Slitherine

quote:

No but a smart Japanese player should invade Celyon as soon as Singapore falls.

quote:

Do they not come into the game if you have taken the port?

quote:

ORIGINAL: zace

Can someone explain in more detail the sinking of the CVs?

Do they not come into the game if you have taken the port?  I am confused on this point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

The Allies are incredibly weak in AE. Much more so than in WITP. From what I see careful Japanese planning can take out Celyon and Darwin by May 1942. My two cents anyways.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

The Allies are incredibly weak in AE. Much more so than in WITP. From what I see careful Japanese planning can take out Celyon and Darwin by May 1942. My two cents anyways.

I agree. This is probably mostly due to PP's being too restricted for the Allies in AE (meaning either PP's per day too low OR too many units restricted to North America needing PP's to be bought out).

The key with Ceylon is a bit of a guessing game - how much the IJ brings versus how much the Allies put there. During the early phases, IJ can bring enough no matter how much the Allies put there, but how much do they bring? And if they come too late, and the Allies have put enough there, the equation changes. At that point taking Ceylon is either impossible or will cost IJ too dearly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

The Allies are incredibly weak in AE. Much more so than in WITP. From what I see careful Japanese planning can take out Celyon and Darwin by May 1942. My two cents anyways.

I agree. This is probably mostly due to PP's being too restricted for the Allies in AE (meaning either PP's per day too low OR too many units restricted to North America needing PP's to be bought out).

The key with Ceylon is a bit of a guessing game - how much the IJ brings versus how much the Allies put there. During the early phases, IJ can bring enough no matter how much the Allies put there, but how much do they bring? And if they come too late, and the Allies have put enough there, the equation changes. At that point taking Ceylon is either impossible or will cost IJ too dearly.

Agreed. Timing is important. What the Japanese can accomplish in India in March-April 1943 becomes almost impossible by June.

However, PPs are a big issue. The Allied player has to pay PPs to load any Indian units but a few onto ships to move them to Ceylon, and the Allied just do not have the PPs because they are desparate to get West Coast units to SoPac and Oz.

Lost carriers or not, I move all but a skeleton force out of Ceylon and leave it to the Japanese if they show signs of moving on it early. It is a bitch to lose but cannot be held without a commitment that will rob other theaters. Come June 42, if I see the Japanese player is going elsewhere, I move back into Ceylon. I would rather lose territory over divisions early in the game. This applies to any point where I don't think I can hold. Darwin, PM, Noumea, Sulva, Aukland, Ceylon. Truth is until 6/42 or so. A good Japanese player can take any of these that he wants.
No matter what an Allied player does.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dasboot

I think the when + how is the whole key here. As ally, I feel one must make a plan - where I will run, where I will fight- and try to execute it. If one even begins accepting the 'I can't defend here if he wants it' mantra --then nothing is defensible. Maybe tkiilerich will hand my head to me and I'll feel differently (I'll fess up, but I haven't got the time for AAR - I'm only here waiting for a turn) For me the mantra is 'bring it, B***H!! I'm HERE for a fight!!'

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

However, PPs are a big issue. The Allied player has to pay PPs to load any Indian units but a few onto ships to move them to Ceylon, and the Allied just do not have the PPs because they are desparate to get West Coast units to SoPac and Oz.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dasboot
If one even begins accepting the 'I can't defend here if he wants it' mantra --then nothing is defensible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: dasboot
If one even begins accepting the 'I can't defend here if he wants it' mantra --then nothing is defensible.

Your attitude is a noble one, but for the first 150 days or so, the allies have been hard coded to fail in AE. It might be laudable to think your troops can stand and fight, but the fact is they simply can’t due to game mechanics.

Experience and morale are the issues that cause the allies to fold just about every time. Until you get experience above 50 (60+ is better), your troops aren’t going to be able to throw much firepower around during battles. It’s one of the hallmarks of Gary Grigsby’s games, for some reason he codes it so 50+ units do well, less than 50 and they completely suck.

The problem with morale is units will simply up and surrender right in the middle of combat resolution even if they vastly outnumber their opponents and are slated to win the battle. It’s a die roll, fail and they surrender no matter what, nothing you can do about it except not fight with very low morale. And in the first month, the little battalions the allies have all over the place surrender in droves due to morale in the 20s and 30s.

You need to get your preparation points up to 100 before you can start training up unit experience, and it usually takes a good month or more after they hit the 100 mark before they finally get up above 50 experience if they are resting at a rear area base. That’s why I say it’s the first 150 days where Japan can do whatever he wants, because the allied units are not dependable enough to stand up to Japan in a fight.

Sure you might get lucky and none of your units will surrender in a given battle, but that is a rare thing to see when using the crappy units you see at game start. You should stuff as many units as possible in non-malarial bases and put them on rest. That at least allows their morale to recover at a decent pace. But there is nothing you can do but wait for the prep points to build up before you can start training your unit’s experience up.

Everything the allied player does in the first 6 months in game should be geared towards making his land army dependable in a fight. Sending units into battle before they are ready is a total wasted effort, the high experienced high morale Japanese units will steam roll them.

Jim

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

I'm reading this you know... And if you do try it I'll know where the big boys are and so can go where they aren't.

Bigger boys stole my sig

(in reply to sprior)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The Allies can build up Ceylon pretty quickly, so Ceylon can be a tough battle.

More importantly (and as Q-Ball alluded to), the use of the KB in Ceylon tells the Allied player that he can move with impunity in the Aleutians, CenPac, SoPac, and part of SWPac for weeks without fear of carrier raids.  This can permit the Allies to expedite moves of supply, fuel and reinforcement transports by weeks.  This, in turn, may mean the Japanese player loses (or makes much more costly) future moves on key bases.  For instance, the Allied player might be able to much more strongly garrison Noumea, Suva, and Pago Pago while the KB is in the Indian Ocean.

The Japanese player might get lucky and clobber a bunch of Allied ships hanging around Ceylon, but the cost is going to be signficicant - and if the Japanese player doesn't get lucky, he's conceded a strategic advantage that his opponent will truly savor.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

I'm reading this you know... And if you do try it I'll know where the big boys are and so can go where they aren't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'm speaking more of early '42 (January to June), when the security of the sea lanes is of paramount importance as the Allies are so pressed to reinforce SWPac, SoPac, and CenPac.  By early '43 the situation has stabalized and the forces are at or near parity.  By then the Allies are usually moving forward, or about to move forward, and the LOC ought to be more secure.  But even then knowledge of the whereabouts of the KB is of tremendous value to an Allied player who is always looking for a good opportunity to pounce at low risk.