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- 7/18/2002 9:27:29 AM   
DSandberg

 

Posts: 107
Joined: 6/19/2002
From: MN
Status: offline 		Thanks Mike Wood for your elaboration on the details of the level bombers issue. I (and others I'm sure) really appreciate the thought and effort that you, Gary and the team have put into addressing this issue. Can't wait for the patch!

- David

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Post #: 31
- 7/18/2002 2:31:25 PM   
Maniac

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 7/3/2002
From: Clovis California
Status: offline 		Alright I got a question...so when you skip bomb are you going to take a huge hit in the morale area? because level bombers that go below 5000 feet you say will suffer a morale hit...did bomber crews really have sever morale hits from doing skip bomb runs in the war? maybe for more expeirenced crews they morale hit should be decreased? becuase if the morale hit is fairly severe than skip bombing may not be as effective as it should...just some speculation of mine

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Post #: 32
- 7/19/2002 12:19:16 AM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Maniac
[B]Alright I got a question...so when you skip bomb are you going to take a huge hit in the morale area? because level bombers that go below 5000 feet you say will suffer a morale hit...did bomber crews really have sever morale hits from doing skip bomb runs in the war? maybe for more expeirenced crews they morale hit should be decreased? becuase if the morale hit is fairly severe than skip bombing may not be as effective as it should...just some speculation of mine [/B][/QUOTE]

Don't know about you, but flying a big twin at 100ft like it was a fighter, and skip bombing targets that shoot back would lower my morale!:D

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Post #: 33
- 7/19/2002 1:26:12 AM   
kaleun

 

Posts: 5145
Joined: 5/29/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		Personally I think anybody skip bombing with a B17 is either nuts or has a HUGE pair of big brass ones. (And has tied up any sane member of the flight crew, and gagged them to muffle their screams of horror)
This guys had co****s.
K

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Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you.
Sun Tzu

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Post #: 34
Re: Whats Coming Very Soon in Patch v1.20 - 7/19/2002 1:34:45 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by David Heath
[B]
...Here what you can expect very soon ( next 24-72 hours )... [/B][/QUOTE]Tick tock...:D

I'm teasing.

Kirk: "Mr. Scott, do you always modify your repair estimates by a factor of four?"

Scotty: "How else could I keep my reputation as a miracle worker?"

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Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
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CVB Langley:

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Post #: 35
- 7/19/2002 5:10:28 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		I think the designers/developers have cofee intravenously pumped into their system. I don't think they sleep.:)

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Post #: 36
- 7/19/2002 5:11:33 AM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by HMSWarspite
[B]

Don't know about you, but flying a big twin at 100ft like it was a fighter, and skip bombing targets that shoot back would lower my morale!:D [/B][/QUOTE]

Infact this is one of the ways that the RAAF Beaufighters were used....beautiful looking aircraft btw. As a side note there are not many of these aircraft that have survied to this day. However there is an air museum here in Melbourne Aust that does have one on display. They sure knew how to build things of beauty in the 40's:)

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Post #: 37
- 7/19/2002 8:47:45 AM   
Jeremy Pritchard

 

Posts: 588
Joined: 9/27/2001
From: Ontario Canada
Status: offline 		Unlike John Wayne movies, veterans are not hard-blooded and totally immune to the weariness of war. In fact, as the British in 1944 proved, sometimes being veteran of war might make you more cautious or prone to morale problems then green recruits. Actually, just saw a John Wayne movie about a bunch of veteran pilots (possilby during Guadalcanal, but they were using Hellcats... probably trying to pass off as Wildcats) were interceptors, but due to necessity were sent on close ground support missions, of which none of them wanted to take part in because of the danger.

Being constantly sent on dangerous missions will piss off even the most die-hard pilots. I am reading Catch-22 right now, which sort of resinates with this concept of veterans and morale. If you are unfamiliar with the book, I will reiterate points...

The Group Commander of a B-25 group in southern Italy has constantly raised the number of missions that a tour of duty runs whenever pilots get close to reaching this number. Currently in the book it is up to 60 missions (from an original 25). Virtually every pilot in the book is a hard veteran, however, they will do anything from changing the war map, faking illness and dropping their bombs in the ocean to avoid going over enemy territory. The more and more they are sent on dangerous missions, the more and more they become disenchanted with the war, and become less effective.

Veterans are probably worse at morale hits then raw recruits, primarily because they have been through so much already, they know full well how dangerous certain types of missions are, and are less inclined to be enthusiastic about participating in them. They may be more experienced in warfare, but this experience does not mean that it is easier for them to take part in difficult missions.

(in reply to David Heath)
Post #: 38
- 7/19/2002 10:03:28 AM   
Yamamoto

 

Posts: 743
Joined: 11/21/2001
From: Miami, Fl. U.S.A.
Status: offline 		Do only Allied level bombers have a chance to skip bomb or do both side's level bombers have that chance?

How are the allied ships anti-sub capabilities being improved? Rasing the accuracy for depth charges? Or something else? Is it just one side that's getting improved or are Japanese anti-sub capabilities being improved too?

Those two things concern me a bit; everything else looks great.

Yamamoto

(in reply to David Heath)
Post #: 39
The Smiths - 7/19/2002 10:11:53 AM   
dpstafford


Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
Status: offline 		How soon is now?

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Post #: 40
se esta haciendo tarde - 7/19/2002 6:59:45 PM   
zed

 

Posts: 268
Joined: 5/20/2002
Status: offline 		Dude,
where is my patch?

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Post #: 41
morale penaly below 5001 ft or below 5000 ft? - 7/19/2002 7:13:17 PM   
cverbrug


Posts: 233
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Belgium
Status: offline 		This is just a technicality, but important when giving orders:

When does the new morale penalty applies for level bombers: is this from the moment you set a bombing altitude below 5001ft? Thus using 5000 gives you a penalty? Or is it just below 5000ft, so using 5000ft as bombing altitude does not give you a penalty?

Gallo

(in reply to David Heath)
Post #: 42
Patch schedule... - 7/19/2002 7:30:12 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Despite Dave's optimistic estimate (he was in a good mood that day), the patch is still being tested. We want to make sure that all the adjustments do in fact work as intended and to the proper degree. We've been getting good feedback from the testers and there will probably be one more round of adjustments before patch release.

I'm guessing early next week rather than this weekend. We'll get it out to you as soon as we're certain it's good. Then, it's back to the big bug-fixing patch... :eek:

Regards,

- Erik

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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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Post #: 43
Re: Patch schedule... - 7/19/2002 9:47:40 PM   
dpstafford


Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Erik Rutins
[B]I'm guessing early next week rather than this weekend. We'll get it out to you as soon as we're certain it's good. Then, it's back to the big bug-fixing patch... :eek:
[/B][/QUOTE]
Bugs? What bugs?

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Post #: 44
thanks Eric - 7/19/2002 9:55:02 PM   
brisd


Posts: 614
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: San Diego, CA
Status: offline 		Appreciate the update. Take as long as needed to play-test to satisfaction.

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Post #: 45
What is 'skip bombing'? - 7/20/2002 1:27:23 AM   
tobamore

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: UK
Status: offline 		Pardon my ignorance, but I haven't got a clue! Please, someone explain?

T

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Post #: 46
Re: Patch schedule... - 7/20/2002 2:07:32 AM   
Huskalator

 

Posts: 212
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Erik Rutins
[B]
I'm guessing early next week rather than this weekend.

[/B][/QUOTE]

ARGH! I was hopeing it would be ready by this weekend. I guess I will have to postpone my invasion of PM. The loss in transports from enemy B-17s and B-25s I will suffer is greater than the loss in time and enemy preparation.

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Post #: 47
Re: What is 'skip bombing'? - 7/20/2002 2:34:16 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by tobamore
[B]Pardon my ignorance, but I haven't got a clue! Please, someone explain?

T [/B][/QUOTE]

"Search" is your friend. Use it to find the skip bombing threads.

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Post #: 48
Re: Whats Coming Very Soon in Patch v1.20 - 7/21/2002 1:15:22 AM   
dgaad

 

Posts: 864
Joined: 7/25/2001
From: Hockeytown
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by David Heath
[B]Hi Guys


21. The player is now notified by a text message on the lower left of the screen, when ships arrive in theatre, if playing against the computer or when the computer plays against itself

[/B][/QUOTE]

Okay, but what if the computer is playing aliens? Does it happen then?

[B][QUOTE]

22. Ships mixed in with PT boats are starting combat at closer range than they should. Fixed. Large ships can no longer sneak up on an enemy fleet by hiding amonst the PT boats. [/B][/QUOTE]

What?!!?!?!?!? How unfortunate. A really really good battleship captain can easily hide the profile of a battleship behind a ship 1/1000th its size. Especially with the "laser" [air quotes] [pinky finger extends and is placed near right corner of mouth]

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Last time I checked, the forums were messed up. ;)

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Post #: 49
Re: What is 'skip bombing'? - 7/21/2002 1:16:18 AM   
dgaad

 

Posts: 864
Joined: 7/25/2001
From: Hockeytown
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by tobamore
[B]Pardon my ignorance, but I haven't got a clue! Please, someone explain?

T [/B][/QUOTE]

Explain what?

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Last time I checked, the forums were messed up. ;)

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Post #: 50
- 7/21/2002 1:21:41 AM   
tobamore

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: UK
Status: offline 		Well, what an extremely friendly and helpful group!:rolleyes:

I found my own answers via the net, thanks a lot guys. You really know how to welcome new users, should be proud.

T.

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Post #: 51
- 7/21/2002 2:45:55 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by tobamore
[B]Well, what an extremely friendly and helpful group!:rolleyes:

I found my own answers via the net, thanks a lot guys. You really know how to welcome new users, should be proud.

T. [/B][/QUOTE]

You could have found your own answers righ here with the Search button too, just like I said. Not sure what more you want.

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Post #: 52
- 7/21/2002 2:53:23 AM   
strollen

 

Posts: 159
Joined: 5/18/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by tobamore
[B]Well, what an extremely friendly and helpful group!:rolleyes:

I found my own answers via the net, thanks a lot guys. You really know how to welcome new users, should be proud.

T. [/B][/QUOTE]


Actually we generally are a pretty friendly group. I guess Elmo and Dgaad were having bad UV day.

Skip bombing was the most deadly form of attack for level bomber in WWII (used by the 5th Airforce in late 42 and particularly in the battle of Bismark Sea in 3/43.)
In UV skip bombing is enabled by set bomber altitude to 100' Unfortunately skip bombing was basically broken in the first versions of UV. However, allied bombers set to bomb at 1,000 were very effective. This in turn started a classic grognard (i.e. anal rentative wargamer) debate about the historical accuracy of low level bombing.

The new patch should fix skip bombing and also tone down the effectiveness of allied low level bombing.

(in reply to David Heath)
Post #: 53
- 7/21/2002 3:59:50 AM   
tobamore

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: UK
Status: offline 		Thank you Strollen for your reply, you have somewhat restored my faith in human nature.;) May your forces be victorious.:)

T.

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Post #: 54
dos centavos-estoy quejando - 7/22/2002 1:20:20 AM   
zed

 

Posts: 268
Joined: 5/20/2002
Status: offline 		questions:
1- is 1K altitude skip bombing in this game? in future patch?
2- is training necessary for bomber groups, ie, in start of scenarios (may, 1942) did the bomber crews have sufficient expertise to pull it off?
the 38th and 90th bomb group practiced for 1 month on the S.S Pruth before bismark sea battle. I dont see UV demanding that level of expertise before allowing allied player to sink every IJN ship in solomon/coral sea with any bomber available(even Hudsons)

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Post #: 55
Re: dos centavos-estoy quejando - 7/22/2002 2:37:29 AM   
Spooky


Posts: 816
Joined: 4/1/2002
From: Froggy Land
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by zed
[B]questions:
1- is 1K altitude skip bombing in this game? in future patch?
2- is training necessary for bomber groups, ie, in start of scenarios (may, 1942) did the bomber crews have sufficient expertise to pull it off?
the 38th and 90th bomb group practiced for 1 month on the S.S Pruth before bismark sea battle. I dont see UV demanding that level of expertise before allowing allied player to sink every IJN ship in solomon/coral sea with any bomber available(even Hudsons) [/B][/QUOTE]

1- I think 100' will still be the altitude for skip bombing in this patch ... and in the future ones - why do you want to change this :confused:

2 - Skip bombing still needs high exp. bomber crews ... and it is not the case for US bomber crews in may 42 ... so no skip bombing at that time

Spooky

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Post #: 56
- 7/22/2002 4:47:09 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by strollen
[B]


...I guess Elmo and Dgaad were having bad UV day.

...[/B][/QUOTE]

Can't speak for what dgaad had in mind with his answer but there was nothing wrong with mine. Somebody asked about skip bombing. Rather than repeat what was alredy posted here in several threads I told him to use the Search function. He ended up doing that elsewhere anyway so I can't see where there should be any complaint.

(in reply to David Heath)
Post #: 57
Re: dos centavos-estoy quejando - 7/22/2002 4:56:43 AM   
1089

 

Posts: 210
Joined: 7/4/2001
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by zed
[B]questions:
1- is 1K altitude skip bombing in this game? in future patch?
2- is training necessary for bomber groups, ie, in start of scenarios (may, 1942) did the bomber crews have sufficient expertise to pull it off?
the 38th and 90th bomb group practiced for 1 month on the S.S Pruth before bismark sea battle. I dont see UV demanding that level of expertise before allowing allied player to sink every IJN ship in solomon/coral sea with any bomber available(even Hudsons) [/B][/QUOTE]

My two cents:

Wait until the patch comes out before continuing to complain about the effectiveness of level bombers.

Simplemente porque usted está quejándose en español, no lo hace cualquier más fácil para escucharlo.

kp

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Post #: 58
Re : Original Topic (vaguely) - 7/22/2002 6:14:28 AM   
Drongo

 

Posts: 2205
Joined: 7/12/2002
From: Melb. Oztralia
Status: offline 		Obviously wouldn't be considered for the next 2 patches but given how important torpedos are to sub effectiveness and for those players who micromanage subs, is there any chance that no of torpedo salvos remaining for a sub could appear against its entry in the task force screen rather than just its individual ship data screen? Having to check each individual sub's data screen when deciding who needs to return to base to rearm is a bit cumbersome at present.

Just hoping.

And if there is already a better way of doing this, go ahead, embaress me.

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drink more beer.

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Post #: 59
Re: Re : Original Topic (vaguely) - 7/22/2002 5:57:28 PM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Drongo
[B]Obviously wouldn't be considered for the next 2 patches but given how important torpedos are to sub effectiveness and for those players who micromanage subs, is there any chance that no of torpedo salvos remaining for a sub could appear against its entry in the task force screen rather than just its individual ship data screen? Having to check each individual sub's data screen when deciding who needs to return to base to rearm is a bit cumbersome at present.

Just hoping.

And if there is already a better way of doing this, go ahead, embaress me. [/B][/QUOTE]


I too am hoping for this, and also to be able to tell the subs what targets to attack....such as ONLY go for transports, don't bother with PGs etc etc.

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Post #: 60
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