with only 2 AND NO FLOAT DAMAGE or major damage - just regular SYS damage). It's ridiculous enough that a ship can be at sea one day and end up with 1-2 SYS damage and then have this happening.

This could be part of a different issue. Check to make sure that you DO NOT set your submarines to "remain on station." I have found that if they react to launch an attack, they are necessarily breaking their remain on station orders. As the orders are no longer applicable, they go home. If they move to avoid confrontation, it will also send them home. You must use patrol zones, and ONLY patrol zones for sub TFs. This is what I've found anyway...

At NO point did I ever say these were submarine TF. They are NOT. They are regular surface fleet task forces.

Then replace the word submarine in everything I said with the words "patrolling ship(s)." Are you really that dense?

Sheesh... you try to help some people...

(in reply to dereck)

Post #: 45