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Invasion TF Composition ... - 4/20/2010 6:33:42 PM

minnowguy

Posts: 85
Joined: 7/12/2005
From: St Louis
Status: offline

How does everybody configure their Amphibious task forces for an invasion? Do you have a standard organization or do it differently every time. I've been doing it on an ad-hoc basis, but was thinking about setting up some semi-permanent invasion task forces, each optimized for -- say -- one division plus a couple of independent artillery units.

_Hell to Pay_ indicates that the standard late-war divisional PhibGrp was 1xAGC, 14xAPA, 6xAKA (and the Pacific Fleet had 14!! of these). Apparently enough LSTs were attached per operation to land a couple of independent armor battalions with each division.

I know that the Navy used a Task Force/Task Group/Task Unit hierarchy in WW2, so an invasion TF might consist of one or more landing TGs, an escort TG, and possibly a bombardment TG and/or an air TG. We can't do this in AE, but the "follow" order lets us get pretty close.

Any thoughts?

Post #: 1

RE: Invasion TF Composition ... - 4/20/2010 7:13:34 PM

Grit

Posts: 142
Joined: 4/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: minnowguy

I know that the Navy used a Task Force/Task Group/Task Unit hierarchy in WW2, so an invasion TF might consist of one or more landing TGs, an escort TG, and possibly a bombardment TG and/or an air TG. We can't do this in AE, but the "follow" order lets us get pretty close.

I would love to hear what TF's experienced players include on a large amphibious invasion.

< Message edited by Grit -- 4/20/2010 7:17:53 PM >

(in reply to minnowguy)

Post #: 2

RE: Invasion TF Composition ... - 4/21/2010 6:40:16 AM

Barb

Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline

IRL there was one transport division consisting of 3xAPA and 1xAKA for each regiment carried (AKA for heavy stuff I presume), each assaulting regiment had his own LSTs carrying Amphibious tractor battalion. Additional LSTs carried Artillery, Armor, engineer buldozers and such things.

Difference between the reality and game is that you probably can load regiment into 2-3 assault ships and you dont need LSTs to carry Amphtrac battalions. So you could pack your division to some 8xAPA and 4xAKA plus few (say 3-5) LSTs for separate tanks, artillery and other units.

IRL Naval Fire support for a infantry Bn was DD. For Regiment landing in 2-1 configuration there will probably be 2 DDs and 1 CL, for Division landing in 2-1 configuration (with regiments landing too 2-1) there will be 4 DDs, 2CLs and CA/BB - included directly in the amphibious task force.

If you are landing a Division in one wave (as usual in game), you should have 9-12DDs,3-4 CLs,1-3CA/BBs.

Additional naval fire support is up to you.

_____________________________

(in reply to Grit)

Post #: 3

RE: Invasion TF Composition ... - 4/22/2010 12:13:33 AM

jimh009

Posts: 368
Joined: 5/15/2005
Status: offline

I don't have any hard-set rules, as much depends on what ships are available, what you're taking and where you're assaulting. However, I tend to try to do something like this for EACH amphibious ASSAULT force (note, follow-on forces will have different makeups).

For One Division + other assault units

- 6-8 AP's or APA's and 2-3 AK's or AKA's (for a typical division)
- 4-5 LST's per tank unit
- 2-3 LST's for each artillery/flak unit

Typically, my "first ashore" assault force [which you can ensure actually assaults first by naming your task forces], consists of a high-quality division, another smaller land unit (such as Marine Raiders or Army Regiment or Combat Engineer Unit), 1-2 tank units, 1-2 artillery units.

The key thing to remember is that you want your first wave of assault forces to be unloaded ASAP. Thus, you can certainly fit your men and supplies into far fewer ships. But when assaulting a heavily defended hex, you want your stuff out fast.

Typically, all these amphibious ships will be in a amphib TF that also consists of a CA or CL, 4-6 DD's and some MSW's. The goal here is to have the shore guns engage the surface vessels, not the amphibious ships.

(in reply to Barb)

Post #: 4

RE: Invasion TF Composition ... - 4/22/2010 1:00:23 AM

minnowguy

Posts: 85
Joined: 7/12/2005
From: St Louis
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jimh009

Typically, my "first ashore" assault force [which you can ensure actually assaults first by naming your task forces], consists of a high-quality division, another smaller land unit (such as Marine Raiders or Army Regiment or Combat Engineer Unit), 1-2 tank units, 1-2 artillery units.

How does naming the TFs help?

(in reply to jimh009)

Post #: 5

RE: Invasion TF Composition ... - 4/23/2010 12:25:29 AM

jimh009

Posts: 368
Joined: 5/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: minnowguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: jimh009

Typically, my "first ashore" assault force [which you can ensure actually assaults first by naming your task forces], consists of a high-quality division, another smaller land unit (such as Marine Raiders or Army Regiment or Combat Engineer Unit), 1-2 tank units, 1-2 artillery units.

How does naming the TFs help?

The earliest numbered or named task force is the first to assault. Thus, if you have two Amphib TF's (TF 101 and TF 102), the TF 101 will always invade first.

So what you do with your amphib TF's is to change their name. For an example, in one of my games I had five amphibious TF's carrying 5 divisions, plus tanks, artillery, HQ, etc.... I named my TF's the following way.

Saipan Assault 1
Saipan Assault 2
Saipan Assault 3
Saipan Assault 4
Saipan Assault 5

In the Assault 1 TF, I had my very best units. In the Assault 5 TF, I had the worse units plus the HQ unit.

(in reply to minnowguy)

Post #: 6

RE: Invasion TF Composition ... - 4/23/2010 1:53:54 AM

minnowguy

Posts: 85
Joined: 7/12/2005
From: St Louis
Status: offline

Great info! Thanks.

(in reply to jimh009)

Post #: 7

RE: Invasion TF Composition ... - 4/23/2010 1:55:17 AM

bigred

Posts: 3599
Joined: 12/27/2007
Status: offline

What would you recommend for mid/late 42 as an allied counter force to invade and retake an oportunistic target knowing the KB is "very"busy elsewhere?

(in reply to jimh009)

Post #: 8

RE: Invasion TF Composition ... - 4/23/2010 4:59:13 AM

seydlitz_slith

Posts: 2036
Joined: 6/16/2002
From: Danville, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jimh009

I don't have any hard-set rules, as much depends on what ships are available, what you're taking and where you're assaulting. However, I tend to try to do something like this for EACH amphibious ASSAULT force (note, follow-on forces will have different makeups).

For One Division + other assault units

- 6-8 AP's or APA's and 2-3 AK's or AKA's (for a typical division)
- 4-5 LST's per tank unit
- 2-3 LST's for each artillery/flak unit

Typically, my "first ashore" assault force [which you can ensure actually assaults first by naming your task forces], consists of a high-quality division, another smaller land unit (such as Marine Raiders or Army Regiment or Combat Engineer Unit), 1-2 tank units, 1-2 artillery units.

The key thing to remember is that you want your first wave of assault forces to be unloaded ASAP. Thus, you can certainly fit your men and supplies into far fewer ships. But when assaulting a heavily defended hex, you want your stuff out fast.

Typically, all these amphibious ships will be in a amphib TF that also consists of a CA or CL, 4-6 DD's and some MSW's. The goal here is to have the shore guns engage the surface vessels, not the amphibious ships.

Just a word of warning....
after patch 3 the CD gun routine is doing absurd amounts of damage to warships in the amphibious task forces. I have lost 4 battleships, 2 heavy cruisers, and 6 DDs in two seperate combats against CD defenses containing only 6" guns and smaller. Others are reporting similar issues.
Oddly enough, amphib task forces containing ships smaller than DD are not suffering heavy damage.

(in reply to jimh009)

Post #: 9

RE: Invasion TF Composition ... - 4/23/2010 12:18:36 PM

Grit

Posts: 142
Joined: 4/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jimh009

quote:

ORIGINAL: minnowguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: jimh009

Typically, my "first ashore" assault force [which you can ensure actually assaults first by naming your task forces], consists of a high-quality division, another smaller land unit (such as Marine Raiders or Army Regiment or Combat Engineer Unit), 1-2 tank units, 1-2 artillery units.

How does naming the TFs help?

The earliest numbered or named task force is the first to assault. Thus, if you have two Amphib TF's (TF 101 and TF 102), the TF 101 will always invade first.

So what you do with your amphib TF's is to change their name. For an example, in one of my games I had five amphibious TF's carrying 5 divisions, plus tanks, artillery, HQ, etc.... I named my TF's the following way.

Saipan Assault 1
Saipan Assault 2
Saipan Assault 3
Saipan Assault 4
Saipan Assault 5

In the Assault 1 TF, I had my very best units. In the Assault 5 TF, I had the worse units plus the HQ unit.

Great stuff.

This turned out to be a really good thread for us new guys. Thanks everyone.

_____________________________

(in reply to jimh009)

Post #: 10

RE: Invasion TF Composition ... - 4/24/2010 4:27:56 PM

jimh009

Posts: 368
Joined: 5/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

What would you recommend for mid/late 42 as an allied counter force to invade and retake an oportunistic target knowing the KB is "very"busy elsewhere?

It depends, obviously, on what you want to take (very small island, small island, or normal land hex). But, let's assume you want to take an atoll (very small island with 6K stacking limit).

An "ideal" invasion force for an atoll I've found is:

1-2 Tank Units
1 Artillery Unit
1 Marine Infantry Regiment
1 Marine Raider/Parachute unit
1 Marine Infantry Regiment (held in reserve and NOT unloaded in assault wave)

This invasion force is above the stacking limit, which is normal for assault forces. However, it isn't so far above the stacking limit that you'll run into major problems.

When invading an atoll, do NOT unload any support units in the initial assault - doing so will greatly overstack your units, causing problems. Make absolutely sure that the assault units have been planning for the invasion for at least 70 days - anything under 50 is a recipe for massive losses.

I put my assault forces for atolls into two amphib TF's, although putting everything in one will work too. Be sure to bombard/bomb the island for at least 1-2 days (three is preferable).

(in reply to bigred)

Post #: 11