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- 7/18/2002 9:27:29 AM   
DSandberg

 

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Thanks Mike Wood for your elaboration on the details of the level bombers issue. I (and others I'm sure) really appreciate the thought and effort that you, Gary and the team have put into addressing this issue. Can't wait for the patch!

- David

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- 7/18/2002 2:31:25 PM   
Maniac

 

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Alright I got a question...so when you skip bomb are you going to take a huge hit in the morale area? because level bombers that go below 5000 feet you say will suffer a morale hit...did bomber crews really have sever morale hits from doing skip bomb runs in the war? maybe for more expeirenced crews they morale hit should be decreased? becuase if the morale hit is fairly severe than skip bombing may not be as effective as it should...just some speculation of mine

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Post #: 32
- 7/19/2002 12:19:16 AM   
HMSWarspite

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Maniac
[B]Alright I got a question...so when you skip bomb are you going to take a huge hit in the morale area? because level bombers that go below 5000 feet you say will suffer a morale hit...did bomber crews really have sever morale hits from doing skip bomb runs in the war? maybe for more expeirenced crews they morale hit should be decreased? becuase if the morale hit is fairly severe than skip bombing may not be as effective as it should...just some speculation of mine [/B][/QUOTE]

Don't know about you, but flying a big twin at 100ft like it was a fighter, and skip bombing targets that shoot back would lower my morale!:D

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Post #: 33
- 7/19/2002 1:26:12 AM   
kaleun

 

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Personally I think anybody skip bombing with a B17 is either nuts or has a HUGE pair of big brass ones. (And has tied up any sane member of the flight crew, and gagged them to muffle their screams of horror)
This guys had co****s.
K

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Post #: 34
Re: Whats Coming Very Soon in Patch v1.20 - 7/19/2002 1:34:45 AM   
Admiral DadMan


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by David Heath
[B]
...Here what you can expect very soon ( next 24-72 hours )... [/B][/QUOTE]Tick tock...:D

I'm teasing.

Kirk: "Mr. Scott, do you always modify your repair estimates by a factor of four?"

Scotty: "How else could I keep my reputation as a miracle worker?"

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Post #: 35
- 7/19/2002 5:10:28 AM   
Ron Saueracker


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I think the designers/developers have cofee intravenously pumped into their system. I don't think they sleep.:)

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Post #: 36
- 7/19/2002 5:11:33 AM   
Raverdave


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by HMSWarspite
[B]

Don't know about you, but flying a big twin at 100ft like it was a fighter, and skip bombing targets that shoot back would lower my morale!:D [/B][/QUOTE]

Infact this is one of the ways that the RAAF Beaufighters were used....beautiful looking aircraft btw. As a side note there are not many of these aircraft that have survied to this day. However there is an air museum here in Melbourne Aust that does have one on display. They sure knew how to build things of beauty in the 40's:)

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Post #: 37
- 7/19/2002 8:47:45 AM   
Jeremy Pritchard

 

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Unlike John Wayne movies, veterans are not hard-blooded and totally immune to the weariness of war. In fact, as the British in 1944 proved, sometimes being veteran of war might make you more cautious or prone to morale problems then green recruits. Actually, just saw a John Wayne movie about a bunch of veteran pilots (possilby during Guadalcanal, but they were using Hellcats... probably trying to pass off as Wildcats) were interceptors, but due to necessity were sent on close ground support missions, of which none of them wanted to take part in because of the danger.

Being constantly sent on dangerous missions will piss off even the most die-hard pilots. I am reading Catch-22 right now, which sort of resinates with this concept of veterans and morale. If you are unfamiliar with the book, I will reiterate points...

The Group Commander of a B-25 group in southern Italy has constantly raised the number of missions that a tour of duty runs whenever pilots get close to reaching this number. Currently in the book it is up to 60 missions (from an original 25). Virtually every pilot in the book is a hard veteran, however, they will do anything from changing the war map, faking illness and dropping their bombs in the ocean to avoid going over enemy territory. The more and more they are sent on dangerous missions, the more and more they become disenchanted with the war, and become less effective.

Veterans are probably worse at morale hits then raw recruits, primarily because they have been through so much already, they know full well how dangerous certain types of missions are, and are less inclined to be enthusiastic about participating in them. They may be more experienced in warfare, but this experience does not mean that it is easier for them to take part in difficult missions.

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Post #: 38
- 7/19/2002 10:03:28 AM   
Yamamoto

 

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Do only Allied level bombers have a chance to skip bomb or do both side's level bombers have that chance?

How are the allied ships anti-sub capabilities being improved? Rasing the accuracy for depth charges? Or something else? Is it just one side that's getting improved or are Japanese anti-sub capabilities being improved too?

Those two things concern me a bit; everything else looks great.

Yamamoto

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Post #: 39
The Smiths - 7/19/2002 10:11:53 AM   
dpstafford


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How soon is now?

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Post #: 40
se esta haciendo tarde - 7/19/2002 6:59:45 PM   
zed

 

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Dude,
where is my patch?

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Post #: 41
morale penaly below 5001 ft or below 5000 ft? - 7/19/2002 7:13:17 PM   
cverbrug


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This is just a technicality, but important when giving orders:

When does the new morale penalty applies for level bombers: is this from the moment you set a bombing altitude below 5001ft? Thus using 5000 gives you a penalty? Or is it just below 5000ft, so using 5000ft as bombing altitude does not give you a penalty?

Gallo

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Post #: 42
Patch schedule... - 7/19/2002 7:30:12 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Despite Dave's optimistic estimate (he was in a good mood that day), the patch is still being tested. We want to make sure that all the adjustments do in fact work as intended and to the proper degree. We've been getting good feedback from the testers and there will probably be one more round of adjustments before patch release.

I'm guessing early next week rather than this weekend. We'll get it out to you as soon as we're certain it's good. Then, it's back to the big bug-fixing patch... :eek:

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 43
Re: Patch schedule... - 7/19/2002 9:47:40 PM   
dpstafford


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Erik Rutins
[B]I'm guessing early next week rather than this weekend. We'll get it out to you as soon as we're certain it's good. Then, it's back to the big bug-fixing patch... :eek:
[/B][/QUOTE]
Bugs? What bugs?

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Post #: 44
thanks Eric - 7/19/2002 9:55:02 PM   
brisd


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Appreciate the update. Take as long as needed to play-test to satisfaction.

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Post #: 45
What is 'skip bombing'? - 7/20/2002 1:27:23 AM   
tobamore

 

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Pardon my ignorance, but I haven't got a clue! Please, someone explain?

T

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Post #: 46
Re: Patch schedule... - 7/20/2002 2:07:32 AM   
Huskalator

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Erik Rutins
[B]
I'm guessing early next week rather than this weekend.

[/B][/QUOTE]

ARGH! I was hopeing it would be ready by this weekend. I guess I will have to postpone my invasion of PM. The loss in transports from enemy B-17s and B-25s I will suffer is greater than the loss in time and enemy preparation.

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Post #: 47
Re: What is 'skip bombing'? - 7/20/2002 2:34:16 AM   
elmo3

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by tobamore
[B]Pardon my ignorance, but I haven't got a clue! Please, someone explain?

T [/B][/QUOTE]

"Search" is your friend. Use it to find the skip bombing threads.

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Post #: 48
Re: Whats Coming Very Soon in Patch v1.20 - 7/21/2002 1:15:22 AM   
dgaad

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by David Heath
[B]Hi Guys


21. The player is now notified by a text message on the lower left of the screen, when ships arrive in theatre, if playing against the computer or when the computer plays against itself

[/B][/QUOTE]

Okay, but what if the computer is playing aliens? Does it happen then?

[B][QUOTE]

22. Ships mixed in with PT boats are starting combat at closer range than they should. Fixed. Large ships can no longer sneak up on an enemy fleet by hiding amonst the PT boats. [/B][/QUOTE]

What?!!?!?!?!? How unfortunate. A really really good battleship captain can easily hide the profile of a battleship behind a ship 1/1000th its size. Especially with the "laser" [air quotes] [pinky finger extends and is placed near right corner of mouth]

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Post #: 49
Re: What is 'skip bombing'? - 7/21/2002 1:16:18 AM   
dgaad

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by tobamore
[B]Pardon my ignorance, but I haven't got a clue! Please, someone explain?

T [/B][/QUOTE]

Explain what?

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Post #: 50
- 7/21/2002 1:21:41 AM   
tobamore

 

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Well, what an extremely friendly and helpful group!:rolleyes:

I found my own answers via the net, thanks a lot guys. You really know how to welcome new users, should be proud.

T.

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Post #: 51
- 7/21/2002 2:45:55 AM   
elmo3

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by tobamore
[B]Well, what an extremely friendly and helpful group!:rolleyes:

I found my own answers via the net, thanks a lot guys. You really know how to welcome new users, should be proud.

T. [/B][/QUOTE]

You could have found your own answers righ here with the Search button too, just like I said. Not sure what more you want.

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Post #: 52
- 7/21/2002 2:53:23 AM   
strollen

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by tobamore
[B]Well, what an extremely friendly and helpful group!:rolleyes:

I found my own answers via the net, thanks a lot guys. You really know how to welcome new users, should be proud.

T. [/B][/QUOTE]


Actually we generally are a pretty friendly group. I guess Elmo and Dgaad were having bad UV day.

Skip bombing was the most deadly form of attack for level bomber in WWII (used by the 5th Airforce in late 42 and particularly in the battle of Bismark Sea in 3/43.)
In UV skip bombing is enabled by set bomber altitude to 100' Unfortunately skip bombing was basically broken in the first versions of UV. However, allied bombers set to bomb at 1,000 were very effective. This in turn started a classic grognard (i.e. anal rentative wargamer) debate about the historical accuracy of low level bombing.

The new patch should fix skip bombing and also tone down the effectiveness of allied low level bombing.

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Post #: 53
- 7/21/2002 3:59:50 AM   
tobamore

 

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Thank you Strollen for your reply, you have somewhat restored my faith in human nature.;) May your forces be victorious.:)

T.

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Post #: 54
dos centavos-estoy quejando - 7/22/2002 1:20:20 AM   
zed

 

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questions:
1- is 1K altitude skip bombing in this game? in future patch?
2- is training necessary for bomber groups, ie, in start of scenarios (may, 1942) did the bomber crews have sufficient expertise to pull it off?
the 38th and 90th bomb group practiced for 1 month on the S.S Pruth before bismark sea battle. I dont see UV demanding that level of expertise before allowing allied player to sink every IJN ship in solomon/coral sea with any bomber available(even Hudsons)

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Post #: 55
Re: dos centavos-estoy quejando - 7/22/2002 2:37:29 AM   
Spooky


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by zed
[B]questions:
1- is 1K altitude skip bombing in this game? in future patch?
2- is training necessary for bomber groups, ie, in start of scenarios (may, 1942) did the bomber crews have sufficient expertise to pull it off?
the 38th and 90th bomb group practiced for 1 month on the S.S Pruth before bismark sea battle. I dont see UV demanding that level of expertise before allowing allied player to sink every IJN ship in solomon/coral sea with any bomber available(even Hudsons) [/B][/QUOTE]

1- I think 100' will still be the altitude for skip bombing in this patch ... and in the future ones - why do you want to change this :confused:

2 - Skip bombing still needs high exp. bomber crews ... and it is not the case for US bomber crews in may 42 ... so no skip bombing at that time

Spooky

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Post #: 56
- 7/22/2002 4:47:09 AM   
elmo3

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by strollen
[B]


...I guess Elmo and Dgaad were having bad UV day.

...[/B][/QUOTE]

Can't speak for what dgaad had in mind with his answer but there was nothing wrong with mine. Somebody asked about skip bombing. Rather than repeat what was alredy posted here in several threads I told him to use the Search function. He ended up doing that elsewhere anyway so I can't see where there should be any complaint.

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Post #: 57
Re: dos centavos-estoy quejando - 7/22/2002 4:56:43 AM   
1089

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by zed
[B]questions:
1- is 1K altitude skip bombing in this game? in future patch?
2- is training necessary for bomber groups, ie, in start of scenarios (may, 1942) did the bomber crews have sufficient expertise to pull it off?
the 38th and 90th bomb group practiced for 1 month on the S.S Pruth before bismark sea battle. I dont see UV demanding that level of expertise before allowing allied player to sink every IJN ship in solomon/coral sea with any bomber available(even Hudsons) [/B][/QUOTE]

My two cents:

Wait until the patch comes out before continuing to complain about the effectiveness of level bombers.

Simplemente porque usted está quejándose en español, no lo hace cualquier más fácil para escucharlo.

kp

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Post #: 58
Re : Original Topic (vaguely) - 7/22/2002 6:14:28 AM   
Drongo

 

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Obviously wouldn't be considered for the next 2 patches but given how important torpedos are to sub effectiveness and for those players who micromanage subs, is there any chance that no of torpedo salvos remaining for a sub could appear against its entry in the task force screen rather than just its individual ship data screen? Having to check each individual sub's data screen when deciding who needs to return to base to rearm is a bit cumbersome at present.

Just hoping.

And if there is already a better way of doing this, go ahead, embaress me.

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Post #: 59
Re: Re : Original Topic (vaguely) - 7/22/2002 5:57:28 PM   
Raverdave


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Drongo
[B]Obviously wouldn't be considered for the next 2 patches but given how important torpedos are to sub effectiveness and for those players who micromanage subs, is there any chance that no of torpedo salvos remaining for a sub could appear against its entry in the task force screen rather than just its individual ship data screen? Having to check each individual sub's data screen when deciding who needs to return to base to rearm is a bit cumbersome at present.

Just hoping.

And if there is already a better way of doing this, go ahead, embaress me. [/B][/QUOTE]


I too am hoping for this, and also to be able to tell the subs what targets to attack....such as ONLY go for transports, don't bother with PGs etc etc.

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Post #: 60
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