Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 2/13/2010 2:54:26 PM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline 		Well if it can beat a playtester it most surely will kick my &ss for sure, and it will probably kick 90% of the rest of us as well.

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 31
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 2/14/2010 12:24:11 AM   
Captain B


Posts: 386
Joined: 8/30/2009
From: Knoxville, Tennessee
Status: offline 		Hopefully we will soon all be able to test out the AI! If it is half as good as what ya'll are saying it is, then we have a winner!

_____________________________

There is no problem too big that can't be solved with the proper use of high explosives

WITE Scenario Tester
WITW Beta Tester

(in reply to Josh)
Post #: 32
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 2/14/2010 12:47:58 AM   
Neal_MLC

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline 		Great, just what I need, another game that can kick my a$$... When can we buy it?

_____________________________

no matter where you go, there you are

(in reply to Captain B)
Post #: 33
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 2/20/2010 3:44:02 PM   
sven6345789

 

Posts: 1050
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Sandviken, Sweden
Status: offline 		can you switch sides midgame like in WITP?

If yes, since the AI is generally better on defense, you can still switch sides when the time has come for the soviet offense (sometime summer 1943).

_____________________________

Bougainville, November 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9. It rained today.

Letter from a U.S. Marine,November 1943

(in reply to Neal_MLC)
Post #: 34
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 2/20/2010 4:26:42 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

can you switch sides midgame like in WITP?


yes.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to sven6345789)
Post #: 35
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 2/21/2010 8:07:36 AM   
critter


Posts: 139
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:

can you switch sides midgame like in WITP?


yes.


How does that work victory wise? It seems strange to lose the game as the German only to win as the Russian..?

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 36
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 2/21/2010 4:35:46 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		The side that wins....  wins :)

I like it in eastern front games (WIR) - play as German until it is obvious you cannot win (assuming you dont - house rules needed sometimes to avoid exploited AI), then switch, and see if you can win as Russian. ;) . The AI generally completely juggles everything so that within a turn or two, you have little useful tactical intel, and strategically you probably dont know much more than the Allies did in RL :).   


_____________________________

I have a cunning plan, My Lord

(in reply to critter)
Post #: 37
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 2/21/2010 8:07:45 PM   
pompack


Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: critter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:

can you switch sides midgame like in WITP?


yes.


How does that work victory wise? It seems strange to lose the game as the German only to win as the Russian..?



More like "as good as" win the game as the Germans then switch sides and win again as the Russians

(in reply to critter)
Post #: 38
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/2/2010 5:20:23 PM   
HHI

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		I think the A/I will be as good as it can be, which is very poor. I just hope that it is not loaded with cheats, such as WitP/AE to offset the complete failure of the A/I. If we have a "historical" setting, then it should be historical.

May I suggest, however, that it would not be terribly difficult to have a satisfying game experience with HTH against yourself. So much is known about this campaign that, for example, if you are actually playing the Germans, you require that the Red Army implement the "Stalin Directive." You, as the Red Army, would implement a strategy of suicidal counterattack, leading to formation of the gigantic pockets that were actually formed. If you do not, an NKVD officer will show up at your door and shoot you. After the initial debacle, the Red Army would implement a more rational defense. Granted, you are playing with perfect intelligence, but it beats playing against a bungling A/I.


_____________________________

HHi

(in reply to pompack)
Post #: 39
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/2/2010 6:58:03 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		At the normal level their are minimal cheats. The only cheating going on at that level is some movement cheats, but we are trying to be careful to make them small and reasonable. This is because the computer is not so smart at which units to move first in order to build a line, so it needs an ability to cheat move a little. Only at the harder play levels do other advantages kick in for the AI.

(in reply to HHI)
Post #: 40
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/3/2010 10:34:32 PM   
FM WarB

 

Posts: 292
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline 		What are the AI cheats at varying levels?

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 41
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/6/2010 1:27:16 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		Again, instead of the AI cheating, change the value of the victory locations.

If for the human player a VL is worth 30 points then for the AI it could be worth 45 points.

-

(in reply to FM WarB)
Post #: 42
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/6/2010 2:51:59 AM   
Sabre21


Posts: 8231
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: on a mountain in Idaho
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FM WarB

What are the AI cheats at varying levels?


There are game options that affect morale, logistics, admin points, # of trucks, and fortification capability. If you select challenging level, yours will be lower and the ai will be a bit higher. The disparity increases as the level gets harder. If playing against a human on challenging, the game sets both sides to the lower levels, but you can manually enter values and change these default settings to give one human player or the other a handicap.

As for the exact modifiers per level right now, that is still in the works and has recently been tweaked again.

Andy

_____________________________


(in reply to FM WarB)
Post #: 43
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/7/2010 12:26:35 PM   
demyansk


Posts: 2840
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline 		I would like to see in the game an ability to find players easily for an online or pbem game. I look at the screen shots and the game looks real good. I am sure it will be a decent AI and of course no replacement for a human player. I play humans on email and usually have to change all my tactics compared to when i play the computer.

(in reply to Sabre21)
Post #: 44
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/7/2010 5:03:27 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: demjansk

I would like to see in the game an ability to find players easily for an online or pbem game. I look at the screen shots and the game looks real good. I am sure it will be a decent AI and of course no replacement for a human player. I play humans on email and usually have to change all my tactics compared to when i play the computer.


This game will not have an online option, but finding PBEM opponents should not be a problem as you can post in this forum to find an opponent. I think they'll be plenty of people posting here for opponents.

(in reply to demyansk)
Post #: 45
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/9/2010 12:13:58 AM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		Its snowing, and the Axis AI (or Mr. AI) surprised me with this move with his panzers in the swamp to cut off one of my Rifle Corps and one rifle division and I thought I'd show this.



I'll be able to break them out but I was impressed that the AI was 'thinking' of the welfare of my riflemen.


< Message edited by dlazov66 -- 4/9/2010 12:15:09 AM >

_____________________________


Beta Tester for:
Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm
War in the East 1 & 2
WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific
Valor & Victory
DG CWIE 2
SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 46
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/9/2010 4:08:05 AM   
mmarquo


Posts: 1376
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline 		"There are several different levels of difficulty."

This can only mean different handicaps for the human player; the AI can not be expected to function at different levels of intelligence - not for the price of a commercial wargame. IMHO it is a misdirection of time and effort trying to develop truly challenging AI capability for a game such as this; better to spend the time on perfecting the OOB and attention to historical detail as well game mechanics. There will be plenty of opportunity to find PBEM opponents; maybe better will be live H2H capability.

(in reply to Josh)
Post #: 47
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/9/2010 4:10:18 AM   
mmarquo


Posts: 1376
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline 		BTW - is there a rule that if the snow melts that the panzers in the swamp are sunk???

(in reply to mmarquo)
Post #: 48
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/9/2010 8:33:08 AM   
Wild


Posts: 364
Joined: 12/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

"There are several different levels of difficulty."

This can only mean different handicaps for the human player; the AI can not be expected to function at different levels of intelligence - not for the price of a commercial wargame. IMHO it is a misdirection of time and effort trying to develop truly challenging AI capability for a game such as this; better to spend the time on perfecting the OOB and attention to historical detail as well game mechanics. There will be plenty of opportunity to find PBEM opponents; maybe better will be live H2H capability.



It is not a waste of time or resources to create the best AI possible for this game.
Many people (perhaps most) will play only against the AI,due to time constraints,personal preferance etc.
I myself am an AI only wargamer and value the competence of the AI only slightly below historical accurracy.
To achieve maximum sales i would put a very high focus on the AI.

(in reply to mmarquo)
Post #: 49
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/9/2010 10:42:56 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

BTW - is there a rule that if the snow melts that the panzers in the swamp are sunk???


They are not stuck, they would move at the regular swamp MP rate which for mech is 6 MP's per hex.

_____________________________

We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

WitE alpha/beta tester
Sanctus Reach beta tester
Desert War 1940-42 beta tester

(in reply to mmarquo)
Post #: 50
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/9/2010 10:45:45 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

...IMHO it is a misdirection of time and effort trying to develop truly challenging AI capability for a game such as this; better to spend the time on perfecting the OOB and attention to historical detail as well game mechanics...



The people working on the OOB and historical accuracy are not the same people doing the AI testing. Both areas are getting a lot of attention. As such we are trying to achieve accurate history and a challenging AI.


_____________________________

We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

WitE alpha/beta tester
Sanctus Reach beta tester
Desert War 1940-42 beta tester

(in reply to mmarquo)
Post #: 51
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/9/2010 11:17:42 AM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		As a newly appointed tester I can assure you that you will be blown away by the amount of historical detail in the game. Poor Joel is having to fight us off as we are asking for even more minute details to be included, so inevitably there will be some compromises for the sake of playability.

With regards to the AI, I can say that this AI does things I have never seen in any WWII PC wargame, and I have played them all, going back to the original SSI War in Russia in 198something. It knows when it is going to be encircled, it puts together vicious attacks to break into encirclements, and you are going to dread the Soviets' first winter offensive as much as the original participants did - in my first game Army Group South was shattered within 4 weeks.

_____________________________

It's only a Game


(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 52
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/9/2010 11:31:20 PM   
mmarquo


Posts: 1376
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline 		>It is not a waste of time or resources to create the best AI possible for this game.

For the price of a commercial wargame, the AI will not be logically challenging. There may be internal "reequilibrations" to make the AI more effective (inflicts more posses, takes less losses per equivalent combat than the human side) but it will not be smart, intelligent, teachable and it will not think. It's patterns will become quickly apparent and will not vary. IMHO it is a much better use of programmers' and testers' resources and time to make sure that the internal mechanics all work well (no bugs); the testers can play each other.

I am excited at the prospect of playing this game...against a human either H2H, PBEM or LAN. Anybody who reads and answers these posts is not so isolated that they can't also play against a human .

Marquo

(in reply to karonagames)
Post #: 53
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/10/2010 6:35:23 AM   
Wild


Posts: 364
Joined: 12/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

>It is not a waste of time or resources to create the best AI possible for this game.

For the price of a commercial wargame, the AI will not be logically challenging. There may be internal "reequilibrations" to make the AI more effective (inflicts more posses, takes less losses per equivalent combat than the human side) but it will not be smart, intelligent, teachable and it will not think. It's patterns will become quickly apparent and will not vary. IMHO it is a much better use of programmers' and testers' resources and time to make sure that the internal mechanics all work well (no bugs); the testers can play each other.

I am excited at the prospect of playing this game...against a human either H2H, PBEM or LAN. Anybody who reads and answers these posts is not so isolated that they can't also play against a human .

Marquo


Of course there is a limit to what is possible with the AI.It will never match a human player.I stated in my post that they should try to make the best AI possible for the game.I don't expect it will be perfect.

I find your response very patronizing to AI players.It has nothing to do with isolation.It has to do with time constraints and personal preference.

When someone pays good money for a game he should not be told the manner he enjoys playing it is a waste of time and to find a human player.


< Message edited by Wild -- 4/10/2010 6:38:14 AM >

(in reply to mmarquo)
Post #: 54
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/10/2010 7:16:03 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Guys, just this week, we had 3 changes in AI behavior...It is a big deal to us, as someone said 90% of players will play agianst it only...Its already, as a old WIR ace, ten times better than that was, and getting better by the week. So hold on to your hats, then tell me later when you sit in this seat...lol...

_____________________________

Jon Pyle
AWD Beta tester
WBTS Alpha tester
WitE Alpha tester
WitW Alpha tester
WitE2 Alpha tester

(in reply to Wild)
Post #: 55
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/10/2010 7:37:58 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Another note, we have a very balanced test team. Really, though being small, they bring a magnatude of information (from around the world). You will find this to be to be the best buy you ever get...Please hold your judgments until you put your hands on it...Just look in the mean time in ahh...And enjoy...

_____________________________

Jon Pyle
AWD Beta tester
WBTS Alpha tester
WitE Alpha tester
WitW Alpha tester
WitE2 Alpha tester

(in reply to PyleDriver)
Post #: 56
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/10/2010 7:47:09 AM   
wurger54

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Wow! For the sake of all those that do that sort of thing, I hope the AI is competent enough to make you feel like Adolf when you thrash it. I'm in California, we tolerate everybody's preferences. Other than learning the game mechanics, I don't get it. Nothing beats humiliating a human opponant. I do hope not one extra second is spent developing the AI. I've got breathing opponants chomping at the bit to get to thrashing. Then again, this is my hobby, not my living. Matrix must cater to the masses.

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 57
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/10/2010 7:51:44 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		We have both the AI, PBEM and historical covered. We really are focused...Trust Gary and Joel, and the rest of us...Please...

_____________________________

Jon Pyle
AWD Beta tester
WBTS Alpha tester
WitE Alpha tester
WitW Alpha tester
WitE2 Alpha tester

(in reply to wurger54)
Post #: 58
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/10/2010 8:33:22 AM   
Wild


Posts: 364
Joined: 12/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

We have both the AI, PBEM and historical covered. We really are focused...Trust Gary and Joel, and the rest of us...Please...


Thanks PyleDriver. I appreciate all the hard work the testers have done.

I absolutley trust Gary and Joel to get this game right. Having played many(most) of their games i can say in all honesty that they are the best games i've ever played.

I just get a little frustrated when the PBEM only crowd tries to prevent improvement on the AI side of things. The same thing happened on the WitP forums.
I think this game is big enough for everbody to be able to play it the way they wish to.

Once again thanks for all your efforts.

(in reply to PyleDriver)
Post #: 59
RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? - 4/10/2010 12:28:44 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		I will be playing against the AI....the only wargame I PBEM is Squad Battles...I don't begrudge it has an AI as I know many will enjoy the game that haven't the confidence to go join a league...even though I know the game comes to life PBEM.

Also some people will learn how to play the game against the AI and when they feel confident enough may well take the plunge and go PBEM. I may be one of those people. My ability at this level is very poor and I loose even against the AI in games all the time.

I find it typical of how self centered people are these days to only think of themselves.

This game should have as good an AI as they possibly can build...

So what if some of you will PBEM and not the AI...many here will play the AI and not PBEM....so we will all have to wait to get a chance to play it.

Live at let live...I really don't think the game will suffer in any respect and will be a great product for you anti AI people aswell as those who want an AI.

_____________________________

My website


https://www.awargamersneedfulthings.co.uk/

(in reply to Wild)
Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> RE: Honestly How Competant Will the AI be this time ? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

2.531